Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Another way of expressing this, he who walks in rebellion and sin will not see life, will
experience the second death, and no matter the protestations of faith in Christ,
their life will testify to the truth or otherwise of this.

Get t right peter

he who walks In sin and rebellion has not seen God or known him. 1 John 3:6

never means never

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Do we pick grapes from a thorn bush, or figs from thistles?
The fruit shows the tree from which it comes.

the problem the unsaved see good fruit when it is bad, so they can. It differentiate God from the bad, because they are not born of God. Yet many of them call themselves fruit inspectors

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Talk about drawing near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

Actually perfect love casts out fear, but since you can't be perfect, then why seek what he meant in Matthew 5:48:

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46

17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:17-18

1 John 3:4-9
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2 Peter 1:9

so if whoever sin has never seen god or known him 1john 3: 6

what does that tell us about thepose who are adopted children of a god who have seen him and know him?

 

[Ariel82]

so if whoever sin has never seen god or known him 1john 3: 6

what does that tell us about thepose who are adopted children of a god who have seen him and know him?

That they will be chastens and learn to walk holy lives.

Perfect means spiritually mature....yet I wonder how many God would give that crown of righteousness to?

Not much peacefulness this morning here?

****

Hebrews 12
4In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?

“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
6For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”

7It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

 

[PeterJens]

Yes peter I hear loud and clear,

i put gods gods words into practice, why? Because I have tre faith in God, not because I trust myself and am trying to get saved or maintain my salvation,

the rock is jesism i build build my house on the rock, not on the law, not on myself (works) not on my church, or what over men tell me, but on Christ.

obedince is by faith Peter, not by self effort, if we trust god, we will do what h said, if we do not have fai we will not, plain and simple.

Again, apwithout faith it is impossible to please him, period,

you dd did not change your heart Peter, you can't change your heart, stop takin credit and give it to God, all you can do is say yes Lord.

you can repent and start to trust God, because HE HAS TO CHANGE YOUR HEART. As scripture says, He God) will write his law on your heart, not you, but your u can not change your heart.

Your example is bad Peter. You can not learn how to ride a bike, God has to teach you, br frst you have to have faith to get on, fall off, then get on again, and allow God to guide you, when you learn one part, two on to next party and keep going until you master it through God,

just don't forget the other parts, you will be running the race to learn how to w to master the bike until you die,

the lack of faith in Christ is staggering, but then the religious will always be pointing out how w righteous they are, in spite of the fact the light f Gods word tells them how they fall short, and Are in need to repent, because they are trusting self and reject Christ,

So peter, when are you going to hear God?

EG - Firstly, why are you telling me what I am doing when it is all projection.

Paul says we are not to do evil, and continue in the passions of the flesh.
So why are you continually saying you sin every day, commiting evil?

If you are sowing to the flesh you will reap death. So repent, turn from your
ways and follow Christ.

Now telling me the gospel when I follow Jesus is pointless. You are stuck in a repeat
mode of spewing ideas without focus or a foundation.

Now my friend, we call people to repent of evil deeds.
Breaking the 10 commandments is a good example.

Love God, no graven images, do not take Gods name in vain, honour Gods rest,
honour your parents, do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not
lie about anyone, do not covet.

In the Spirit we are slaves to righteousness and uphold the law.

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
rom 3:31

And what is my boast in? Being raised to life in Christ and walking in His grace and
love, empowered by the cross. Amen.

But here is the double speak. "Obedience is by faith"
What they mean is to believe is obedience, not to do.

Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.
Rom 1:5

We obey Christ because we believe in Him.
We do not understand how obedience changes us, Christ calls us to obey.

 

[PeterJens]

Get t right peter

he who walks In sin and rebellion has not seen God or known him. 1 John 3:6

never means never

Then if you daily walk in sin and rebellion you have not seen God or known Him.

 

[PeterJens]

the problem the unsaved see good fruit when it is bad, so they can. It differentiate God from the bad, because they are not born of God. Yet many of them call themselves fruit inspectors

This does not make sense.
Jesus is saying look at a teacher. Is their heart kind and loving, are they being gentle and building
people up or tearing them down? Is their intention to bring people to God and holiness, or to continue
in sin and evil?

The product of their words is either thorns or thistles, ie they are harsh with people, do not allow others
to get close to them and hurt and tear people apart, or loving and upbuilding, gentle and desiring the
best in peoples lives.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG - Firstly, why are you telling me what I am doing when it is all projection.

Paul says we are not to do evil, and continue in the passions of the flesh.
So why are you continually saying you sin every day, commiting evil?

