Not By Works

dcontroversal · Jun 17, 2017

Actually I have and is proven by the multitudes of verses that speak to our justification, salvation, positioning of grace etc. that are found in Christ...it is you dude that lives in fantasy land while denying scripture, taking verses out of context and blind to the truth.....the day you find out that you were wrong and then realize your destiny is sealed is when you find yourself before the throne boasting of your works, sinless fairytale and then getting denied and cast.....tragic day for you pal....I suggest you trust ..yea actually trust JESUS before it is too late...

willybob said:

He cant Fran, because it was invented by deceived men during the reformation, and not found anywhere in the text. After 500 years positional-ism has now been magnified to its greatest level of heresy today by apostates like Billy Graham, Erwin Lucer and a plethora of others...However, all the bible implies, presupposes, and declares, is manifest reality, (in other words faith proven by deeds). One is justified and sanctified by God after coming clean with Him in repentance, whereas all the guile and rebellion have been removed from the heart, and is now a vessel made fit for the Masters use. He/she may not know much, but the wilful vile sins of the flesh have ceased in the baptism of repentance..And the cup maybe small in the beginning, l but it is overflowing with the fountains of living water. Then as we grow in the word we add to our faith the virtues of the Spirit through grace with such things as temperance, knowledge, patience, godliness, and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 Peter 1:5-8.....Therefore, advancing onward to Christian maturity, "teleos" (perfection). But if one is abiding faithfully in Christ, his cup is always overflowing, no matter the size of the vessel, and the cup becomes larger as the virtues of the Spirit increase for the purpose of containing these godly ways that are dispensed upon him/her through the Spirit of grace..

.The false prophets somehow have it backwards, and perceive that it was God that plucked out his own eye and cant see you as you are. as if He is a clown playing peek-aboo with sinners pretending He cant see them in their sin, and somehow passes over them and declares them righteous while they are sill unrighteous. That might be the stupidest philosophy Ive ever heard of. Only the flesh could invent such folly... whereas we are the ones who are told to pluck out the minds eyes of lust, meaning to take great measures if necessary to depart from iniquity a all cost to the saving of our soul..We do this by repenting coming clean with God and having a single eye focused on Christ, thus following after His ways, not the ways of vain men looking to make your flesh feel good with flatteries...

Grace777x70 · Jun 17, 2017

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy then we are now.

However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

This involves the renewing of the mind to walk out what already is in the new creation that is one spirit with Christ now. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. We participate in this with Him. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.

Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Acts 26:17 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

We are holy because He is holy! Christ makes us holy.

dcontroversal · Jun 17, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy then we are now.

However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

This involves the renewing of the mind to walk out what already is in the new creation that is one spirit with Christ now. The Holy Spirit transforms us as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. We participate in this with Him. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.

Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.
Acts 26:17 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15[/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

We are holy because He is holy! Christ makes us holy.

Amen........thanks be to God.......and his finished work in Jesus ............all praise goes to JESUS....those who push works and sinless perfectionism deny Christ, devalue his work and sacrifice.......and trample the blood of Jesus under their feet........

LoveGodForever · Jun 18, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Hi Grace777,

I really do not understand what your talking about above and cannot understand what you have written above and how you think it supports what you are accusing me of taking God's Word out of context. Please forgive me, maybe I am slow. Sometimes this is a problem of mine.

What is it exactly you are accusing me of taking out of context and how does what you have written above support your case in reference to message 12663 and Acts 5:32?

You have seen the original Greek meaning of the words "obey" and "obedience to the faith" in the earlier scriptures you quoted. This was backed up with other scriptures (Matt 4:4; 2Tim 3:16) from the Word of God which support the Greek meaning of the Word "obey" and "obedience to the faith". Now your saying that God's Word does not mean what it says? All I can say to the above is that I believe God's Word and we ought to obey God rather than man. Which is in context to Acts 5:32
"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." (Act 5:29)

God's sheep hear His Voice (not another's interpretation of it)

God bless you

Katy-follower · Jun 18, 2017

UnderGrace said:

Many cannot accept that we're to have empty hands of faith. To them it seems too simple, which is why they believe they must do something also. They try to get to God on their own terms (broad way), not on His terms.

