Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

E.g.....sometimes disengage is the best tactic.,, Jimbo actually advised me of that days ago.

Thanks, I made my peace, last comment on that subject..

 

[BillG]

I hate to say it peter, but I have to consider you a lost cause,

you always think everything is about you,

you made a statement earlier that I use the term legalism in order to say we are continually trapped in sin,

1. I have never mentioned legalism and entrapment in sin.
2. I have told you 100 times what I think legalism is, and it had absolutely nothing to do with sin

at least two people have tried to tell you this, but you as always ignore any form of chastening from anyone

now we have spent how many posts trying to get you to repkent of your lie, and what do you do? Do you repent? No, you continue to skirt the issue you do not even speak of the first post that got this discussion about your false innuendo concerning me just today,and Got me to declaired your a self proclaimed deity (know it all)

dude, I do not know what world you live in, but it is not a world of reality, maybe your sick? I will pray for you, however, as I said earlier, your not normal, normal people do not continue to day after day do what you do,

However, you can count on the following,

I will continue to expose your slander when you do that to anyone

i will continue to give a counter argument any time I disagree with what you say about Gods word

If you do not like that, that's too bad. Live with it.

I will no longer try to help you learn how to discuss with anyone, or try to help you to be truthful, you speak of love and holiness, yet almost daily you commit the sin of bearing false witness. Stop trying to be a teacher of repentance and holiness, when you refuse to repent yourself

And love, love does no harm to people, it surely does not slander them with lies, all we can do is pray one day you see this,

Putting aside your differences do you really consider him a lost cause?
I suppose PJ could say the same and you maybe he has.

Me thinks neither of you probably do.

Go back to your wonderful post in your wilderness years, were you a lost cause? During this period what were your thoughts about you then and what are they truly now.

I just want to say that I am talking to you and not addressing PJ.

I think the truth is in reality as genuine beleivers all we want is the best for each other in Christ. That's the ultimate and that's why we will still engage.

 

[oldethennew]

neither one has said that they have 'given-up' on pj, but our Heavenly Father definitely
will convict us when we should not cast our pearls...

 

[Ariel82]

Maybe BillY. But if the Holy spirit doesn't convict someone of their sins and they take any form of rebuke as a personal attack?

Its better to leave it in God's hands.

You don't approach wounded folks who don't trust you.

Any more than you walk between a wounded momma bear and her cubs.

Just not a wise choice. It doesn't really help anyone.

Some kids you let play in Their own castles and slay their dragons.

 

[FranC]

Positional Righteousness is 2 Cor 5.21, so we agree.

I do not believe one can keep or lose their salvation.

Does it all depend only on God?
I believe one can accept salvation once he is aware of God in a real way.
He becomes faithful and trusting in God, and this saves him.
John 3:16 Whoever BELIEVETH .... so as long as one believes, he is saved by Jesus.

If a person abandons God (not sins, or at least individual sins) he will no longer be saved because he has blasphemed the Holy Spirit and has left the only name that can save him.

Your words sound very calvinist but you said you are not one.
??

 

[FranC]

That was to someone else Not you.

Although I did ask you a question about it when I first read it.. You did not respond..

I have a difficult time keeping up with this thread.
If I can find the question, I will answer it.

 

[dcontroversal]

Good Morning cutie,

So tell me this:

How come verb tense, verbiage, and definition of words, is only important to OSAS'ers??

How come those who believe in loss of salvation need only to read the words simply stated in the bible?

Hmmm.......

Oh. And calling the crucifixion a "side show" is probably blasphemous.

Ask yourself that...you guys are the only ones who reject it.....and the context of my quote is known by the Lord....lay odds he agrees......if I was a betting man....!

 

[dcontroversal]

If by "positional righteousness" you mean that righteousness is not of ourselves but we are imputed God's righteousness through Jesus,then I agree.

And we do receive it at salvation and for as long as we desire to be saved.

I do not believe in OSAS. Sorry. I don't see this in the bible. (as most denominations also do not teach this).

Broad and wide is the way that leads to the pit......just saying...few find the door<--Minority.......GRACE dia FAITH and eternal....

 

[dcontroversal]

How did Willybob miss the mark???

Does God put aside sinners for His use? (He may --- but I refer to general discussion)
Or does God use those who are ready, willing and able to serve Him?

