Not By Works

[FranC]

Who is james speaking to. WHo does it prove it to.

Does God need proof. I mean seriously Fran, Does God need proof.
Do I need to have proof that you are saved? Does anyone else need to have proof that you are saved?

WHo is he talking to Fran?

Is he not talking to the people who are hearers not doers. Who say they have faith, but have zero zip nada works.

if I have works, Why do I need james to tell me to test my faith, if I have works, I already proved that my faith is real. Why do I still need warned?

Who is James speaking to?
So you think he's speaking to the 12 tribes scattered abroad?

So were they now Christian or not?
Are we to examine EVERY LETTER and makes sure it's written to US??

And who are we? How do we determine that WE are included in the letter?

As I'm sure you must know, the "12 Tribes" was used to mean THE ENTIRE JEWISH NATION.

So, can we assume, as theologians do, that James was speaking to Jews who had come to accept Jesus as their Lord?

The Christian jews who were dispersed abroad.

If you don't agree with this, please explain why not.

Maybe you'd like to list each and every letter and tell us who it was written to?

I've Always thought that the N.T. was written to ALL CHRISTIANS.
you don't agree?? Why?

 

[Meggido]

Catholic confesses a sin to get forgiveness.

People rededicate themselves in front of people to have accountability, they want to to share they have had some struggles, and wish to rededicate their lives. And they want everyone to hold them accountable..

We do this in discipleship when we have an issue, we confess it, Ask for Gods help. and accountability partner, and grow from there.

Not even close to being the same.

This is not re-dedication I have witnessed or been forced to do as a kid and teenager...Re-dedication was repenting for sins and coming back to God....and promising never to do the sin or leave him again

What you are describing is christian accountability pact and not bona-fide OSAS re-dedication.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Being sorry for our sins does NOT gain us salvation.. Grace through faith and belief in Jesus does.. Only 3 ingredients needed for salvation: grace, faith and belief.

Hi Seekingfamily,

Right.
We all could do only the works we could do.
Belief in jesus and being sorry for our sins gains us salvation.

After salvation God demands that we obey Him.
We are empowered to obey Him with the help of the Holy Spirit, but we MUST obey Him.

The thief on the cross was nailed to a cross. There was NO WORK he could do except to ask for forgiveness.

God is a just and merciful God. Those that ask this question seriouly and mockingly make fun of our God.

 

[BillG]

Yes, We had an alter call every sunday Again, I really do not see the need for them anymore.. If we have a question, we go talk after service.

I don't have an issue per-se with altar.

I think what I find sad is two fold.

Firstly being that if you don't go forward then God can't work in you.

Secondly from my experience I have seen the same people go forward every time.
Some I know off do this but their lives are a mess.
Its like they are relying on the caller's faith to help them and intercede for them.

I am not saying that going forward for prayer is wrong and an alter call is wrong.

But if someone is doing it every time maybe there is issues that need to be discussed on a personal level.
A safe environment for people to be honest and open, that maybe leads to discipleship.

 

[FranC]

If our eternal security and destination is based "on our good works" in order to "stay saved" - name every one of those works that we need to do. Don't leave one out.

How many of these should we do in order to remain saved? Name every one of the good works - we don't want to go to hell.

What if we don't have the same good works one year like we did the last year - does God throw us out of Christ then?

My goodness Grace but you could be silly.

No wonder it's difficut for you and those who agree with you.

Really, you have NO FAITH in Jesus.
THIS IS WHY YOU MUST BELIEVE THAT NOTHING IS NECESSARY FOR YOU TO DO...

B ECAUSE you don't even understand what it is you're SUPPOSED TO DO.

Incredible...

 

[FranC]

GOTCHA!!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The above is in reply to Zi.

I think you missed the highlighted sentence... it's ALL IMPORTANT.

I think you should stop picking verses out of scripture. and take them in context.

Verse three said we were not savedby works,

Paul did not contradict himself in verse 5 by saying we should maintain good works or risk losing salvation.

