Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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That is a lie and not at all what I believe as I have stated, over and over.

Does it feel good to exalt yourself and put others down by lying about what is being said?

Didn't you make the statement that folks only hear what has been indoctrinated into them?

Are you blind than to your own log you accuse others of doing what you just did yourself?

I have stated over and over that the Holy spirit will change lives.

I don't believe in the dead faith of demons will save.,,mental accent is not enough. Neither is the heathen faith of works salvation or faith in the old covenant.

A saving faith is in Jesus and His finished work on the cross for the remission of sins and His resurrection and ascension to Heaven.


Only when someone has a saving faith and confesses with their mouth this saving faith is the Holy Spirit sent to seal a person unto salvation. Only then are they truly saved. The Holy spirit with chasren and teach each of God's born again children .

..If this doesn't happen, then they may not have a saving faith in Jesus and have been deceived by false gospels and lies of this world that lead them away from God and His light instead of towards it,
What amazes me Ariel is the fact that the workers for embellish, lie and falsely accuse more than El diablo.....I still cannot figure out how that helps them earn their way into the kingdom....Proverbs 6........
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Just have to throw this in, just to think about. The thief on the cross...Was his works, that he believed Jesus, and was sorry for what he did? Just wondering
John 6 said it is the work of God that we believe in him

It also says it is Gods will that everyone who sees and believes will live forever, never die, Has eternal life,

Did the theif on the cross fulfill those two things?

Oh, and his work, it was telling the other person that he was guilty and Jesus was not, and by doing so, he proved he had true saving faith in God. but he did not have to do that, jesus knew if his faith was real or not the fact jesus told him he had eternal life, was proof God accepted his faith, and credited to him as righteousness, just like he did abraham.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Funny.

I never read peter Jens call anyone a derogatory name.

Much as I hear from "your side".

Wonder why that is?
Wonder WHO is following the word of God?
Sure....I remember him calling me a psychopath and a few other names...so...either you have a poor memory, don't read or just sweep the truth under the table like normal....
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You were doing so good, until you said this:

it is not a requirement, it is a result.

WHY is it necessary to say this?

It IS a REQUIREMENT.

Why not just admit it?

Romans 2:13
Not the hearers of the word are just before God, but the doers of the word...

No, it is not a requirement, The law demands requirments, Grace demands faith.

People who have true faith WILL have works. You evidently believe one can have faith and not have works.. Which tells me you do not understand what true faith is.

so instead of trying to learn what it means, You have it in your mind your going to earn salvation by your works, . Good luck..
 
Feb 24, 2015
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If so, then he has no part in the kingdom. Still in the kingdom of darkness.

Not good.
We are counted as righteous not because of Christs righteousness but because of our
faith, like Abraham was counted righteous because of his faith.

Our behaviour needs to be blameless, but it is our relationship with the Father that
brings us righteousness.

The other view is Christs righteousness covers us, so God does not see our sin.
This leads to countless errors of relationship and belief.

We go from darkness into light because our sins are forgiven through the cross.
Christs righteousness makes this possible.

This is the reason for the dispute between Wesley and Whitefield, and the whole
discussion about future sin forgiven or we can walk righteously empowered by the Spirit.

It is a shift that Augustine started, that Luther and Calvin continued. But to be honest most
believers have no clue it even exists. It excuses failure and the struggle with our hearts and
our behaviour which Paul talks about in Romans 7.

Paul talks about the flesh dominating until he came to faith in Christ, and died with Christ,
and rose in the Spirit to victory over sin.

If you do not sin in the future, future sin forgiven is irrelevant but is actually a statement
of unbelief, because sin is too frivously defined and lived.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Not starting a war bro, but you have been saying now for over 14, 000 posts that since it is not a work of ourselves and of Christ alone, we do not fall, we cannot, he keeps us sealed, we are his forever, it is all eternal, no works needed, but now you are asking me if I ever have fallen, got up and re-dedicated....
Falling (loss of salvation) is not the same as falling out of line, (prodigal son)

Why does that seem hard for people to understand this is the difference of what I am talking about?


