The truth behind the Law

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think you will find me ever saying the Law will save you. As of yet, I don't think I have seen anyone say that. Well other than you.

Sometimes you do not have to say it in words, you can actually deny it, yet still preach it.

I have seen seen it far to often, I have done it myself

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now who is preaching the 'letter of the law' we have been released from ? One mistake and we are done ? Come out of OT mentality friend...not yet heard of grace-forgiveness-compassion etc etc until we have learned and been perfected ?
In the NT Love is first...law is second, but always together !

if your going to preach works and obedience are required for salvation

the law is the only guide you have, because the law is the only guide that can condemn you

ot mentality? Grace was taught in the OT also, no one was ever saved by being obedient enough t earn the right to be gods child all men or women who will be saved have been and will be saved by grace through faith, even job spoke that he knew his redeemer would come. David understood the law was useless in saving him and no one in the OT could live up to the standard of the law, so the law would condemn them as much as it does us who have not come in faith,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are right we can not live up to the standers set down by that understanding. We all fall short of His glory, That is why, (sorry I am not using all caps out of disrespect for you. I am just hoping that every one will see it.)
HIS GRACE IS THERE FOR US ALL!!!!!!!!!!!

I do hope everyone will read that.

Amen gen to that, it is all we have standing between us and God that will allow is in his presence

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think you will find that anyone said, hinted at, or even insinuated any of that. I know full well I haven't. So when you make a claim, please be sure it does fit.

Or or maybe read closer, a few are saying it, even if they deny it.

 

[Rainrider]

(oops, I see that what I've been calling 27 & 28 are actually 17 & 18... my apologies!)

for me, the problem would be that some messianic prophecies are still to be fulfilled in the future,

as in Ezekiel 37:22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again.

so imo, Luke 24 doesn't mean that everything prophecied about Jesus was fulfilled in his first coming here.

But Jesus says,"I did not come to destroy but to fulfill", which I think is to say "I came to fulfill". So, imo, he must mean he came to fulfill prophecies about his first coming.

Looks like we are on the same page for the most part. At lest for 17. 18 however tells us Until all be fulfilled. Being as it is worded a bit different, I take that to mean as I pointed out in Luke. I hope that makes some kind of sense.
As for you slip I didn't even notice, so hay tells you how much that made a difference .

 

[Desertsrose]

Looks like we are on the same page for the most part. At lest for 17. 18 however tells us Until all be fulfilled. Being as it is worded a bit different, I take that to mean as I pointed out in Luke. I hope that makes some kind of sense.
As for you slip I didn't even notice, so hay tells you how much that made a difference .

Also the part where it says, "until heaven and earth pass away...."

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

 

[Rainrider]

Ha ha forgive me if I blow a little smoke
But that almost sounds like the start of a walks into a bar joke
Ha ha but that aside I do hope the Lord shall bless you and your buddies
Sounds like an interesting group of perspectives for your studies

Well to go back and speak a bit more seriously
Numbers I think is a little more exciting since it gets back more to the story
Though Leviticus is still kind of cool
I feel a little more appreciation for it this time through
Between the laws you have nice little episodes
Like Aaron and his sons being consecrated

From where I last was reading I'll post these verses to consider too
If you notice after the death Nadab and Abihu
Moses gets angry with Eleazar and Ithamar
But Aaron gives him a little rebuke
I think that episode is profitable in understanding the Law
It's not so much about sins and the altar having sacrifices on it
But rather it's about the heart and whether the Lord will accept it

Leviticus 10:16-20

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And Moses diligently sought the goat of the sin offering, and, behold, it was burnt: and he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the sons of Aaron which were left alive, saying,
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Wherefore have ye not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the Lord?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Behold, the blood of it was not brought in within the holy place: ye should indeed have eaten it in the holy place, as I commanded.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And Aaron said unto Moses, Behold, this day have they offered their sin offering and their burnt offering before the Lord; and such things have befallen me: and if I had eaten the sin offering to day, should it have been accepted in the sight of the Lord?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And when Moses heard that, he was content.

I almost forgot, your joke, didn't land on deaf ears, I hope you don't mind I would like to share that with my group. We do at times get a bit heated, the thing is, when we do, someone will always cut loss with some kind of joke, and bring us back to earth. We all try to watch our selves closely, so that doesn't happen, Yet even when we do get a bit heated, we still remain respectful. We have little names we call one anther, yet that is just out of fun. Just so you know, they all call me, "The man with no home." They do that as we all know I have rejected by Christians, for teaching that the Law still stands. Then I have been rejected by the Jews for teaching that the Law has hold over salvation. I have no clue how they can find both sides of one topic coming from one man. OH hold phone, I do teach both. LOL

I was real tired, so after my 3 hour nap, I am doing better. Once more sorry for being so clinical.

 

[Rainrider]

What helps even more is deuteronomy 18
and the reason why GOD said they have spoken well

I just looked at Deut, 18, I didn't what you are speaking of. Did I miss something? I most likely have, I will look at some other translation to see. Please if you don't mind, can you lend a hand on this though.
Thank you my friend.

 

[Rainrider]

You're right, I shouldn't have said that, I appologize.

