Should Christians challenge supernatural claims.

[DJ2]

Should Christians challenge claims of physical supernatural abilities made by other Christians or groups? Should the physical supernatural act itself be examined as a basis to determine the validity of the message of the claimant? Should the message of the claimant help determine the legitimacy of the physical supernatural event?

 

[Billyd]

Should Christians challenge claims of physical supernatural abilities made by other Christians or groups? Should the physical supernatural act itself be examined as a basis to determine the validity of the message of the claimant? Should the message of the claimant help determine the legitimacy of the physical supernatural event?

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[DJ2]

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

How are we to "test the spirits"? Do we test the physical evidence?

 

[Billyd]

How are we to "test the spirits"? Do we test the physical evidence?

Anything done by the Holy Spirit will always confess that Jesus came in the Flesh.

Continue reading in 1 John 4.

1Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
1Jn 4:4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them.
1Jn 4:6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Take a little time to study these verses.

 

[Issachar92]

I think we should definately test things out. Because I see two extremes here as usual. On one hand you have the old dusty and dead churches with no Spirit in em whatsoever who are just going by the motions, and on the other we have the charismatic churches with chaos and little to no doctrine/bible!
A good mix of the two is needed!

So to the original question, it depends on what the experience is.
If someone tells me they went to heaven after they died (I have some experience of this as well) im not gonna challenge them and ruin their joy. Since its not an important thing doctrinally. But if someone says they had a vision and all the congregation needs to do A B C then I will be more critical of it.

Basically what it comes down to for me is: Does it matter if the person is right on with the particular supernatural claim?

A basic 101 way to tell if an experience is not of God is if it contradicts the Bible.

 

[Desertsrose]

Should Christians challenge claims of physical supernatural abilities made by other Christians or groups? Should the physical supernatural act itself be examined as a basis to determine the validity of the message of the claimant? Should the message of the claimant help determine the legitimacy of the physical supernatural event?

Hi DJ2,When I consider physical supernatural abilities by Christians, when others have tried to find authentic proof of healing for instance, it could not be found.

There is a scripture that says that the signs and miracles were confirming the word that the apostles were preaching. Not the word they preached confirmed the sign. Is that what you're asking about?

 

[Issachar92]

There is a scripture that says that the signs and miracles were confirming the word that the apostles were preaching. Not the word they preached confirmed the sign. Is that what you're asking about?

I'd like to see that Scripture. I have been healed and have seen people healed, two cases verified by doctors.

 

[DJ2]

I think we should definately test things out. Because I see two extremes here as usual. On one hand you have the old dusty and dead churches with no Spirit in em whatsoever who are just going by the motions, and on the other we have the charismatic churches with chaos and little to no doctrine/bible!
A good mix of the two is needed!

So to the original question, it depends on what the experience is.
If someone tells me they went to heaven after they died (I have some experience of this as well) im not gonna challenge them and ruin their joy. Since its not an important thing doctrinally. But if someone says they had a vision and all the congregation needs to do A B C then I will be more critical of it.

Basically what it comes down to for me is: Does it matter if the person is right on with the particular supernatural claim?

A basic 101 way to tell if an experience is not of God is if it contradicts the Bible.

Can a claim of physical supernatural abilities not contradict the Bible and still be fake?

 

[DJ2]

I'd like to see that Scripture. I have been healed and have seen people healed, two cases verified by doctors.

How were they verified to be supernatural?

 

[notuptome]

How were they verified to be supernatural?

How were they verified in the old times?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[samuel23]

I would not be too quick to accept stories about healings, I have found that so much of it is just stories. Now if you personally know of a real healing then that is different. When I first got into the charismatic movement I thought that miracles were happening all the time, after being there for some time I found that most of it was just talk. So I asked myself, why are they pretending that the Lord is doing all these things, then it occurred to me that by claiming such miracles they were claiming that God was in their midst and therefore what they were doing was correct. If they had admitted that nothing much was really happening then the next step would be why and that would be self examination of what they were doing and they did not want to do that.

 

[CaptainGoat]

I know healings take place. I also know through watching, false healings can take place for the wrong reasons.
God does miracles. He still does them today. I can't deny this. It is true.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Should Christians challenge claims of physical supernatural abilities made by other Christians or groups? Should the physical supernatural act itself be examined as a basis to determine the validity of the message of the claimant? Should the message of the claimant help determine the legitimacy of the physical supernatural event?

A few years ago at work, a fellow drop off some units of blood(I am a lab tech in a hospital) from Red Cross. We talked about the bible some and then he mentioned A.A. Allen. I'd never heard of him before, but he told me that Allen once preached he was at a funeral one time when he got the man out and stood him up. He prayed over him and *thud* he hit the ground. He stood him back up, dusted him off, prayed over him and laid hands on him and he came back to life. A housekeeper was in there emptying our trash and heard this and 'amened' it. Oh my gosh!! I can see the congregation shouting and flopping and floundering in the floor as he preached that foolishness.