Both are important, Not just your highlighted part..

 

[Seekingfamily]

Also, about the babies killed. It makes me think about when Jesus said "Unless you come like one of these little ones" make me see, that babies already have a guarantee welcome into heaven. Just pondering

 

[Meggido]

I don't have an issue per-se with altar.

I think what I find sad is two fold.

Firstly being that if you don't go forward then God can't work in you.

Secondly from my experience I have seen the same people go forward every time.
Some I know off do this but their lives are a mess.
Its like they are relying on the caller's faith to help them and intercede for them.

I am not saying that going forward for prayer is wrong and an alter call is wrong.

But if someone is doing it every time maybe there is issues that need to be discussed on a personal level.
A safe environment for people to be honest and open, that maybe leads to discipleship.

Many, many years ago I was in charge of the Altar workers at a avg sized church-150-250 people. We had the same people coming up all the time. One guy in particular kept coming up and asking for prayer to get rid of his demon of anger...

I told him this...first, there is no demon of anger, it is a work of the flesh, second, I am not praying for you to get over your anger any more because you like your anger to much to surrender it to Jesus.

He stomped off and oh my the elders tried to make hay out of it and me...The Pastor said I discerned correctly....

The guy stopped coming to church and a few weeks later and one evening the Pastor called and asked me to join him on a hospital visit.

We got to the Hospital and the mans wife was there and said, Pastor thank you for bringing Meggido....you need to go see him Meggido...I walked into the room and the man looked like he had gone through a plate glass window. Both eyes swollen, cuts all over his face, broken bones, breathing on a ventilator, alive but very broken up.

The man told me how he loved getting mad and decided to get mad and take out some rage on a few guys at the local honky tonk....He met his match and nearly died in the bar fight....he began sobbing and said, ya know what preacher man...I want to get rid of that anger now...

Fast forward 2 years later and he is now elder in his church and living for God and has put anger into the hands of Jesus and does not suffer from it any longer.

We see unchanged lives because of easy believing mental assent...that suggests we are only a work in progress of God and do nothing to renew our minds or change our lives...in ongoing sanctification there is God's part and your part...this has nothing at all to do with salvation or keeping it...

 

[FranC]

I do love my brothers and sisters in Christ.....you seem to conflate love for a brother with my hatred of the false working for dogma that you and a few others push.....I have no problem with you per se, just what you espouse and teach which waters down and tramples under foot the blood and sacrifice of Jesus...

If I have my English correct, you don't mean conflate, you mean confuse.
learn the difference and stop using the word conflate.

 

[Seekingfamily]

Yes, the babies have no works, but they also don't have intent

 

[blue_ladybug]

There is a special place in hell for those who kill children. There's also a special place in hell for child molesters, rapists and serial killers..

Also, about the babies killed. It makes me think about when Jesus said "Unless you come like one of these little ones" make me see, that babies already have a guarantee welcome into heaven. Just pondering

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My dear boy,

You're telling ME, the one who demands that YOU proclaim that works are necessary, that i think SIN IS A GAME?

The game, my dear boy, is that YOU do what you claim Others do.

You are becoming a bit silly...

How else should I think?

You slander me by saying I think works are not necessary, and that they are evil, and that I think I can live in sin (or was it peter that just said the last one?


and then said I was just playing a game by saying those truths about what you have done.

If you think bearing false witness is a game, you have a serious problem!

 

[FranC]

If so, then he has no part in the kingdom. Still in the kingdom of darkness.

Not good.

Here we go again Stone.

What are you saying?

If Peter believes not in imputed righteousness...
and he has his doctrine wrong...
then he is lost?

So it's our doctrine that saves us?
I thought it was Jesus that saves us.

You do have God in a really tiny little box.
But have no fear, He's not staying in there just to please YOU.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who is James speaking to?
So you think he's speaking to the 12 tribes scattered abroad?

So were they now Christian or not?
Are we to examine EVERY LETTER and makes sure it's written to US??