Not a problem at all.
As for your post about seeing the gospel in the story you lead us to. Yes I have found that to be less than a coincident. . Though I going to ask for a bit of help here if you will?
Disobedience, lead to the rejection of the, ( lets use the word elders), So if they are rejected for disobedience, how are we any different?
If we are not, then with out His Law, what do we have to be obedient to?
Once more that story comes down to 2 things, FAITH, and Obedience does it not? And if you read my post, is that not what I have maintained? I have looked over them, and though it is there, it simply is not spelled out in so many words.

 

[Willie-T]

Also the part where it says, "until heaven and earth pass away...."

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

You might surprise yourself to go find out just what the Jews of that day considered, and actually 'called', Heaven & Earth.

 

[Rainrider]

Sometimes you do not have to say it in words, you can actually deny it, yet still preach it.

I have seen seen it far to often, I have done it myself

Yet I am to be condemed for saying that Salvation comes by Faith, always has always will? Got it, then I will just salvation comes from what, saying I believe?
It does not work that way.
I don't know how to it clear for folks that simply see the word LAW and then go blind to anything that follows.

 

[Rainrider]

if your going to preach works and obedience are required for salvation

the law is the only guide you have, because the law is the only guide that can condemn you

ot mentality? Grace was taught in the OT also, no one was ever saved by being obedient enough t earn the right to be gods child all men or women who will be saved have been and will be saved by grace through faith, even job spoke that he knew his redeemer would come. David understood the law was useless in saving him and no one in the OT could live up to the standard of the law, so the law would condemn them as much as it does us who have not come in faith,

So Paul was wrong I take it.
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[TD] Jas 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Jas 2:20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Or does this not mean what it says?



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[PerfectlyImperfect]

Yet I am to be condemed for saying that Salvation comes by Faith, always has always will? Got it, then I will just salvation comes from what, saying I believe?
It does not work that way.
I don't know how to it clear for folks that simply see the word LAW and then go blind to anything that follows.

Lol, I get what you're saying here because folks around me truly seem to think their getting into heaven based on just their faith alone, even though the habitually sin day after day. And of course I'm not the judge or anything, but I could've swore he said following his law had something to do with it as well as Faith!

 

[Rainrider]

Or or maybe read closer, a few are saying it, even if they deny it.

I answer for only me. It may well be that I am not seeing that as I am not looking for it. Though it does seem to me like I am not the only with this in their heart, Then I don't you or me are qualified to judge that. So it would be wise to not pass judgment on things we may not know? Thats my story and I am sticking to it. LOL

 

[Rainrider]

Also the part where it says, "until heaven and earth pass away...."

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Thank you for that. I am a bit brain dead, or do they called it rum dumb now. Anyway, I have had much sleep. I worn you now, I have had some say that is not talking of this earth, that the heaven earth will never pass, even had one person say the Bible says, "Heaven and earth forever, Amen." Never did get any passage on that one, have no clue why do you? LOL

 

[Rainrider]

You might surprise yourself to go find out just what the Jews of that day considered, and actually 'called', Heaven & Earth.

That would be somewhat relative how. It would also some what subjective, as one would first need to know the answer to 2 things. What Heaven are you speaking of, As we know Gen1:1 uses the word HEAVENS. Next would be what earth is being spoken of. The Jewish people for much longer than you may think understood that this earth has an exasperation date.
The really cool part of that, even Ulta Orthodox Jews, (some not all) teach of the Heave and earth being rolled up as if it were a scroll.

 

[dcontroversal]

The law condemns and deems all guilty before God....When Jesus said, "It is finished" his words testify to the price demanded as paid in full. The condemnation of the law is no longer hanging over the head of ALL who have acknowledge the work of Christ on their behalf. The righteousness of the LAW is now found IN Christ and IMPUTED unto ALL who believe....

I look at it like this...in order for humanity to be redeemable there had to be at least one...that ONE is JESUS and he is the beginner and finisher of our faith....the word beginner means forerunner or first.....He started it and he will finish it....

 

[Rainrider]

Lol, I get what you're saying here because folks around me truly seem to think their getting into heaven based on just their faith alone, even though the habitually sin day after day. And of course I'm not the judge or anything, but I could've swore he said following his law had something to do with it as well as Faith!

And you would be right.
Mat 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good?[fn] No one is good but One, that is, God.[fn] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

 

[PerfectlyImperfect]

That would be somewhat relative how. It would also some what subjective, as one would first need to know the answer to 2 things. What Heaven are you speaking of, As we know Gen1:1 uses the word HEAVENS. Next would be what earth is being spoken of. The Jewish people for much longer than you may think understood that this earth has an exasperation date.
The really cool part of that, even Ulta Orthodox Jews, (some not all) teach of the Heave and earth being rolled up as if it were a scroll.

I learn something new everyday!

 

[dcontroversal]

And you would be right.
Mat 19:17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good?[fn] No one is good but One, that is, God.[fn] But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

I just want to point out a fact that gets overlooked and swept under the rug....Jesus lived and died under the law, under the Old Covenant...His death RATIFIED the NEW Covenant.....we cannot forget this fact...his responses to the people around him were and are based upon this fact....HE also said he had many things to teach the disciples, but they were not yet ready....I personally believe he was limited because the NEW Covenant had not yet been ratified....the words he references are found in the Pauline Epistles.....just saying.