I do believe Willybob is SPOT ON.

OR
You could explain why he isn't... (instead of making snide remarks which do not suit you as a Christian man)

The truth is the truth....and his sinless working for dogma misses the mark....God has been using IMPERFECT men to preach his PERFECT message from the beginning...wake up....

 

[Meggido]

Does it all depend only on God?
I believe one can accept salvation once he is aware of God in a real way.
He becomes faithful and trusting in God, and this saves him.
John 3:16 Whoever BELIEVETH .... so as long as one believes, he is saved by Jesus.

If a person abandons God (not sins, or at least individual sins) he will no longer be saved because he has blasphemed the Holy Spirit and has left the only name that can save him.

Your words sound very calvinist but you said you are not one.
??

Does a Calvinist believe one can fall away from the faith?

 

[dcontroversal]

It is sad, We are so busy trying to take care of our selves, And acting like Christians, We can not see the selfish people that we are. The church has lost focus of what it means to be a child of God (or maybe the mainstream church never figured it out?) they think religion, worship service, Doing all these sacrimental traditional things, and trying our best to obey the law s what it is, and it is not.

It is serving the poor, Saving the lost, Serving each other, Studying to make ourself aproved, a workman who needs not be ashamed, And able to answer any question in season or out, And finding out our spiritual gift, which God has given us to help us serve others better.

Look at the religious "workers" all you hear is about self elf self. Work Work Work. You hear nothign or very little about God, and what he has done, is doing, and will do.

Hope you had a great night, I went out hit 9 holes of Golf, then slept like a baby, First time in Awhile. Praise God!

If you were in Missouri we could go shoot a round....love golf....when I play regularly can shoot mid 80's on a par 72......

 

[dcontroversal]

Your right, Actions do speak louder than words. That,s why I take action, And when I see legalism being preached, I stomp my foot on it, and I am not afraid if I hurt anyones feelings, Just like Paul did when confronting his legalistic infiltrators, Just like Jesus did when he confronted the pharisee and saducee.

And can you please for once learn what legalism is, ad what it means. Your made up interpretations are so far off what everyone understand it to be, you can not understand what people mean by it, And no one can understand what you mean by it, so causes confusion when you mention it..

It is placing our acceptance by God dependent on the works we do. or saying we are punished severely for something we did or did not do.

Examples.

1. I have to work to maintain salvation
2. I committed this, or these sins, So I will never get what I want, and God will never love me
3. I committed this, or these sins, So I have to work and do all these things, then maybe God will forgive me
4. I did these terrible things in my life, no matter what I do. God will not allow me to do much in his service
5. (a good example we saw yesterday), I did not Go to church, So God blew my knees out
I can give many more examples, But I hope you get the point.

These things are destructive, They keep people from growing in Christ, They tear people down, They keep people from heaven (works based salvation) They make God out to be a dictator (which is exactly what Satan's lie is and has been from the beginning, and the lie which Jesus put down on the cross, which sadly, you do not appreciate like you should proven by the fact you state it is not enough to save you) and not an Abba Father we can go to whenever we want, with all our needs, including our sin, and find his comfort, even through his discipline. We can go without fear.

Lastly, I am sick of these lies about people saying the kingdom is all about faith and not works. If you people are ot going to humble yourself and even attempt to understand what people are saying, You have no one to blame but yourself when people get upset with you.

ENTERING the kingdom is all about faith alone

THE KINGDOM is all aboout christian growth wich includes works.

TRY FOR ONCE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IS WHAT WE PREACH AND BELIEVE. ok??

We are sick of the lies!

I 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th that with extra sauce........

 

[dcontroversal]

I lived the first part. It was dead, most Everyone in my church were spiritually lifeless, We would see each other only on Sunday, and maybe on wed night prayer.

We did not confess our sins to each other to get healed. We did not show who we truly were to each other. We came, Played church, Acted like we were righteous people and loved God, etc etc, and went home to our hidden sinful lives.

Year after year, people would fall away, and you would find out some sin issue took them down. But they were afraid to say anything to anyone to get help. because they knew they would be judged, attacked, Maligned, Told they do not have faith in God, because if they did they would not have this struggle. It is better to just hide it, Play church, and hope it goes away.