And who are we? How do we determine that WE are included in the letter?

As I'm sure you must know, the "12 Tribes" was used to mean THE ENTIRE JEWISH NATION.

So, can we assume, as theologians do, that James was speaking to Jews who had come to accept Jesus as their Lord?

The Christian jews who were dispersed abroad.

If you don't agree with this, please explain why not.

Maybe you'd like to list each and every letter and tell us who it was written to?

I've Always thought that the N.T. was written to ALL CHRISTIANS.
you don't agree?? Why?

is it really this hard?

If you claim to have faith but have no works, Can YOUR faith save you..

Who was he speaking to? People who have works, people who live righteous lives, People who love God?

You tell me..

Again, is it hard?

 

[BillG]

Many, many years ago I was in charge of the Altar workers at a avg sized church-150-250 people. We had the same people coming up all the time. One guy in particular kept coming up and asking for prayer to get rid of his demon of anger...

I told him this...first, there is no demon of anger, it is a work of the flesh, second, I am not praying for you to get over your anger any more because you like your anger to much to surrender it to Jesus.

He stomped off and oh my the elders tried to make hay out of it and me...The Pastor said I discerned correctly....

The guy stopped coming to church and a few weeks later and one evening the Pastor called and asked me to join him on a hospital visit.

We got to the Hospital and the mans wife was there and said, Pastor thank you for bringing Meggido....you need to go see him Meggido...I walked into the room and the man looked like he had gone through a plate glass window. Both eyes swollen, cuts all over his face, broken bones, breathing on a ventilator, alive but very broken up.

The man told me how he loved getting mad and decided to get mad and take out some rage on a few guys at the local honky tonk....He met his match and nearly died in the bar fight....he began sobbing and said, ya know what preacher man...I want to get rid of that anger now...

Fast forward 2 years later and he is now elder in his church and living for God and has put anger into the hands of Jesus and does not suffer from it any longer.

We see unchanged lives because of easy believing mental assent...that suggests we are only a work in progress of God and do nothing to renew our minds or change our lives...in ongoing sanctification there is God's part and your part...this has nothing at all to do with salvation or keeping it...

Tears in my eyes and jumping with joy for deliverance and restoration.
I get your point.

It seems to me this man came forward for a persistent problem, and God has used you.

 

[FranC]

I will add this Brice, it is mostly the legalist Baptists that do this...the one's that have dress codes, hair length rules, will not eat port, do not go to movies, etc

There are persons alive and living that DON'T WATCH MOVIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MAY IT NEVER BE!!

 

[FranC]

Two trees exist in the garden of our heart. One must have the axe of Holy Spirit applied to the root to wilt and die that the tree of life has full access to us.

Taken from the kingdom of darkness, into the kingdom of Gods own dear Son.

Then we feed on His life as we "see" Him.

Allegorically is how I roll.

Stones don't roll.

Except for the Rolling Stones.
Of which you are not one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't have an issue per-se with altar.

I think what I find sad is two fold.

Firstly being that if you don't go forward then God can't work in you.

Secondly from my experience I have seen the same people go forward every time.
Some I know off do this but their lives are a mess.
Its like they are relying on the caller's faith to help them and intercede for them.

I am not saying that going forward for prayer is wrong and an alter call is wrong.

But if someone is doing it every time maybe there is issues that need to be discussed on a personal level.
A safe environment for people to be honest and open, that maybe leads to discipleship.

I have seen this too.. One of the reasons I did not like it,, It just seems like part of that ritualistic stuff I am gld to be out of.

We need to stop up and get help. That part i agree with, but there has to be a better way so people do not say look at me.

I sometimes wondered if a significant other made them do it, I saw alot of divorces after people supposedly rededicated themselves.

 

[FranC]

Sure....I remember him calling me a psychopath and a few other names...so...either you have a poor memory, don't read or just sweep the truth under the table like normal....

Not "like" normal...

"as" normal...