Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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Nice try...no cigar and my statement is good..........re-read slowly and see if you can get past religion to actually understand....here will post it for you again and break it down into simple steps....NOW...think real hard about the below three statements and see if you can add......
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
False dogmas condemn to hell....a failure to come the one and only true way condemns to hell.....not trusting JESUS biblically condemns to hell......so....what is your point bro.....?
a. False dogmas condemn to hell
b. A failure to come the one and only true way condemns to hell
c. Not trusting JESUS biblically condemns to hell
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
a. False dogmas condemn to hell
b. A failure to come the one and only true way condemns to hell
c. Not trusting JESUS biblically condemns to hell
a. False doctrine condemns to hell.
What kind of false doctrine?
You mean, like, if I believe in the Real Presence, as Luther did, but Jesus is not really in the host, I'm going to hell?
You mean if someone believes in Eternal Security, and it turns out that it's wrong, that person is going to hell?
Uffa. That's some God you're trusting in. I like mine much better.
He's going to judge me on whether or not I believed in His Son Jesus and what I DID with that belief.
My God is a nice and loving God. You should get to know Him.
b. The failure to come to God the one and only way condemns to hell.
Whoa! Whaddaya mean? Those poor tribal people down in Africa who never heard of Jesus are going stright to hell?
Even though they might sense that there's a God? (Romans might help you out with this concept, I'm sure you know the passage)
And what about those poor little kids in Tibet? Their parents never taught them about Jesus. Are they going straight to hell too? Yes. I like my God much better.
c. Not trusting Jesus biblically.
Well --- You're going to have to explain that one a bit better. If you care to.
I know people who have never read the bible and understand things about God better than some here who claim to have read it over and over again. How do you figure that? Are they going to hell too?
Is our salvation based on
DOCTRINE
UNDESTANDING
JESUS
Gosh. You've unknowingly broadened the field.
And you do love that "hell" word.
I keep wondering why.
Bible-->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Workers for-->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that work.
Bible-->If you believe that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.
Workers for-->If you believe that God has raised him from the dead and do good works thou shalt be saved
Bible-->Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to mercy has he saved us.
Workers for-->Only by works of righteousness which we have done and not according to mercy has he saved us
Bible-->In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.
Workers for-->In the grace you are, having been saved out of works and that of yourselves, it is not the gift of GOD, but of works so you can boast.
Workers for-->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that work.
Bible-->If you believe that God has raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.
Workers for-->If you believe that God has raised him from the dead and do good works thou shalt be saved
Bible-->Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to mercy has he saved us.
Workers for-->Only by works of righteousness which we have done and not according to mercy has he saved us
Bible-->In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.
Workers for-->In the grace you are, having been saved out of works and that of yourselves, it is not the gift of GOD, but of works so you can boast.
The prodigal son is talking about all those in the world that are dead and when they come to the Father - they are born-again.
The earth is the Lord's and the people that are in it.
Psalm 24:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.
It is the Lord that gives the spirit of man and comes from the Father of spirits. Heb. 12:9
God came unto His own - and His own did not receive Him.
The earth is the Lord's and the people that are in it.
Psalm 24:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] The earth is the LORD'S, and all it contains, The world, and those who dwell in it.
It is the Lord that gives the spirit of man and comes from the Father of spirits. Heb. 12:9
God came unto His own - and His own did not receive Him.
In Hebrew, we can see the actual meaning of believe.
~H539
אָמַן
'âman
aw-man'
A primitive root; properly to build up or support; to foster as a parent or nurse; figuratively to render (or be) firm or faithful, to trust or believe, to be permanent or quiet; morally to be true or certain; once (in Isa_30:21; by interchange for H541) to go to the right hand: - hence assurance, believe, bring up, establish, + fail, be faithful (of long continuance, stedfast, sure, surely, trusty, verified), nurse, (-ing father), (put), trust, turn to the right.
Total KJV occurrences: 108
H543
אָמֵן
'âmên
aw-mane'
From H539; sure; abstractly faithfulness; adverbially truly: - Amen, so be it, truth.
Total KJV occurrences: 30
~AMaN Means 'I Affirm' When Used at the End of a Prayer
A [ah] (H543) means I. The pictograph of an ox-head named AL (ika aleph) can mean "strong”, or “I” when used as a prefix to words because a person who experiences a phenomenon themselves (the proceeding word) will feel it the strongest.
MaN (H543) [man] means affirm. MaN means “firm” or “affirm” in the functional action sense, and AMaN means “An affirmation of firmness and support.” (AHLB#: 1290).
AMaN was used to ask IEUE to affirm, make firm, make true and make real what one had spoken just beforehand.
This ancient OBaRI sense of firmness was if their blood continued in their following generations, and possibly through their (long, thin) veins. This aligns with Lev 17:11 - ‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood,
MaN - Strongs #543: AHLB#: 1290
1290) Nm ac: Firm co: Kind ab: Sure: The pictograph m is a picture of water or other liquid such as blood, the n is a picture of a seed representing continuance. Combined these mean "blood continues". Each species (kind) continues by passing its blood to the following generation, which comes from the parent. Also the idea of strength through the blood. (eng: man; name - a reversal of the letters; animal; omen)
AMaN had several meanings relating to "MaN" (firmness).
The main one is "I affirm"
Amen, I believe.
Seen here in the NT clearly:
~The Scriptures '98+ Luk 8:12 “And those by the wayside are the ones who hear, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, lest having believed, they should be saved.
The obedience comes from the phrase "hearken unto My Voice".
Noah believed and obeyed His Voice.
But, believe doesn't always include an instruction.