1 Cor 1:18: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God"

It's like a person hanging from monkey bars with hell below them... Jesus tells them to let go of the bars and He will catch them, so they won't fall into hell. But the person instead chooses to cling to those monkey bars, so in doing this they reject Jesus as being sufficient to save them. When they cling to their works to save them, they reject Him.

Katy-follower · Jun 18, 2017

1 Cor 1:26-31: "For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

graceNpeace · Jun 18, 2017

Katy-follower said:

Many cannot accept that we're to have empty hands of faith. To them it seems too simple, which is why they believe they must do something also. They try to get to God on their own terms (broad way), not on His terms.

1 Cor 1:18: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God"

It's like a person hanging from monkey bars with hell below them... Jesus tells them to let go of the bars and He will catch them, so they won't fall into hell. But the person instead chooses to cling to those monkey bars, so in doing this they reject Jesus as being sufficient to save them. When they cling to their works to save them, they reject Him.

Briliant description!

UnderGrace · Jun 18, 2017

Bears repeating! And Amen!

Katy-follower said:

1 Cor 1:26-31: "For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence. But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

UnderGrace · Jun 18, 2017

Amen!

There is only one way to come to Him, and that is on His terms.

You are saved, when you are not trying to save yourself.

Katy-follower said:

Many cannot accept that we're to have empty hands of faith. To them it seems too simple, which is why they believe they must do something also. They try to get to God on their own terms (broad way), not on His terms.

1 Cor 1:18: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God"

It's like a person hanging from monkey bars with hell below them... Jesus tells them to let go of the bars and He will catch them, so they won't fall into hell. But the person instead chooses to cling to those monkey bars, so in doing this they reject Jesus as being sufficient to save them. When they cling to their works to save them, they reject Him.

JIMBO43 · Jun 18, 2017

Mark 16:16
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned....

JIMBO43 · Jun 18, 2017

what does it mean to believe ? and what must we do as believers..

graceNpeace · Jun 18, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

You have the agenda - why don't you answer the question...

Grace777x70 · Jun 18, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

I understand....

Here is the scripture.

"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts 5:32)

This is a salvation scripture that says that God gives the Holy Spirit to them that obey Him. To "obey Him" in this context is to be "obedient to the faith" and receive Christ's abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness. Rom 5:17

This truth can be seen in Cornelius and his household that received the Holy Spirit when they became "obedient to the faith" and "obeyed God" and believed the gospel message of the forgiveness of sins.

Jesus Himself said to "repent" and believe in the gospel. Mark 1:15

Acts 10:43-47 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

[SUP]45 [/SUP] All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.

[SUP]46 [/SUP] For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,

[SUP]47 [/SUP] "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" This shows what "receiving the Holy Spirit" means when we believed the gospel message of forgiveness of sins.

To obey God in Acts 5:432 is a salvation scripture to obey the message to believe in what Christ has already done and that we have the forgiveness of sins.

Many times - those that believe our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell if they don't act the way some others think they should act and they try to use this scripture in Acts 5:32 to convey a totally different message then what the "context" shows.

So, the word "obey" is used really as a "code" word to try to tell believers in Christ that God will throw them in hell if they don't do everything that they think they should be doing.

Are you one of those people that believes our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell if they don't act the way some think they should?

I certainly hope so because it is a complete violation of the very nature of God and violates the whole reason of the "why" of the gospel in the first place and it replaces the grace of God for the false doctrine that we save ourselves by what we do or don't do.

That is what the Law was based on. We live in a New Covenant now with a High Priest that represents us and this Covenant is build upon better promises and the blood of Jesus speaks of better things.

Bless you and I hope your day goes well!

