The truth behind the Law

[Rainrider]

I'm not surprised you could not make 'head or tail of Deut 18, it is a wrong refernce she used in reply to my Post regarding Deut 5 and Ex 20 when people refused to hear God. This takes a bit of explaining I will do for you if you want me to. In the meantime you might ponder Deut 5v26 which does refer to my post.

The reply I got helped me. It was that part of HaShem saying they said good that had me lost. I got it now though..
Thank you.

 

[Grace777x70]

2 things first. I never judge anyone, that is not my job. Next, the answer is just for me, and not everyone.
I follow the 7th day Sabbath, as I have found in my heart that it is something we should do. It was not, and is not a law that fits only with the Jewish people. My reason for that is this.
Gen 2:2 On the seventh day God had finished his work of creation, so he rested from all his work.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy, because it was the day when he rested from all his work of creation.

As it was blessed by Him, and declared Holy, long before Sinai, It stands for everyone. Also, it the only commandment that starts with the word remember.
Exo 20:8 “Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
The it is also,
Exo 31:13 “Tell the people of Israel: ‘Be careful to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you from generation to generation. It is given so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.

Please note, that this doesn't say the Sabbath makes one Holy, Only HaShem can do that. Sory if that sounded rude. It seems that I need to give that disclamure or I am seen as over looking that salvation comes ONLY BY FAITH.

Thank you. I am well aware of the reasons some people observe the Sabbath and I am well aware of the reality that Jesus is our true Sabbath rest and all of creation speaks of Chrsit and it is all a type or a shadow of Christ Himself.


So, in your view a Gentile Christian would not be sinning and dis-obeying God because they didn't observe the Sabbath day as in the law - from Friday to Saturday?

But it is your personal conviction to do so? Is this correct?

I believe that you have the liberty in Christ to observe the day and festivals as you like and to eat meats or to not eat meats.

This scripture works well for a lot of situations and personal convictions.

Romans 14:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;

[SUP]8 [/SUP] for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

 

[Rainrider]

Thank you. I am well aware of the reasons some people observe the Sabbath and I am well aware of the reality that Jesus is our true Sabbath rest and all of creation speaks of Chrsit and it is all a type or a shadow of Christ Himself.


So, in your view a Gentile Christian would not be sinning and dis-obeying God because they didn't observe the Sabbath day as in the law - from Friday to Saturday?

But it is your personal conviction to do so? Is this correct?

I believe that you have the liberty in Christ to observe the day and festivals as you like and to eat meats or to not eat meats.

This scripture works well for a lot of situations and personal convictions.

Romans 14:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;

[SUP]8 [/SUP] for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

yes it is my own conviction. Sadly that is seen as me telling everyone to keep the law for you salvation, Well by some anyway. Can I show from the word that what I do is Biblical, YES. Will my mind ever be changed? NO There simply is not one passage or grope of them that can show the Sabbath has been remove, with enough logic to stand up in my mind. Also, as much as some people dislike the RCC, it was by them it was changed, and they have even said so. I can post part of the atrticle for you if you like or get you the web sight.

as I said, I will not judge, that is not my job.

 

[graceNpeace]

The Law as I have said many times, is divided, there are laws that fit the Jewish people, and are not for the gentile. There are laws for the sacrifices as well. One being they are only to be done in the Temple, on the alter of HaShem. So when a person post things that
1 hold no sway over a gentile, yet they wish to push it off them,. Does show a lack of understanding, and/or knowledge.
2 When it comes to sacrifice, One should take a little time to rad up on them, Not just the Torah, rather slow down and one or two things out side of that. Like say,
Isa 1:11
“What makes you think I want all your sacrifices?” says the LORD. “I am sick of your burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fattened cattle. I get no pleasure from the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
Jer 6:20
There's no use offering me sweet frankincense from Sheba. Keep your fragrant calamus imported from distant lands!
I will not accept your burnt offerings. Your sacrifices have no pleasing aroma for me.”
Psa 40:6 You take no delight in sacrifices or offerings. Now that you have made me listen, I finally understand—you don’t require burnt offerings or sin offerings.
Hos 6:6
I want you to show love, not offer sacrifices. I want you to know me more than I want burnt offerings.

So I repeat, learn fist, then speak. I am not trying to be condescending, only helpful. It has always been a given, that one a person has seen a thing enough times, they grow wiry of it, and may strike out in a bad manner. If you have kids I am sure you understand that.
True it is no excuse, yet it is on me. I can own that I may act with out thinking at times. What I would like to see just once, is others to do the same.