IF I am OSAS why do I need to think I would fall, need to get back up and then re-dedicate.....why is this rinse and repeat of the OSAS doctrine?...I will fall, get up and re-dedicate...why should I bother, if it is not by personal saving faith or my personal works that save me, but totally all him , his grace and his own faith, why would I fall, have to get back up and re-dedicate!?!?!?
Well unless you think you are perfect sinless (as some people here do) then you have to understand that you walk away from God on occasion, You fall into a sin pattern and realise it through Gods chastening, and make a commitment to start changing that habit in the power of God.

There are many reasons you may recommit.

Again, Your trying to account falling away with salvation, Who said it was salvation?

Are we saved by works, thats what you seem to be hinting at..

ie, I fall, I have to repent to get resaved, I fall, I have to repent to get resaved, I fall, I have to repent to get resaved.

see an issue here, this is what legalism teaches,



Which is it EG, you cannot have cake and eat it too, can you?
I never asked for my cake, and eat it too.

I never claimed one could lose salvation, Recommit does not mean the same as being resaved If I lost salvation, I would not recommit, I would ask God to save me again, because I lost mine.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Faith without works is a car without any oil or gas.

Faith exists to open the door to make us into the image of Christ who is the image
of the Father.

Or is a hot air ballon without a burner so not hot air.

If you cannot travel and change there is no point at all.
Wrong

Belief is a car without oil and gas, It has no faith, so it tries to add all kinds of things to the tank to get it to run, It may run for a bit, but eventually, it breaks down, because until you put the real gas in the tank, the car will never run right.

When you add the fuel (GOD, and the gospel) and learn to trust in it, the car goes. and does what it was created to do.

Yet again, You insert self where God needs to be inserted.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Does the following talk about imputed righteousness?

Romans 3:21-26
God's Righteousness Through Faith
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
How 'bout the two people who have used the example of the thief on the cross to dismiss James' teaching for all the rest of us? They claim because of his example NO ONE has to have works attached to their faith to be saved. Even though James specifically says the faith that has no works attached (dead faith) can NOT save.

I can see how you could intperpret that. I would disagree with them, for one the thief did have works, He called out and confessed Jesus was lord to the other thief.

I must ask, if you do not believe those were works. If the thief would have lived longer, would he have had works if he had true saving faith, or would he continued to live in sin, like some insinuate?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Originally Posted by FranC


Funny.

I never read peter Jens call anyone a derogatory name.

Much as I hear from "your side".

Wonder why that is?
Wonder WHO is following the word of God?


Sure....I remember him calling me a psychopath and a few other names...so...either you have a poor memory, don't read or just sweep the truth under the table like normal....
He has called me every name in the book like - satanic, a lover of sinning, heretic, delusional, a hater of those that walk righteously, a hater of God's word and a hater of the words of Jesus....etc.

I asked him several times to stop this ungodly behavior but he kept at it - so unfortunately I had to put him on ignore and not interact with him anymore until there is repentance.

I think it so amusing that some of those that say we are to walk righteously and in purity of heart have some of the worse behavior I have ever witnessed among Christians. I don't see any difference between this sort of behavior and those Christians that say it's ok to live the homosexual lifestyle.
 
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blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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I've been told I have a simplistic way of presenting the truth.. :)

The truth is, to be eligible for God's kingdom, you need only be saved by grace through faith and belief in Jesus Christ..

Honestly, that really isn't so hard to comprehend..
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Sure....I remember him calling me a psychopath and a few other names...so...either you have a poor memory, don't read or just sweep the truth under the table like normal....
Never called you a psychopath, but you seemed to want to take this to heart, so who
am I to deny a label you want to own.

What is funny is this accusation coming from someone who uses labels all the time
actual or implied. But then that is why if an example is given of a problem, you automatically
apply it to yourself because that is how you think when you are giving examples.