If you are sowing to the flesh you will reap death. So repent, turn from your
ways and follow Christ.

Now telling me the gospel when I follow Jesus is pointless. You are stuck in a repeat
mode of spewing ideas without focus or a foundation.

Now my friend, we call people to repent of evil deeds.
Breaking the 10 commandments is a good example.

Love God, no graven images, do not take Gods name in vain, honour Gods rest,
honour your parents, do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not
lie about anyone, do not covet.

In the Spirit we are slaves to righteousness and uphold the law.

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
rom 3:31

And what is my boast in? Being raised to life in Christ and walking in His grace and
love, empowered by the cross. Amen.

But here is the double speak. "Obedience is by faith"
What they mean is to believe is obedience, not to do.

Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.
Rom 1:5

We obey Christ because we believe in Him.
We do not understand how obedience changes us, Christ calls us to obey.

peter i place my faith in Christ,

i obey god god because I have faith in him and I understand that is what changes me (it causes me to be obedient)

you place your your faith in how good you are

i depend on god to change me,

you claim you must change yourself

i claim faith in God to save me

you say you do, then double back and say you must save yourself by maintaining your salvation

if you want to talk about sanctificarion Peter, I will be glad to,

but let's get justification and eternal life figured out first, otherwise, sanctification is useless self efforts which may make a person look holy on the outside, but is useless as for as eternal things go.

 

[FranC]

So the Bible doesn't matter yet it is the mind of Christ and the Word of God? Which one is it?

Listen to me Zmouth.

If you're looking for truth, don't look to Dcon.
He not only doesn't have the truth,
he doesn't even know HOW TO EXPRESS what he does know.

Apparently he never taught religion or faith.

Go to someone who can teach you.
A good Church would be a nice start.
Or someone her you can trust.
Peter Jens is good
PHart is good
LoveGodForever is good.

I'm sorry I can't think of anyone else right now.
There are those who understand the word of God plainly and simply.
There are those who EMBELLLISH it to make it suit their own needs.

Also, read the gospels yourself. Jesus is speaking TO YOU.

It is NOT DIFFICULT to understand the bible. It's only difficult when persons like Dcon make it so.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then if you daily walk in sin and rebellion you have not seen God or known Him.

your right, meaning you have NEVER been saved, not that you lost salvation.

john also said whoever is born of God does not daily walk in sin and rebellion,

so so why do you keep saying gods people can, and make obedience a requirement for salvation, when joh said ALL of Gods Children WILL obey? As if they may not do it?

 

[PennEd]

it seems that there is no fear of God in some people, they think that they are sinless. me, I do fear God, and His righteous judgement, so I dare not stand on my own goodness and righteousness , I know it is far short of His perfect and holy standards.

I trust my Lord and Savior Jesus,

This post needs to be bumped every morning! Full of truth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This does not make sense.
Jesus is saying look at a teacher. Is their heart kind and loving, are they being gentle and building
people up or tearing them down? Is their intention to bring people to God and holiness, or to continue
in sin and evil?

The product of their words is either thorns or thistles, ie they are harsh with people, do not allow others
to get close to them and hurt and tear people apart, or loving and upbuilding, gentle and desiring the
best in peoples lives.

wow, if a preacher is teaching sin, hen run, if he s teaching get saved so you can be like Christ, then amen

i do not have to inspect his fruit to understand that.

by the way, NO ONE here is teaching it is ok to sin, in spite of your insistence they do,

 

[FranC]

True faith will have a corresponding action of some kind.

Let's look at what James says about faith & it's corresponding "work" in relation to having eternal life now and forever because we heard the message of Christ and believed on Him - then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies. Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.


James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22[/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out nor contradict the basic truth of believing in Christ brings eternal life when we hear the true message of Christ's work and that we have the forgiveness of sins.

We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith with a corresponding action or a "work".

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus said to do the work of God was to believe in the Son.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is faith with corresponding action - or a work. This is how we are saved by grace through faith just like Paul said.

James talk about "faith" and "works" is in relation to helping out our fellow man that is in need.

Grace,
This is for PHart and he'll answer for himself.

I just want to say that I'm a bit tired of hearing that Abraham had faith first and then years later he proved his faith by offering ISAAC.

Didn't Abraham do anything BEFORE THAT?

Didn't he leave two home? One in ur and one in Ur and one in Haran?
Did he not give the best land to his Nephew Lot?

Are we reading the same bible?
Are we just parroting things we hear without thinking??

Abraham's first work was not offering Isaac.
He Always listened to the word from God and OBEYED it.

 

[Ariel82]

FranC I saw your post to me and I disagree we are not justified or proven God's children by our works.