LoveGodForever · Jun 18, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Hi Grace777,

Did you get the chance to read the message that I wrote earlier in message 12663 in relations to Acts 5:32? I am just wondering because it seems you are writing things into the Word of God that just is not there. Let's look at the Bible verse again..

"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts 5:32)

Lets have a look at what your saying and what has been said earlier? Your asking us to believe you when you say... God's Word above (Acts 5:32) does not mean God gives the Holy Spirit to them that "obey" him. But instead you put your own interpretation on the scripture and say that God does not mean "obey" here, He actually means "obedience to the faith."

Not only are you changing the meaning of God's Word, but your expecting people to not believe the Word of God as it has been written but to believe your interpretation of what it says. If this is not clear enough, message 12663 looks up the original Greek meaning of the Word "Obey" in reference to Acts 5:32 above which says...

Greek meaning of the word "OBEY" from Acts 5:32
πειθαρχέω
peitharcheō
pi-tharkh-eh'-o
From a compound of G3982 and G757; to be persuaded by a ruler, that is, to submit to authority; by analogy to conform to advice: - hearken, obey (magistrates) in the present tense.

The original Greek meaning of the Word "Obey" from Acts 5:32, does not mean "Obedience to the Faith" as you have stated above so it should be very clear to the reader that it is not me that is taking God's Word out of context it is you.

The other texts you have quoted in relation to "Obedience to the Faith" in the Greek is a totally different Word. See below...

Greek meaning of the words "Obedience to the Faith"
πίστις
pistis
pis'-tis
From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence ; moral conviction of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher, especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

The Word above "pistis" (Obedience to the Faith) is not used in Acts 5:32 only "peitharcheo" (Obey) is used (definitions supplied above). Also your interpretation to pistis (Obedience to the Faith) is also too narrow as the Greek here is talking about obedience to the whole truth of the Word of God not only one aspect of God's Word but if you like, every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. This is backed up with scripture interpretation from Matt 4:4 and 2Tim 3:16 as mentioned earlier. It means completely relying on Christ (the Word of God) for salvation. Nothing has been taken out of context my end. Hope the above might help you.

God bless you

JIMBO43 · Jun 18, 2017

graceNpeace said:

ILL TAKE THIS AS JUST ANOTHER PALM OFF god blees you sister

Grace777x70 · Jun 18, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

What this shows is that it conflicts with your beliefs and thus in your mind it is changing the meaning of scripture. It's a common tactic.

To obey does mean to "hearken to" to follow what is said and in this case - it is to believe the gospel message of the forgiveness of sins.

Obedience ( as in being obedient to the faith ) in the Greek is "to hear" which means to hear the gospel message of the forgiveness of sins. Believing the gospel message of Christ is called "being obedient to the faith".

The Greek word for "obedient" to the faith is this: "to the faith" is also a different word in Greek. These are 2 words. ( it is actually in the Greek - obedience of faith )

This word is a combination of [FONT="Gentium" !important]hupo[/FONT] (5097), a preposition meaning “by” or “below,” and [FONT="Gentium" !important]akoē[/FONT] (187), “that which is heard” (from the verb [FONT="Gentium" !important]akouō[/FONT] [189], “to hear”).

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

To obey Christ and to be obedient to the faith is to believe in Christ as shown by Peter preaching the true gospel to Cornelius.

I see that you didn't answer my question. I'll give it again. My question is in brown. I like to take people's religions for test runs to see what is really in them.

Quote:

Many times - those that believe our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell if they don't act the way some others think they should act and they try to use this scripture in Acts 5:32 to convey a totally different message then what the "context" shows.

So, the word "obey" is used really as a "code" word to try to tell believers in Christ that God will throw them in hell if they don't do everything that they think they should be doing.

Are you one of those people that believes our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell if they don't act the way some think they should?

Thank you and God bless you too! We have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ and a good, good, loving Father.

dcontroversal · Jun 18, 2017

Katy-follower said:

Amen....the simplicity that is found in Christ<--->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE..........NOT one word about works..........it is belief/faith that saves.....end of story!

