Christ is God
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maybe you ought to reiterate and expand your view on the validity of the apostle Thomas' testimony, then.
it seemed to me to be pretty plain how the discussion went: do you think this is a fair synopsis?
Q:
"Thomas called Jesus 'my Lord and my God' - why didn't Jesus rebuke him, since this is obvious blasphemy if it's not a true statement?"
"Thomas called Jesus 'my Lord and my God' - why didn't Jesus rebuke him, since this is obvious blasphemy if it's not a true statement?"
A:
"Thomas was a faithless disappointment as a disciple so let's ignore his testimony"
"Thomas was a faithless disappointment as a disciple so let's ignore his testimony"
throwing shade on Thomas is unwarranted and does not in any way answer the question.
in fact, if i accept your low view of the apostle, then the question of why Jesus did not correct him becomes all that much bigger!!
you say literally that your view is Thomas is 'not among the blessed' because he saw Jesus.
that's directly contradicted by Jesus calling all the disciples blessed because they see Him, in the verses i cited. and if seeing Jesus makes one 'unblessed' then so also for the disciples who ran to the tomb? do you mean to discredit the testimony of all 11?
Jesus replied,
"Go back and report to John what you hear and see"
(Matthew 11:4)
If I am not doing the works of My Father, then do not believe Me. But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works themselves, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.
(John 10:37-28)
(John 10:37-28)
Jesus seems to have a high view of evidence.
hmm
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in point of fact, if we continue reading in John 20, John explicitly says these things ((what things? the signs that accompanied Jesus!)) are written so that the reader will believe
the book of John is a book of evidence, whose purpose is to convince that Jesus is The Anointed One, the BRANCH, the One called Everlasting Father, God With Us.
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but this thread isn't about unbelief & the excuses made for it; it's about the evidence of the scripture - so, to the book of John:
i want to draw our attention to #6 above, in particular: when Thomas calls Christ "God" Jesus affirms that Thomas believes.
so what is it that Thomas believes?
more than simply failing to rebuke him, Jesus obviously agrees with what Thomas said and reinforces Thomas' statement. Jesus' statement proves that what Thomas said is a statement of true belief!
that is, this is what a true believer says to Jesus the Christ:
the book of John is a book of evidence, whose purpose is to convince that Jesus is The Anointed One, the BRANCH, the One called Everlasting Father, God With Us.
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but this thread isn't about unbelief & the excuses made for it; it's about the evidence of the scripture - so, to the book of John:
And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
(John 20:26-29)
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
(John 20:26-29)
- Jesus declares peace to Thomas, not conflict.
- Jesus' will is for Thomas to believe.
- Jesus therefore presents Thomas with the evidence Thomas says will convince him, with the purpose that Thomas should believe.
- Thomas calls Him Lord and God.
- Jesus does not rebuke this statement.
- Jesus affirms that Thomas believes - i.e., His will that Thomas should believe is accomplished.
- Jesus says those ((that's us, btw)) who do not have the advantage of seeing Him, but still believe, are blessed. This does not mean Thomas is 'unblessed' - Thomas believes. it means that those who believe though they do not have the advantage Thomas has are blessed. This last statement is not about Thomas or about anyone else present when the statement was made.
i want to draw our attention to #6 above, in particular: when Thomas calls Christ "God" Jesus affirms that Thomas believes.
so what is it that Thomas believes?
more than simply failing to rebuke him, Jesus obviously agrees with what Thomas said and reinforces Thomas' statement. Jesus' statement proves that what Thomas said is a statement of true belief!
that is, this is what a true believer says to Jesus the Christ:
my Lord and my God!
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I am sorry you feel the ned to add to what I said about Thomas making it all a lot worse.
You must not have found my posts to other people explaining why Jesus did not rebuke Thomas when he called Him 'my Lord and God'. So I will just tell you in a nutshell why not----
for the present time Jesus has all authority on earth and is doing all the work 'in the Fathers Name and is indeed 'God with us '!
But that high position will end when the work is done and Jesus hands all and subjects himself also back to God 1 Cor 15v25-28.
You must not have found my posts to other people explaining why Jesus did not rebuke Thomas when he called Him 'my Lord and God'. So I will just tell you in a nutshell why not----
for the present time Jesus has all authority on earth and is doing all the work 'in the Fathers Name and is indeed 'God with us '!
But that high position will end when the work is done and Jesus hands all and subjects himself also back to God 1 Cor 15v25-28.
YHWH is my Shepherd,
I shall not want
(Psalm 23:1)
say to the cities of Judah,
“Behold your God!”
Behold, Adonai YHWH comes with might,
and His arm rules for Him;
behold, His reward is with Him,
and His recompense before Him.
He will tend His flock like a shepherd;
He will gather the lambs in His arms;
He will carry them in His bosom,
and gently lead those that are with young.