God tells us some will say "Lord did we not do miracles in your name?" and be rejected. Its not our outward works that matter but the inward change GOD WORKS within our hearts and minds that really matter.

It is when we learn from the Holy Spirit to add to our faith these things do we become fruitful and purified unto good works God has created us for. God will test our works but if we have Christ as our foundation we will be saved even if all are works & doctrines prove hay and stubble.

What matters is a true saving faith in Jesus....not a heathen faith in God to reward good deeds and punish evil ones (works salvation). Not a demon's faith that gives mental assent to who Jesus is but no real trust of love for Him (this is your dead faith you and others keep referring to which does not save). Not the faith of disciples when He physically walked with them before the cross: able to do miracles but not understanding or completely trusting in the finished work of the cross or Jesus plan for salvation by faith alone (old covenant thinking)

Faith and NOT works seems to be a ray of light some will hide from but it's clearly found in the Bible.

Saving faith is more than mental assent, more than trust in a just God, more than the old covenant. It is Faith in Jesus finished work on the cross for the remission of sins, His resurrection, ascension to heaven.

Salvation begins when He sends the Holy spirit to seal us and allow us to cry out Abba father. Until then folks may claim to be Christian but are just fooling themselves and others and going through the motions.

The Holy spirit with transform the heart and mind. God chastens every child and fruit will become evident in the lives of each born again child of God: love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness and self control.

God will fed His Kids milk until their wounds are healed and they are made strong in His love. He will embraces us and tell us we are new creations in Christ. He holds up a mirror and shows us who He has made us to be. He shows us what true love is and then tells us to love others as He has lived us. He tells us to be a light in this dark world, to be His ambassadors and preach His truth in love.

Nothing above do I count as "good works" or our "works of righteousness". They are just a part of who God has made us and happen as naturally for God's kids as breathing or learning to walk beside our Father.

It is not work. It is abiding in Him.


The good works start when we interact with the world and have to live the lessons God reaches us.

It happens when we learn to tame our tongues, when we encourage our siblings, when we operate in the spiritual gifts given us to minister to the Church and the world. When we feed the poor, visit orphans and clothe the naked. One hopes we feed them with spiritual food that points to the Bread of life, Jesus Christ the Manna from Heaven. One hopes we tell orphans that They have a heavenly father as well as care for their physical needs in this life. One hopes we show them how We once were naked too but have since been clothed in Christ's righteousness and white robes of His mercy and grace...that we learn to us the Spiritual armor God has placed upon us to allow us to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Yet I doubt you will read this page long post.

If I answer you simply you find fault or twist simple words by adding your own to make it mean what was not intended.

If I answer you fully, you say it's too long,

 

[Ariel82]

Here is a simple answer:

If your foundation is not Christ Jesus, then no amount of works can "prove" your salvation.

If you have a saving faith in Jesus, then it is not good works that "prove" that you are saved but THE HOLY SPIRIT seal and chastening and transforming influence in your life that will show THE WORLD that you are saved.

GOD DOES NOT NEED PROOF, He knows who are His.

 

[Ariel82]

James 1

2Count it all joy, my brothers,b when you meet trials of various kinds, 3for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

5If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways

 

[Ariel82]

18Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

19Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; 20for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God. 21Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.

 

[Ariel82]

What is the law of liberty spoken here?

James 1
25But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.


If you keep reading James talks of taming our tongues and visiting widows and orphans. That gives us a hint.

Our words reveal our hearts and our actions reveal our love.

 

[PHart]

Ariel,
Good deeds, or works, are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY and this should be stated with no reservation or page-long explanations.

Yeah, I know. Funny isn't it.
Paragraph after paragraph of Christians defending the case for dead faith. The dead faith that James says won't save, yet is being so vehemently defended here. But I know that is where the church is at in this time of human history. We've got it in our heads that we don't have to do anything or <gasp!> we'd be guilty of trying to earn our own salvation. We got a lot of people thinking God is going to heap praise on them when they give Christ back his One Talent when he returns because God is just so loving and gracious that way! I can hear their voices already...."let me in, let me in!"

 

[Ariel82]

James preaches against partiality, we would call it also hyprocrisy. If we treat others based upon their nice clothes and material wealth, then we have sinned. Also if we judge others sins and not our own, then we will be found guilty.

James says this:

*****
James 2
12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged under the law of liberty. 13For judgment is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

****

I wonder how many understand how mercy triumphs over judgement?

How the cross defeats the accusations of Satan that all sinners deserve death and hell?

How many people really understand what is going on spiritually?