Should Christians challenge supernatural claims.
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When Peter healed the lame man, the crowd looked at Peter in amazement
and Peter said it's not by my power or holiness that this man stands healed before you (Acts 4)
it is by the power and holiness of the LORD JESUS CHRIST that this man is healed
in all things....CHRIST is glorified...CHRIST is preached
and that is the telling confirmation if a supernatural sign is ftom GOD or not
for THE HOLY SPIRIT glorifies THE SON (John 16)
and Peter said it's not by my power or holiness that this man stands healed before you (Acts 4)
it is by the power and holiness of the LORD JESUS CHRIST that this man is healed
in all things....CHRIST is glorified...CHRIST is preached
and that is the telling confirmation if a supernatural sign is ftom GOD or not
for THE HOLY SPIRIT glorifies THE SON (John 16)
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okay then
but if it takes miracles and signs for one to believe THE TRUTH of THE GOSPEL , it is no different than Thomas' need to validate what is spiritual by what is physical
LMGTFY
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...etween-original-autographs-and-original-texts
Gotta jet for a while, we're moving.
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PHart
Guest
Yes, for two reasons.
If it's fake, the worker of that supernatural event should be shunned by the Christian.
And the Christian should care about the potential for being led astray by the fake supernatural event, which, of course, is the intent of the fake supernatural event.
Same applies for the real supernatural workings of darkness. Shun the one through whom it comes, and be on your guard against being led astray by it. Real, you ask? Moses points out the danger of the real works of darkness, designed to lead God's people astray, in Deuteronomy 13:1-2 NASB.
So that explains why Greek scholar AT Robertson said (in regards to Mark 16:16) - So serious a sacramental doctrine would need stronger support anyhow than this disputed portion of Mark.
After he first said - "The omission of baptized with "disbelieveth" would seem to show that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on disbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. Baptism is merely the picture of the new life not the means of securing it."
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PHart
Guest
Some supernatural wonders are very much real, but originate from darkness. The Bible speaks of the woman who could foretell the future and made lots of money for people. She had a very real supernatural power of darkness working through her, until Paul cast it out of her and made everyone mad at him:
Acts 16:16-22 NASB
16It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling. 17Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, “These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation.” 18She continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!” And it came out at that very moment.
19But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the market place before the authorities, 20and when they had brought them to the chief magistrates, they said, “These men are throwing our city into confusion, being Jews,21and are proclaiming customs which it is not lawful for us to accept or to observe, being Romans.”
22The crowd rose up together against them, and the chief magistrates tore their robes off them and proceeded to order them to be beaten with rods.
Demonic signs and wonders can be very real. Don't adopt the thinking that it's just a matter of determining if the sign and wonder is real or not, and that all signs and wonders that are real are from God. Not true at all. Discernment has more to do with where the sign and wonder is coming from than if it's real or not. Especially in these last days:
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
Acts 16:16-22 NASB
16It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling. 17Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, “These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation.” 18She continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!” And it came out at that very moment.
19But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the market place before the authorities, 20and when they had brought them to the chief magistrates, they said, “These men are throwing our city into confusion, being Jews,21and are proclaiming customs which it is not lawful for us to accept or to observe, being Romans.”
22The crowd rose up together against them, and the chief magistrates tore their robes off them and proceeded to order them to be beaten with rods.
Demonic signs and wonders can be very real. Don't adopt the thinking that it's just a matter of determining if the sign and wonder is real or not, and that all signs and wonders that are real are from God. Not true at all. Discernment has more to do with where the sign and wonder is coming from than if it's real or not. Especially in these last days:
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12
9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
The strange part of that story to me is that the spirit in the woman actually told the truth.
Well if AT Robertson said these scriptures may be bogus, should they be removed from our Bibles. Just to be on the safe side. What else does Mr. AT Robertson think may be bogus in the Bible?
Seems like a very important issue, even more then fake miracles.
So Mark 16:16 is possibly bogus? What other parts of Mark does Mr. AT Robertson imply is bogus?
Some people will go to any length to push a false doctrine, even imply that the scriptures are not trustworthly!
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pottersclay
Guest
Jesus commanded us to teach, preach, baptise, with addition to laying hands on sick , dead and dieing.
Where does it say to investigate?
Once again this widens the narrow road we are put on to involve Christian's on a witch Hunt.
Where does it say to investigate?
Once again this widens the narrow road we are put on to involve Christian's on a witch Hunt.
Regardless, you and Mr. AT Robertson are implying that the Holy Bible is not wholly trustworthy.
Even if a angel of light came to me and said what you and Mr. AT Robertson are saying I would not believe it.
It is shocking what some people will do to push a false doctrine. Even to plant doubt in the trustworthiness of the scriptures.
Go back to reading your commentaries, this is about scripture.
Straw man argument.
I accept Mark 16 as scripture and Mr Robertson simply pointed out it's a disputed portion of scripture. That's a far cry from saying the Holy Bible is not wholly trustworthy.
It's you who is pushing false doctrine, that being - "whoever is not water baptized will be condemned."
Another straw man argument. Typical Campbellite.
There is no need to further derail this thread. Go back to discussing the OP.