The context of those quoted Scriptures has nothing to do with your point!

Either the Law is binding for righteousness before God or it is not!
It is, absolutely and unequivocally a binary choice!
On or off.
Black or white
There is NO grey scale here!

Jesus Christ released us from the righteous demands of the Law.
US refers to those who believe that Jesus died for our sins and believe on Him for our righteousness.

If one does not believe and accept the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ then then they will be judged (un)righteous by the demands of the Law, as they are aware of it. None will be found righteous in this process.

12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law Rom 2:12

However those that believe and accept the imputed righteousness of Christ will be justified, despite of their sin and sinfulness

[FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]22 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]23 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]24 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]25 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Rom 3:21-26

As a Christian which laws were applicable to Jews and which were applicable to Gentile prior to the establishing of the New Covenant by the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ is irrelevant!

God does not distinguish your ethnic or religious roots anymore, once one is under the New Covenant.

[FONT=&quot]27[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]28 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]29 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]30 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]31 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot] Rom 3:27-31

The law is not made void nor abrogated in this process but it cannot justify - only condemn!

7 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[[/FONT][FONT=&quot]a] 8 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]10 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]11 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]12 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rom 7:7-12

However we (as Christians) are delivered from the law.

[SUP]1 [/SUP]Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. Rom 7:1-6

If one is a Christian then it matter little what laws applied to who and when or why.
The New Covenant places one's claim to righteousness (as a Christian) squarely on the shed blood of Jesus Christ!
No addendums and no subtractions!
Any law, any system of law, if appealed to for the sake of righteousness before God, can do nothing other than condemn one utterly and irrevocably!

Do I need to go on and quote verbatim from Galatians?





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[Grace777x70]

yes it is my own conviction. Sadly that is seen as me telling everyone to keep the law for you salvation, Well by some anyway. Can I show from the word that what I do is Biblical, YES. Will my mind ever be changed? NO There simply is not one passage or grope of them that can show the Sabbath has been remove, with enough logic to stand up in my mind. Also, as much as some people dislike the RCC, it was by them it was changed, and they have even said so. I can post part of the atrticle for you if you like or get you the web sight.

as I said, I will not judge, that is not my job.

That is great and you are entitled to follow what you believe to be true for you to do and in the way that you choose.

Thank you for your direct answer. I have asked this question to many Sabbath observers and they have all said that it is sinning and dis-obeying God and some in round about ways that would make a "Philadelphia lawyer proud".

When Friday comes around I will be the first to say Happy Sabbath to you and let me know how you see Christ in your observance of the Sabbath day with your family and friends that do the same thing with you.

Bless you my precious brother....

 

[miknik5]

We're not talking about "Christianity" (as following a form of religion) as Beta said


We're talking about CHRIST

everybody can practice religion

but as Romans 19 says, it's with the heart one believes before the eyes of GOD

So playacting at following rules and religion but not truly believing upon the heart is not overlooked or hidden from GOD

Romans 10. I realized just now I must have pressed 19 instead of Romans 10

Romans 10 says it all

 

[miknik5]

Can the 2 be separated? I am asking as it does at times seem they can't. You also being a person that has made it clear you are doing your best to look at both sides, I didn't feel that would offend you. If it did I am sorry.

No it doesn't offend me But I don't know what you are asking. Can it be both sides? Do you mean following CHRIST and the law?

 

[gotime]

I am curious about something concerning the law here. I hope it is ok on this thread, Just let me know if it is not and I will pursue it here no further.

God gave his law to Israel that showed them what sin was. If the view I understand people to be giving is true then why did God code it in a way that would guarantee they did not understand it? What does that make God?

For example the Sabbath commandment, It very clearly lends itself to a literal day that comes from creation. So was God tricking Israel and then punishing them for not keeping it? how does that work?

 

[gotime]

actually just scrap that last post of mine. you are talking about the law but different points Ill leave it cheers.

 

[beta]

The law condemns and deems all guilty before God....When Jesus said, "It is finished" his words testify to the price demanded as paid in full. The condemnation of the law is no longer hanging over the head of ALL who have acknowledge the work of Christ on their behalf. The righteousness of the LAW is now found IN Christ and IMPUTED unto ALL who believe....

I look at it like this...in order for humanity to be redeemable there had to be at least one...that ONE is JESUS and he is the beginner and finisher of our faith....the word beginner means forerunner or first.....He started it and he will finish it....

