The Rapture
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B
I am looking at the Scriptures you presented. I still don't see from it a pre trib position for the catching away. Even the word rapture is not in the gospel. I would lose the term for that alone. In Matthew 24 Jesus said after (NOT BEFORE) the tribulation of those days you will see the sun darken and the son of man appearing in the clouds. I would rather trust the Scripture then a 10 virgin conjecture rationale to support what I don't see in the Scripture to support your position, and my eyes are just fine. Jesus even warns don't believe a secret coming and that every eye will see Him when he comes the second time. The Scripture says the coming of the Lord not the comings of the Lord. The rapture teaching originate with Margret McDonald. She might make a good hamburger but that's it.
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The word 'Rapture is not in the bible....Ok SO I don't believe in it.
The word gravity is not mentioned in the bible....Ok So I don't believe in it
The bible does not mention electricity, computers, pickup trucks, and many other things we take for granted. Why do we pick one single word and base a doctrine on it?
The word gravity is not mentioned in the bible....Ok So I don't believe in it
The bible does not mention electricity, computers, pickup trucks, and many other things we take for granted. Why do we pick one single word and base a doctrine on it?
Samuel23,
Regarding the gathering of the church, explain the following:
Rev.19:6-8 reveals the bride receiving her fine linen, white and clean, which takes place in heaven and at the wedding of the Lamb. Who is the bride?
Rev.19:14 reveals the armies in heaven following the Lord "out of heaven" as he is returning to the earth to end the age. Who are those armies following the Lord out of heaven?
Notice that the armies that are following Christ out of heaven are wearing the same fine linen, white and clean that was previously given to the bride.
In describing the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, Rev.17:14 identifies those who will be with the Lord when he returns, which are those "called, chosen and faithful followers. These are the same who received the fine linen and are shown following the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses.
These armies following the Lord out of heaven wearing their fine linen, white and clean, are the individuals of the church who those of the dead in Christ who will have been resurrected and the living in Christ who will have been changed and caught up. This is that army that is following Christ out of heaven.
In order for the church to be receiving fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb and then follow the Lord out of heaven, it demonstrates that the church must already be in heaven.
There is no need to wave a magic wand here. It is by cross-referencing and comparing scripture that we understand that the Lord is going to gather His church prior to the 1st seal being opened, which initiates His wrath and which we are not appointed to suffer.
God does not punish or destroy the righteous with the wicked. And we therefore believe that the Lord will keep His promise and come to get the church prior to His wrath being poured out, seeing that the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect the entire planet. Those promises are that Christ rescues us from the coming wrath and that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath.
In opposition, you who believe that the Church is gathered when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, are truly not believing that Christ took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve and that because you believe that we will go through that wrath.
In addition, you are not looking for the blessed hope, the appearing of our Lord to gather His church. Consequently, it would be no blessed hope if he was to gather the church after his wrath. Nor could we do what Paul said to do, which is to comfort one another with the hope of his appearing to gather us.
It is important to understand that the gathering of the church is a separate event vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
It is also Important to discern between the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would suffer, which comes at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming, unprecedented wrath. The first one happens because of our testimony of Jesus and the word of God. While the latter will be directly poured out upon a Christ rejecting world and those who continue to willfully live according to the sinful nature.
Regarding the gathering of the church, explain the following:
Rev.19:6-8 reveals the bride receiving her fine linen, white and clean, which takes place in heaven and at the wedding of the Lamb. Who is the bride?
Rev.19:14 reveals the armies in heaven following the Lord "out of heaven" as he is returning to the earth to end the age. Who are those armies following the Lord out of heaven?
Notice that the armies that are following Christ out of heaven are wearing the same fine linen, white and clean that was previously given to the bride.
In describing the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, Rev.17:14 identifies those who will be with the Lord when he returns, which are those "called, chosen and faithful followers. These are the same who received the fine linen and are shown following the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses.
These armies following the Lord out of heaven wearing their fine linen, white and clean, are the individuals of the church who those of the dead in Christ who will have been resurrected and the living in Christ who will have been changed and caught up. This is that army that is following Christ out of heaven.
In order for the church to be receiving fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb and then follow the Lord out of heaven, it demonstrates that the church must already be in heaven.
There is no need to wave a magic wand here. It is by cross-referencing and comparing scripture that we understand that the Lord is going to gather His church prior to the 1st seal being opened, which initiates His wrath and which we are not appointed to suffer.
God does not punish or destroy the righteous with the wicked. And we therefore believe that the Lord will keep His promise and come to get the church prior to His wrath being poured out, seeing that the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect the entire planet. Those promises are that Christ rescues us from the coming wrath and that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath.
In opposition, you who believe that the Church is gathered when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, are truly not believing that Christ took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve and that because you believe that we will go through that wrath.
In addition, you are not looking for the blessed hope, the appearing of our Lord to gather His church. Consequently, it would be no blessed hope if he was to gather the church after his wrath. Nor could we do what Paul said to do, which is to comfort one another with the hope of his appearing to gather us.
It is important to understand that the gathering of the church is a separate event vs. the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.
It is also Important to discern between the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would suffer, which comes at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. God's coming, unprecedented wrath. The first one happens because of our testimony of Jesus and the word of God. While the latter will be directly poured out upon a Christ rejecting world and those who continue to willfully live according to the sinful nature.
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The only way you can ever understand "The Calling Out of the Bride", is if you first establish a Genuine, Inner Personal, LOVE relationship with JESUS CHRIST as LORD, as you willingly surrender complete control of your life to HIM as MASTER. THEN, and only then will you gain a deeper understanding, especially if you also seriously study the Jewish Wedding Traditions and Customs.
You are missing the point. It is not about you or anyone else presenting your personal reasons as to WHY there should be a pre-trib rapture, none of that matters at all, that is why I do not address it. I could write a book on why there should be no hell, and I could find a lot in the bible to use to support my premise, you don't get it, bible study is not about us making up our mind about what we want to believe and then searching diligently to find reasons in the bible to support that premise. With that approach we could make a case for almost anything. Real bible study involves truthful reading of the in context message WITHOUT TRYING TO PROVE ANYTHING, we should be trying to see what the bible actually says. If you approach the bible from that perspective you will find that the bible teaches a post-trib gathering of the church.
I can show you a multitude of them, but I am sure you will not understand any of them, and will think they are pure foolishness.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
B
I know about Jewish weddings the groom goes away and the bride doesn't know when he is coming for her. That doesn't prove from Scripture a pre trib rapture. Please don't patronize me. The only thing that supports the rapture is all inference. I don't need inference. I have explicit Scripture. Paul said don't be deceived for that day will not happen until there is a falling away first and the man of sin is revealed (AntiChrist) 2 Thes... Until we see the man of sin and a falling away, you can be sure Jesus is not returning until after that time. God is not coming to rescue Christians from their color TV sets and electric blankets. There will be persecution such as has never been before in the world and many of us will be killed for our faith. Stop listening to the inferences you've been taught by men and look at the Scriptures.