Well it does not work that way,

Granted not saying every traditional church is this way, My aunt goes to one, She loves the singing, and other stuff, But she also is a go getter. She makes sure people in the church gets together outside of church, She makes sure people know we all struggle. and she will be the first one to help Her husband (who is now with the lord) spent his whole lifetime serving God and others. SO it can be done,

I just think the much of the mainstream church has issues, it has lost focus, and thats why it is losing members left and right, and people are moving to non traditional non denominational churches.

Many are nothing more than entertainment centers with a give the dog a bone ministries..........people will ask...WHAT does your church have to offer instead of how can I serve this body faithfully.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen
and those saved by works enter the kingdom of God, and are changed people. continuing to be sanctified by God, growing through tribulation, Through Trial, Through chastening Hopefully learning to love as God loved them. And not torn down by false teachers and satan who always wants to accuse them

Paul was clear hey....if it is works..it is not of grace....by bible teaches by GRACE are you saved......it cannot be of works if it is of grace...and it is of grace......

 

[dcontroversal]

SO bro...which is is....you seem to contradict yourself with the two statements below.....

I am not OSAS nor a Calvinist I can assure you.

Originally Posted by Meggido

Positional Righteousness is 2 Cor 5.21, so we agree.

I do not believe one can keep or lose their salvation.

 

[Ariel82]

Does a Calvinist believe one can fall away from the faith?

No they dont but it's more complicated than that,

 

[dcontroversal]

He is the only one I have ever blocked.....and the reason is obvious........most I can deal with........

See how you are, You act all pure and righteous, then in the middle you have to put a jab and attack in there. Which is totally meaningless, because it is all based on a FALSE PREMISE of you KNOWING and UNDERSTANDING a view someone else takes. Which has been proven countless times by countless people not to be true.

News flash peter. I know it is hard for you to understand, because of the armor that you have surrounded yourself with, But you can not tel someone they have an invented form of faith WHEN YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT THEIR FORM OF FAITH IS.

That is like a person who has never studied about engines, Worked on an engine, or even watched someone work onn an engine going to them and telling them they have no idea what they are talking about, there way to fix the engine is an invented view and is not right, And they need to try to tell the mechanic how to fix the car.

but you will continue on, You will continue to bash people. continue to tell them they believe things they do not COntinue to make yourself look bad, and continue to be unable to converse with anyone, Because you refuse to try to figure out what they believe, Your right about everything, You know them better than themselves. You are a self proclaied diety who is omniscient and knows all things, and how dare anyone tell you otherwise.

 

[joefizz]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

had to check first post to remember what this thread is about...and well to simplify being saved is the only way to do any righteous works,so actually salvation starts you out on the path to do righteous works,true your works can't tear you away from salvation but you can still err or sin,like in this first post,to say that works have nothing to with salvation is almost accurate because you ask God to save your soul humbly to be saved and by no means does anything you do or have done sway God from giving you salvation,yes this includes murderers,drunkards,and other such sinners,what matters is that you are humble and sincere when asking God to save your soul and you choose to do so of your own free will and there after if you choose to be baptized then you can receive the holy spirit and learn God's word,so I agree with that works don't influence salvation,just figured I'd note that salvation is one of the first steps to doing righteous works for God where as you kinda left this truth hanging when saying that righteous works have zero to do with salvation,a more accurate way to put this would be...current or past works do not keep us from salvation nor do they influence God to give us salvation,being saved is about humbleness and sincereness not what you've done whether good or bad,because salvation is one of many blessings that start out you doing righteous works so you cannot truly have done righteous works before being saved,just saying it's all in how you "Word" things otherwise people get confused what you mean,hope this helped!

 

[BillG]

If you were in Missouri we could go shoot a round....love golf....when I play regularly can shoot mid 80's on a par 72......

what would you shoot on the back nine


I used to play golf but alas my knees no longer cope.
Om a bad day I was called a military golfer. Left right, left right

 

[FranC]

Does a Calvinist believe one can fall away from the faith?

The answer would be no.

However Calvin did state that one could be ILLUMINATED for a while and then not be illuminated anymore.
This is different from when I hear that one that falls away was "never saved to begin with".
It would seem that he stated that one COULD fall away.

However, not being a calvinist, I'm sure I don't fully understand it.