You have said it friend...He will finish it...future...as yet He is still working !
so when some take it as 'finished with nothing more to do' they 'cut themselves OFF from any further personal participation in His work...to which the New man is called.
We are called to carry on from where HE IS...not start a new chapter with a new christ on another day. Where is the 'connection ? Jesus (the real one who died for us) is the same today as He was yesterday and will be tomorrow !

 

[Rainrider]

That is great and you are entitled to follow what you believe to be true for you to do and in the way that you choose.

Thank you for your direct answer. I have asked this question to many Sabbath observers and they have all said that it is sinning and dis-obeying God and some in round about ways that would make a "Philadelphia lawyer proud".

When Friday comes around I will be the first to say Happy Sabbath to you and let me know how you see Christ in your observance of the Sabbath day with your family and friends that do the same thing with you.

Bless you my precious brother....

So are you telling me that all this name calling that I ave seen on here, is just as I thought? Some people are just seeing the word law, and going off the deep end? I don't mean to make that seem as a small thing, as it is not. After all I have made it cler or at lest though I had from the onset that I am looking to learn. Sure I have of seeing it, you have yours. I have lived my life in away that prevents me from trying to push my life, and belief off on others.
So may I ask, are you willing to follow this through, in an attempt to learn more, or is this an endeavor that is best left not followed?
I can say that I have leard a lot about some folks, some good some bad. As it seems you have found in others as well. I have family that I am sure you say become indigent, and even hostile, f you dare to say you don't follow what they do. So yes I have learned to keep an eye out for what I have came to call, Pharisee questions. How ever yours are start to the point, with no underling motive. That I like.
Thank you much, and you will be in my prayers, and when a person of your standing comes along, it is hard to forget them.

 

[Rainrider]

I am curious about something concerning the law here. I hope it is ok on this thread, Just let me know if it is not and I will pursue it here no further.

God gave his law to Israel that showed them what sin was. If the view I understand people to be giving is true then why did God code it in a way that would guarantee they did not understand it? What does that make God?

For example the Sabbath commandment, It very clearly lends itself to a literal day that comes from creation. So was God tricking Israel and then punishing them for not keeping it? how does that work?

That seems to be a vary valid question. One that I am more than willing to follow through with. However I do ask that you keep in mind, I am not going to try and change you, that is not my job. My job as I see it is to answer questions that have valid reasoning, the rest is between you and HaShem.
I would like to know what you mean by the Law being coded, as that is not something I have ever heard or even seen. In my mind the Law is cut and dry, start foreword, and set in away that it levees little or no room for misunderstanding. As for the Sabbath, as you can tell from this thread, is not something most are willing to give ground on. Yet I do see it as being a day that was set aside at creation. I haven't seen any place in the Word to change my thinking on that. However I also understand that it is something we will all have to answer for, and yes, if I am wrong, I will answer for that. If however I am right, then anyone that is opposed to my understanding will have to answer for their self.
I will hold off any more commentary until I hear back from you.

 

[Rainrider]

actually just scrap that last post of mine. you are talking about the law but different points Ill leave it cheers.

To late my friend. You got my brain working, so lets do this. The way I see it is that I opened this tread to talk about the Law. I have no illusions that it will will only be one aspect, besides, you bring up something that has my interest. So please, lets see this through.

 

[beta]

GOD knew they didn't want to hear HIM
They were afraid and said to Moses. Let us not hear HIS VOICE again lest we perish

and GOD said in Deuteronomy 18:9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, one that useth divination, a soothsayer, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, 11or a charmer, or one that consulteth a ghost or a familiar spirit, or a necromancer. 12For whosoever doeth these things is an abomination unto the LORD; and because of these abominations the LORD thy God is driving them out from before thee. 13Thou shalt be whole-hearted with the LORD thy God. 14For these nations, that thou art to dispossess, hearken unto soothsayers, and unto diviners; but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.


15A prophet will the LORD thy God raise up unto thee, from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;16according to all that thou didst desire of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying: ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.’ 17And the LORD said unto me: ‘They have well said that which they have spoken. 18I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.

So why are people not hearing JESUS who only speaks what His Father tells Him ? Did Father tell Him to nail HIS spiritual/eternal commandments to the cross ? We see that scripture says otherwise Mat 5v17,18. We are to 'return to the same God from whom we have strayed...not follow an imposter from Rome. Wake up you who sleep...for now is your salvation nearer...even knocking at the door to be let in ...and not have to break up your house !