It should be assumed examples are just that, not aimed at any individual unless actually
applied to a person in particular. There was a time when people were more reluctant to
label so clearly, but now that seems to have gone out of the window.

And by the way I try not to name call, but rather describe how people come across.
So this continual accusation I used the psychopath example specific to you, is an
example of unsubstantiated slander. But then those who have no problem with slander
use these arguments all the time. But then maybe without a conscience, upsetting people
is just not an issue, or even sinning against them.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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Zmouth,

It's kind of difficult to see that tiny writing.

From what I know, it's accepted that John the Apostle wrote the gospel of John and the 3 epistles and also Revelation.
You could tell by how he referred to himself in the first person.
He is referred to as the Beloved Disciple and this was certainly John the Apostle.
John 21:20, 23.24.

Irenaeus testifies to the effect that this is John, son of Zebedee.
(He was an early Church theologian).
So who were the two witnesses that claimed Jesus said he would destroy the temple? I presume that they were referring when Jesus said no stone would be left upon stone but apparently there were two witnesses that rose up again him

60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false witnesses,
61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the temple of God, and to build it in three days.
Matt 26:60-61

So if these witnesses were testifying about Jesus claiming that no two stones would be left upon each other then wouldn't they be subject to death for giving false testimony under the OT law ( Deut 19:16-19
states)

16 If a false witness rise up against any man to testify against him that which is wrong;
17 Then both the men, between whom the controversy is, shall stand before the LORD, before the priests and the judges, which shall be in those days;
18 And the judges shall make diligent inquisition: and, behold, if the witness be a false witness, and hath testified falsely against his brother;
19 Then shall ye do unto him, as he had thought to have done unto his brother: so shalt thou put the evil away from among you.


So who were the two that could have testified against Jesus since there was nobody with Jesus except for disciples outside the temple when he spoke about the destruction of the temple.


35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come unto him, saying, Master, we would that thou shouldest do for us whatsoever we shall desire.
36 And he said unto them, What would ye that I should do for you?
37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
Mark 10:35-40


Yes. The known world was under one ruler. Caesar means god.
Since Pharaoh sent Noah to the Americas and the NT speaks of the churches in Asia, yeah I would say all the known world.

Caesers were gods, until they got sick or died, then they realized they weren't gods after all. But it must have been nice for them to be treated as one since they were pagans all the way.
Wonder what it meant in the OT wherein it is written, Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people. Ex 22:28

Well, the days our of flesh are numbered the same as the days of those born of the dust of the ground, 120 years. Yet the dust gives up the spirit in their nostrils and the soul in the heart of the flesh shines on.

And no, I do not know Latin.
Thanks for the info.
As you probably already know, Julius Caesar was the assassinated ruler of the Roman Republic and was granted the title posthumously of Divus Julius (Divine or Immortal Julius) by the Senate of the Roman Republic in 42 BC. I guess that would be like God-man to Christians.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I like to use the example of going swimming.
Faith without works is like saying you're swimming in the pool and you're bone dry. And then pontificating profusely how surely you are declared by the owner of the pool to be one swimming in the pool. Oh, and that being wet is no proof that you are. That's not necessary.

I like to see it as we are all in a storm at sea. we will all perish if we are not rescued, because we can not save ourself

Then God comes, and offers to save us, But he will not force us to be saved, he asks us to want to.

Some do not think they need saved (they are blind) and reject his offer,

Some are too proud to give up their right so quickly, so thy say yes, God save me, when God tries, they add their own power in an attempt to save themselves (for any lifegaurd you know how dangerous this this, You can actually get killed if the person who is draowing does not completely relax and let you completely save him, so you must let them go, even if they die)

Some say yes lord, Save me, and do not fight or try to save themselves, Just let God do what God has to do.