Taken from both Strongs concordance and Yahweh.org
~H539
אָמַן
'âman
aw-man'
A primitive root; properly to build up or support; to foster as a parent or nurse; figuratively to render (or be) firm or faithful, to trust or believe, to be permanent or quiet; morally to be true or certain; once (in Isa_30:21; by interchange for H541) to go to the right hand: - hence assurance, believe, bring up, establish, + fail, be faithful (of long continuance, stedfast, sure, surely, trusty, verified), nurse, (-ing father), (put), trust, turn to the right.
Total KJV occurrences: 108
H543
אָמֵן
'âmên
aw-mane'
From H539; sure; abstractly faithfulness; adverbially truly: - Amen, so be it, truth.
Total KJV occurrences: 30
~AMaN Means 'I Affirm' When Used at the End of a Prayer
A [ah] (H543) means I. The pictograph of an ox-head named AL (ika aleph) can mean "strong”, or “I” when used as a prefix to words because a person who experiences a phenomenon themselves (the proceeding word) will feel it the strongest.
MaN (H543) [man] means affirm. MaN means “firm” or “affirm” in the functional action sense, and AMaN means “An affirmation of firmness and support.” (AHLB#: 1290).
AMaN was used to ask IEUE to affirm, make firm, make true and make real what one had spoken just beforehand.
This ancient OBaRI sense of firmness was if their blood continued in their following generations, and possibly through their (long, thin) veins. This aligns with Lev 17:11 - ‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood,
MaN - Strongs #543: AHLB#: 1290
1290) Nm ac: Firm co: Kind ab: Sure: The pictograph m is a picture of water or other liquid such as blood, the n is a picture of a seed representing continuance. Combined these mean "blood continues". Each species (kind) continues by passing its blood to the following generation, which comes from the parent. Also the idea of strength through the blood. (eng: man; name - a reversal of the letters; animal; omen)
AMaN had several meanings relating to "MaN" (firmness).
The main one is "I affirm"
Amen, I believe.
Seen here in the NT clearly:
~The Scriptures '98+ Luk 8:12 “And those by the wayside are the ones who hear, then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, lest having believed, they should be saved.
The obedience comes from the phrase "hearken unto My Voice".
Noah believed and obeyed His Voice.
But, believe doesn't always include an instruction.
Taken from both Strongs concordance and Yahweh.org
U
It is an erroneous assumption to believe that the parable is teaching about salvation that is given and then lost. This parable was launched because Jesus was accused of eating with sinners. He was talking to scribes and Pharisees. Context is always important!
As well, the inheritance in this instance is not analogous to salvation.
The younger son has done the unthinkable and asked for his inheritance before his father has died.
Salvation is inherited as a gift, it not something that is due to us under law.
In the story, the inheritance was something due to the son under Jewish law upon his father’s death.
The parable is driving home a point about the father -- the father who forgives, who is merciful and gracious. He told it to contrast God’s love to that of the religious leaders of that day who were in the audience.
You fail to realize that it is the younger brother who ultimately is sinning more gravely.
As well, the inheritance in this instance is not analogous to salvation.
The younger son has done the unthinkable and asked for his inheritance before his father has died.
Salvation is inherited as a gift, it not something that is due to us under law.
In the story, the inheritance was something due to the son under Jewish law upon his father’s death.
The parable is driving home a point about the father -- the father who forgives, who is merciful and gracious. He told it to contrast God’s love to that of the religious leaders of that day who were in the audience.
You fail to realize that it is the younger brother who ultimately is sinning more gravely.
U
I am just thankful that I am able to defend and promote the true gospel of Christ, for I was once trapped in a theology that gave no reprieve and freedom, only guilt and condemnation.
I defy this theology of constant insecurity!!
All glory and honor to Jesus who tells us "my yoke is easy and my burden is light" Matthew 11:30.
I defy this theology of constant insecurity!!
All glory and honor to Jesus who tells us "my yoke is easy and my burden is light" Matthew 11:30.
E
There you go,
How can one claim they are persuaded, or have confidence in Christ and God to save them, When all they preach is works, and holiness, and things we do to either save ourself, or maintain our salvation (which is really the same thing just stated differently)
They have confidence in self, not Christ, then get mad when we call the out on it.
They claim we preach easy believism, then by their continued mocking prove just how hard it is for people to believe.
As I said last week, It takes great weakness to fall on our knees, The flesh is strong, and will do all it can to prevent that from happening. It must be broken..
Sadly, as we see, Some here need to have their flesh broken, so they too can fall on their knees.
How can one claim they are persuaded, or have confidence in Christ and God to save them, When all they preach is works, and holiness, and things we do to either save ourself, or maintain our salvation (which is really the same thing just stated differently)
They have confidence in self, not Christ, then get mad when we call the out on it.
They claim we preach easy believism, then by their continued mocking prove just how hard it is for people to believe.
As I said last week, It takes great weakness to fall on our knees, The flesh is strong, and will do all it can to prevent that from happening. It must be broken..
Sadly, as we see, Some here need to have their flesh broken, so they too can fall on their knees.
E
Amen, the parable was a slam to the pharisee, who spent his life doing good, then got angry because the sinner was being told they have Gods grace and forgiveness, but did not have to do anything to earn it.
It is also a warning to us, who can be tempted into getting angry when we work hard to earn something, and it is given to someone else.. I have seen many people wiht this issue, I have suffered it myself.
It is NOT about losing salvation, then regaining it when you come back..
It is also a warning to us, who can be tempted into getting angry when we work hard to earn something, and it is given to someone else.. I have seen many people wiht this issue, I have suffered it myself.
It is NOT about losing salvation, then regaining it when you come back..