 

[beta]

To anyone who claims to keep the Law:

If you are a male - have you been ritually circumcised according to the Law,

Do you hold to every dietary restriction in the Law,

Please explain your system of ritual sacrifice given that the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in AD 70.

Points to consider:
If you say you keep the Law then you are obliged to follow it to the letter (Matt 5:18).
I do not want to hear you say that this and that is set aside BUT this and that is still binding.
The Law is a PACKAGE DEAL - it is an all or nothing deal!

You either take your stand for righteousness on the Law, or, (if one is a Christian), then you take your stand on the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ as demonstrated by His sacrifice on the cross (Eph 2:8-9).

GOD HIMSELF puts 'difference between holy and unholy...so what GOD calls holy do not thou call unholy...as people are doing with HIS Commandments by handing them over to Moses and be abolished. I would call that an 'UNholy act on man's part !

 

[gotime]

That seems to be a vary valid question. One that I am more than willing to follow through with. However I do ask that you keep in mind, I am not going to try and change you, that is not my job. My job as I see it is to answer questions that have valid reasoning, the rest is between you and HaShem.
I would like to know what you mean by the Law being coded, as that is not something I have ever heard or even seen. In my mind the Law is cut and dry, start foreword, and set in away that it levees little or no room for misunderstanding. As for the Sabbath, as you can tell from this thread, is not something most are willing to give ground on. Yet I do see it as being a day that was set aside at creation. I haven't seen any place in the Word to change my thinking on that. However I also understand that it is something we will all have to answer for, and yes, if I am wrong, I will answer for that. If however I am right, then anyone that is opposed to my understanding will have to answer for their self.
I will hold off any more commentary until I hear back from you.

Ok Brother I will explain my point.

It was concerning the Sabbath question.

The law was to show sin, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It does so by showing what is good.

Now When I read the fourth commandment I do just that, read it as it is and it is very simple. God Said remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. He stipulates that it is the 7th day of the week. Resting on it seems to simply cease to work on that day from our labours. It also gives reason for it being Holy as it states that God blessed it and made it holy.

When I said coded. I was referring to what some teach here that it does not mean what it says. That it had spiritual meaning but no literal application.

However when I read it as it says, its quote literal. I know there are spiritual lessons in it also, as there is in everything God does. But I can't not read what it says.

So my question was to those who say it does not mean a literal day to be remembered in memory and acknowledgement of Gods blessing etc on the 7th day of creation.

But for this to be true it would mean that what God said to the Jews he did not speak plainly but in code so to speak. Which if the law was to show sin God sure went about it in a hidden way. Which is kind of contrary or in-congruent with the whole purpose of making sin known by the law.

Keeping in mind that the law was not only meant for Jews thus the fact that Paul says it made the whole world guilty :

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

I hope that is simple and clear enough what I was saying. or trying to say lol.

 

[Rainrider]

Ok Brother I will explain my point.

It was concerning the Sabbath question.

The law was to show sin, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. It does so by showing what is good.

Now When I read the fourth commandment I do just that, read it as it is and it is very simple. God Said remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. He stipulates that it is the 7th day of the week. Resting on it seems to simply cease to work on that day from our labours. It also gives reason for it being Holy as it states that God blessed it and made it holy.

When I said coded. I was referring to what some teach here that it does not mean what it says. That it had spiritual meaning but no literal application.

I will be one to say that the Law is of the spirit. As it is meant to show how to live a life that is shall we say, spiritual clean. It has some to do with the acts yes, yet in the end, it is more about our relationship with HaShem. As that is not a physical thing, the law really can't help in this if it is only physical.
The Sabbath , was, is, and will remain, a part of the law. If one wishes to follow it may HaShem bless them, and keep them grounded.
Your reasoning is clear, and based on solid logic. The Sabbath was given to man, from the days of creation. What we must understand is that the Sabbath was made for Man, not man for the Sabbath.

However when I read it as it says, its quote literal. I know there are spiritual lessons in it also, as there is in everything God does. But I can't not read what it says.

So my question was to those who say it does not mean a literal day to be remembered in memory and acknowledgement of Gods blessing etc on the 7th day of creation.

I think you will find that folks that don't keep Shabbot, (Sabbath) will do their best to push o you what they think you need to follow. Rather than just answering question, and letting You work out your salvation between HaShem and your self. As you can tell if you have rad this thread, many seem to act out of what seems to be hatred, or fair. I can only it seems that way, as I can't see their hearts. Though like you, I have wanted to have a nice respectful diolog with someone that follows the Sabbath is not a day. I find it odd, that something that has been changed by man and not HaShem can become so loved, and what HaShem told us, so hatted.