When that person gets back to shore, he is indebted to the one who saved him, He trusts that person with his life, he will gladly and without work, honor that person and do things to puff that person up and give him glory (works)
 
Feb 24, 2015
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A sinner is someone who sins, but breaking one of the commandments.
Sinning is not inventing a rule or issue and then breaking it. That is hyper legalism,
which is an OCD complex, possibly related to PTSD.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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Hebrews 12:28

Hebrews 12:1

Paul is speaking about those that came before.
Abraham
Isaac
Jacob
Joseph
Moses
Rehab

These that were protected against fire, lions, swords,

These that came before were heroes, encouraging us to start running and to never stop.
Hebrews 12:1

We are to keep our eyes on Jesus who already ran the race and showed us how it is done. Jesus never took His eyes off the goal. He could put up with anything to get there...the cross, shame, whatever was necessary. And now He is with God in a place of Honor.
Hebrews 12:2

When we find ourselves failing in our faith, we are to remember His story, the tribulation he went through. This should encourage us.
Hebrews 12:3

God educates us with discipline. This is what good parents do. We should accept God's training because He is doing it for our own good.
Hebrews 12:4-8

God is training us to LIVE OUR HOLY BEST. it's the well-trained who find themselves to be well off with God.
Hebrews 12:9-11

So don't just sit around and do nothing. Get along well with each other and with God. Watch out for the ESAU SYNDROME...
Trading GOD'S LIFE-LONG GIFT, to satisfy a SHORT-TERM APPETITE. Esau later regretted his decision.
Hebrews 12:12-17

Unlike these ancestors, the new people of God did not go to Mr. Sinai but to Mt. Zion. THIS IS WHERE GOD LIVES.
The INVISIBLE JERUSALEM. It is full of people of God, Christian citizens. Here God is the judge. Jesus is the mediator of a New covenant. Unlike the murder of Abel, Jesus' Death became a cry for grace.
Hebrews 12:17-24

Do not refuse God who speaks. If we turn away from Him who speaks to us from heaven, it will be worse than having turned away from him who spoke from earth. God will give us one last shake, and one thing cannot be shaken (the Kingdom).
Hebrews 12:25-27

Therefore be happy that we are rceiving a Kingdom that cannot be shaken. We must be thankful, worshipping and revering God with awe. God is Always cleaning house and he will burn everything until all is clean. God Himself is fire.
Hebrews 12:28
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Yes, once again it's been entertaining to see the church pontificate about how salvation is by faith apart from works (which it is), and then say for that reason you do not have to have works attached to your faith to be saved, but then they'll turn right around and insist that they are not saying dead faith (faith without works attached) saves. Lol!

You should say....Once again I lie about what is really being said while pushing a false gospel.....so tell me...how does lying and embellishing what one states help your works for salvation café blend gospel?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I guess the same way a person can believe the Gospel is free because it is freely given.

Proverbs 23:23
But the gospel is free.

Faith is said to work. lack of work shows no faith. so they are not the same. One is contradictory to what the true meaning of the word is.
 
Apr 30, 2016
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And you are getting on my nerves by continually slandering me by making this false accusation.

SHow me where I said or insinuated works are evil. Just one place.

Until then, Make this claim one more time, and I will report you!!!



You said they say works are evil. When they have not, THAT IS SLANDER.

You shall not bear fALSE WITNESS. do you even understand what that means?




Yet God said he will complete that work, Why do you say God will not?

Who is your faith in then, God or yourself Fran? Come in, Admit it. WHo are you trusting? Fran to complete it or God to compete it?

God said he will. Did God lie? (he never said he woudl faith if you do not allow him, He said he will complete his work until the day of Christ PERIOD




Where have I said I do nto do works? Your the ones who keep preaching we deny works, We think they are evil, We think sin is ok.

Show us where we say it?
EG,

If you follow the little quote marks, you'll find that Ariel made the original statement.
Then you answered to it and I answered you and that's how it got mixed up.

BTW, who are you going to report me to?
If you report me, all the more should I report Dcon.
We could start acting like Kindergarteners, we're not far off anyway...

I quote scripture and I quote theology --- the study of God.

It is what it is. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but what I post is what theologians say, not what I "think".