(Isaiah 40:9-11)
I AM THE SHEPHERD, the Good One
(John 10:11)
I shall not want
(Psalm 23:1)
say to the cities of Judah,
“Behold your God!”
Behold, Adonai YHWH comes with might,
and His arm rules for Him;
behold, His reward is with Him,
and His recompense before Him.
He will tend His flock like a shepherd;
He will gather the lambs in His arms;
He will carry them in His bosom,
and gently lead those that are with young.
(Isaiah 40:9-11)
I AM THE SHEPHERD, the Good One
(John 10:11)
...as you continue to argue your Arian heresy.
Sure, but unity isn't created, it is to be maintained (Ephsians 4:3) and it always stems upon the truth of the Word, otherwise it is called compromise, it is not rightly then called "peace".
That is the fine line drawn up by God -- we are not to have unity with those who teach heresy, and unfortunately you are of the latter.
let's do math!
set theory, specifically. first, some definitions:
for sets A & B, ((A = {a[SUB]1[/SUB], a[SUB]2[/SUB], . . . a[SUB]n[/SUB]} etc))
A ⊆ B means "A is contained in B"
that is, for every a in A, a is also in B
((written ∀ i, a[SUB]i[/SUB] ∈ A → a[SUB]i[/SUB] ∈ B))
likewise,
B ⊆ A means "B is contained in A"
got it? OK. now..
Theorem
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that all make sense?
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now, keep that in mind and read this:
is Jesus speaking set theory?
♥
set theory, specifically. first, some definitions:
for sets A & B, ((A = {a[SUB]1[/SUB], a[SUB]2[/SUB], . . . a[SUB]n[/SUB]} etc))
A ⊆ B means "A is contained in B"
that is, for every a in A, a is also in B
((written ∀ i, a[SUB]i[/SUB] ∈ A → a[SUB]i[/SUB] ∈ B))
likewise,
B ⊆ A means "B is contained in A"
got it? OK. now..
Theorem
if A ⊆ B and B ⊆ A
then A = B
then A = B
proof:
assume A ⊆ B and B ⊆ A.
A ≠ B if and only if there is something in A that is not in B or vice versa
((written: A ≠ B iff ∃ i: a[SUB]i[/SUB] ∉ B or b[SUB]i[/SUB] ∉ A))
suppose then that there is an element in either A or B that is not in the other. we can arbitrarily pick A to have the 'extra' element, and the proof is the same for the case that it is B. let that element be a[SUB]k[/SUB], such that a[SUB]k[/SUB] ∈ A but a[SUB]k[/SUB] ∉ B. however, since A ⊆ B, a[SUB]k[/SUB] ∈ B, contradicting the assumption that a[SUB]k[/SUB] ∉ B.
A ≠ B if and only if there is something in A that is not in B or vice versa
((written: A ≠ B iff ∃ i: a[SUB]i[/SUB] ∉ B or b[SUB]i[/SUB] ∉ A))
suppose then that there is an element in either A or B that is not in the other. we can arbitrarily pick A to have the 'extra' element, and the proof is the same for the case that it is B. let that element be a[SUB]k[/SUB], such that a[SUB]k[/SUB] ∈ A but a[SUB]k[/SUB] ∉ B. however, since A ⊆ B, a[SUB]k[/SUB] ∈ B, contradicting the assumption that a[SUB]k[/SUB] ∉ B.
therefore there is no such a[SUB]k[/SUB] ∉ B and A = B
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that all make sense?
¡bueno!
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now, keep that in mind and read this:
Philip said to Him,
“Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
Jesus said to him,
“Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.
(John 14:8-11)
“Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.”
Jesus said to him,
“Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.
(John 14:8-11)
is Jesus speaking set theory?
The Son ⊆ The Father
and
The Father ⊆ The Son
?
♥
I have sworn by myself,
the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
(Isaiah 45:23)
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Philippians 2:9-11)
[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]nobody wanted to do math . . . ?
One day a physics professor was trying to explain the characteristics of electromagnetic radiation spectrum and how things change depending on the wavelength of the radiation to a bunch of first year university students.
He could tell from the bovine stares of incomprehension from his class that he wasn't really succeeding.
Suddenly he gets a brainwave, strides off to the side of the lecture theatre where his hat and coat were hanging and retrieves his hat.
He calls on one chap sitting close to the front to come and stand in front of him.
Then he raises his hat in front of the student's face so that the student could not see him.
Then the professor says to the student, "Now son, can you see me?"
To which the student replies "No sir!"
"Good!", says the professor, "But you can hear me well enough, yes?"
And the student replies, "Yes sir!"
The professor beams at this, and then asks the student, "Well son, what does this tell about the characteristics of electromagnetic radiation?"
Completely stumped the student hesitates for a second before answering timidly, "Well sir, you are talking through your hat!"