So, yes, we need to challenge supernatural claims.

 

[DJ2]

How were they verified in the old times?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I don't know either.

 

[Willie-T]

A few years ago at work, a fellow drop off some units of blood(I am a lab tech in a hospital) from Red Cross. We talked about the bible some and then he mentioned A.A. Allen. I'd never heard of him before, but he told me that Allen once preached he was at a funeral one time when he got the man out and stood him up. He prayed over him and *thud* he hit the ground. He stood him back up, dusted him off, prayed over him and laid hands on him and he came back to life. A housekeeper was in there emptying our trash and heard this and 'amened' it. Oh my gosh!! I can see the congregation shouting and flopping and floundering in the floor as he preached that foolishness.

So, yes, we need to challenge supernatural claims.

You seem to attend a church I can openly say I would avoid.

 

[DJ2]

Hi DJ2,When I consider physical supernatural abilities by Christians, when others have tried to find authentic proof of healing for instance, it could not be found.

There is a scripture that says that the signs and miracles were confirming the word that the apostles were preaching. Not the word they preached confirmed the sign. Is that what you're asking about?[/QUOTEThe miraclous

 

[SovereignGrace]

You seem to attend a church I can openly say I would avoid.

I don't attend that church. I attend a Missionary Baptist church.

 

[Willie-T]

I don't attend that church. I attend a Missionary Baptist church.

No, I meant the things you were relating that you have decided about A.A. Allen's congregation. (But I probably would avoid A.A Allen, too.)

Tell me, would you have registered an "Amen" from the director of your hospital, the same way you reacted to a "housekeeper" saying 'Amen?'

 

[Enow]

Most of the supernatural events that is not of Him is when they preach to saved believers to seek to receive Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit again or for the first time, apart from salvation after a sign of tongues or other signs in the flesh.

That is the falling away from the faith Paul was speaking about as he reminded believers when they had received the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth which was at the calling of the gospel in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

So regardless of miracles and healing being done in His name.....that iniquity alone will have the Lord denying knowing them, because that work of iniquity which denies Him is the reason He will deny knowing them.... unless they repent in time with His help to discern and to depart from that iniquity before the Bridegroom comes. Matthew 7:21-27

So 1 John 4:2 is another way of saying 2 Corinthians 13:5 wherein the Holy Spirit is in us as promised by faith in Jesus Christ; not by tongues or any other signs that serve the believer in relations to his or her salvation. 1 John 4:3-4 is saying that since the Holy Spirit is in us as per 1 John 4:2, then that other spirit coming over you apart from salvation is not the Holy Spirit. And that tongue that it brings is the same supernatural tongue found in the world and in the occult as vain & profane babbling. Isaiah 8:19 testifies of this tongue used by wizards consulting familiar spirits. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 prophesied of believers falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils even in hypocrisy as some will acknowledged that the Holy Spirit is in them and yet seek to receive Him again after a sign.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 of the iniquity already at work in Paul's day as he who lets will let until he be taken out of the way sums up wayward believers mentality these days when they "open" themselves up to receive spirits after a sign, thinking it is the Holy Spirit when He was already in them as promised at their salvation.

It is for this cause that God permitted a strong delusion to occur for believing that lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit separate from salvation after a sign. They run the risk of damnation by being left behind as reprobates; disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper at the pre trib rapture event, and thus shall be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House. 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

Make no mistake. These wayward believers are still saved as Paul continued to talk about those falling away from the faith in the 3rd chapter as being wicked & unreasonable men not having faith and no longer walking after the tradition taught of us as given in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 and thus become disorderly as many fall backwards and go into confusion which God is not the author of ( 1 Corinthians 14:32-33 )in these movements of the "spirit" when seeking to receive the "Holy Spirit" after a sign apart from salvation... BUT they are still His as we are commanded to withdraw from those who refuse to repent to admonish them not as the enemy, but as brothers still ( 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7,14-15 ), just as Jesus will excommunicate them unless they repent in time.

This is why the solution is to narrow the way back to the Son ( Luke 13:24-30 ) and keep your eyes on Him and not on what believers are claiming to be the Holy Spirit coming and going by a sign, because the real indwelling Holy Spirit & scripture are still pointing and warning believers to keep going to the Bridegroom in living this reconciled relationship with God and not out to the marketplace, seeking to be filled, and thus hardly waiting nor ready as filled since they were saved for the Bridegroom to come for the abiding bride of Christ.

 

[PHart]

Should the physical supernatural act itself be examined as a basis to determine the validity of the message of the claimant?

No.

Should the message of the claimant help determine the legitimacy of the physical supernatural event?

Yes.

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 NASB
1“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,2and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ 3you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God is testing you to find out if you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

As we can see the message accompanying the sign or wonder is what confirms the source of the sign or wonder.