But for this to be true it would mean that what God said to the Jews he did not speak plainly but in code so to speak. Which if the law was to show sin God sure went about it in a hidden way. Which is kind of contrary or in-congruent with the whole purpose of making sin known by the law.

Keeping in mind that the law was not only meant for Jews thus the fact that Paul says it made the whole world guilty :

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

I hope that is simple and clear enough what I was saying. or trying to say lol.

When the Law was given, one finds that it reads as though it was meant to be clear. With all the divisions, and in some cases, sub-divisions,. HaShem went to great length to make it clear as a bell. You will find many in this world only wish to push their ideas and beliefs on others. All the time saying they are not. Yet when push comes to shove, they turn the same old tactics that were aimed at Yeshua. Ask something that is meant for only one thing, to discredit the one you are asking. They place i a way that if you answer one why they jump up and say got you. If you answer it another, same thing.
I am not going to say that everyone does this. Their really are some good people on here, that are simply looking to make clear what you are asking or saying. As you wil find in my post answering this same thing in the tread on the Sabbath, I am not here to change anyone. Your salvation is between you and HaShem. I can do nothing about what you think or do, I can only try to understand it.
Sorry seen that rabbit had to chase it. Back on track now.
What you rd in Paul is right, the law is to point us to salvation. It is the mark we are to shoot for. No one can live it out in their life to the letter, that is what Salvation through Yeshua is for. All the Law can do is point out our wrongs, and show us where we to work to improve. Will I call the Spiritual? YES with out any second thought. If it was not, then it would have way to help us in our spiritual walk with HaShem. Is it also literal? Yes, in that one should do their best to live it out in their lives. Keep in mind, that not all aspects of the law are for every peoples of the earth. Their are parts that are for Israel and only Israel. Though some, (if you take a path of doing you best to uphold the Law) will try to place parts of the law on you that are not yours to bare. If at any time you are not sure, you are always free to ask me anything. You will not be pushed to do anything, you will not find condemnation, nor anything but a kind and loving answer. One that will stand teh test fo both time and Scripture. Well ok, assaults by any that simply know enough about the Law to be a danger to them self and others.
I do hope this helps.

 

[beta]

The reply I got helped me. It was that part of HaShem saying they said good that had me lost. I got it now though..
Thank you.

Yes, what the people said/refused was 'good in the sense that it spared them from receiving the 'complete law of 613+ as spiritual and eternal' from God personally... which nobody but nobody could ever keep. Therefore the other coms of works/ ordinances were only temp and could be abolished...however many good principles from them were incorporated in the 10 and apply still today.
It needs to be said that the people did not perceive the spiritual intent but only refused because they were afraid...it says in scripture. The spiritual reason for this division in the Commandments can only be understood today with the help of Gods HS...people then (bless them) were just frightened and ignorant of what God was doing or wanted done.

 

[Rainrider]

Yes, what the people said/refused was 'good in the sense that it spared them from receiving the 'complete law of 613+ as spiritual and eternal' from God personally... which nobody but nobody could ever keep. Therefore the other coms of works/ ordinances were only temp and could be abolished...however many good principles from them were incorporated in the 10 and apply still today.
It needs to be said that the people did not perceive the spiritual intent but only refused because they were afraid...it says in scripture. The spiritual reason for this division in the Commandments can only be understood today with the help of Gods HS...people then (bless them) were just frightened and ignorant of what God was doing or wanted done.

You do know that when people wish away the Law, they hold on it anyway? Let me explain.
1 When asked if Tithe is to done, the answer is almost always yes.
2 When asked if perverted sex acts are wrong, again the answer is YES
If asked if it is ok to lie, the answer is NO
This list can get rather long, and I am sure they will find some way around this, if pined down on it. Though most will change it back on you in some way, with Laws that have no hold on you. Funny how they will fight so long and hard to show you wrong, when they follow the same Laws.

 

[beta]

Why do we still squabble today after thousands of years regarding the law ?
Because people do not understand or accept that GOD divided the Commandments, separating spiritual observance from carnal works.
Personally I think it would help our understanding if we referred to them separately as the
Commandments of God and
the law of Moses.
and not speak of LAW as if it was all one and the same. Lets 'put difference between what is holy/spiritual and what is carnal/physical' Lev 10v10. Lets do what scripture says !