LoveGodForever · Jun 18, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

What this shows is that it conflicts with your beliefs and thus in your mind it is changing the meaning of scripture. It's a common tactic.

To obey does mean to "hearken to" to follow what is said and in this case - it is to believe the gospel message of the forgiveness of sins.

Obedience ( as in being obedient to the faith ) in the Greek is "to hear" which means to hear the gospel message of the forgiveness of sins. Believing the gospel message of Christ is called "being obedient to the faith".

The Greek word for "obedient" to the faith is this: "to the faith" is also a different word in Greek. These are 2 words. ( it is actually in the Greek - obedience of faith )

This word is a combination of hupo (5097), a preposition meaning “by” or “below,” and akoē (187), “that which is heard” (from the verb akouō [189], “to hear”).

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Sigma-Omega.

To obey Christ and to be obedient to the faith is to believe in Christ as shown by Peter preaching the true gospel to Cornelius.

I see that you didn't answer my question. I'll give it again. My question is in brown. I like to take people's religions for test runs to see what is really in them.

Quote:

Many times - those that believe our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell if they don't act the way some others think they should act and they try to use this scripture in Acts 5:32 to convey a totally different message then what the "context" shows.

So, the word "obey" is used really as a "code" word to try to tell believers in Christ that God will throw them in hell if they don't do everything that they think they should be doing.

Are you one of those people that believes our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell if they don't act the way some think they should?

Thank you and God bless you too! We have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ and a good, good, loving Father.

Hello Grace777

It really does baffle me that you feel you need to write assays that have no meaning to try and change the simple meaning of God's Word. I will leave this to you and God. The text is actually very simple my friend and God Word is exactly as it is written...

"And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." (Acts 5:32)

The original Greek says exactly the same thing and everyone is free to look it up for themselves.

God's Sheep hear His Voice

God bless you my friend

BillG · Jun 18, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

Hi Grace777,

I really do not understand what your talking about above and cannot understand what you have written above and how you think it supports what you are accusing me of taking God's Word out of context. Please forgive me, maybe I am slow. Sometimes this is a problem of mine.

What is it exactly you are accusing me of taking out of context and how does what you have written above support your case in reference to message 12663 and Acts 5:32?

You have seen the original Greek meaning of the words "obey" and "obedience to the faith" in the earlier scriptures you quoted. This was backed up with other scriptures (Matt 4:4; 2Tim 3:16) from the Word of God which support the Greek meaning of the Word "obey" and "obedience to the faith". Now your saying that God's Word does not mean what it says? All I can say to the above is that I believe God's Word and we ought to obey God rather than man. Which is in context to Acts 5:32
"Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men." (Act 5:29)

God's sheep hear His Voice (not another's interpretation of it)

God bless you

Hi LGF

Who was Peter talking to and what is your interpretation of this verse?

Grace777x70 · Jun 18, 2017

LoveGodForever said:

I am trying to get you to see that true obedience is in the New Covenant to believe in the gospel message of Christ and the forgiveness of sins and that this is being "obedient to the faith". From this obedience a believer becomes a new creation and from this new inner man follows God. Get this backwards and we create a religion.

I have shown you when Peter preached the gospel - that Cornelius and his household received the Holy Spirit when they believed the message of Christ - just like it says in Acts 5:32. This is "obeying God".

I see that you didn't once more answer my question . I'll give it again. My question is in brown below. I like to take people's religions for test runs to see what is really in them.

Quote:

Many times - those that believe our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell if they don't act the way some others think they should act and they try to use this scripture in Acts 5:32 to convey a totally different message then what the "context" shows.

So, the word "obey" is used really as a "code" word to try to tell believers in Christ that God will throw them in hell if they don't do everything that they think they should be doing.

Are you one of those people that believes our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell if they don't act the way some think they should?

Thank you and God bless you too! We have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ and a good, good, loving Father.

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