Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

The master speaks huh? LOL

Nope...just calling a duck a duck.......to compare what he said to the Jews being deceived into the gas chambers was moronic at best....for once be honest and agree instead of arguing for the sake of saving face....

 

[Meggido]

Your wrong

Why? God declared abraham righteous all the way back in Gen 15

Gen 15:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

Issac was born in Gen 21

Gen 21:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For Sarah conceived and bore Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And Abraham called the name of his son who was born to him—whom Sarah bore to him—Isaac.

In between this time, Abraham has Ishmael, Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed. (many years)

And then he did not attempt to sacrifice his son until many more years later in Gen 22

So God declared him righteous before any of those things even occurred. You would have him in an unsaved state, not righteous at all. Until he offered up his son, That is just wrong.

Abraham was saved in Gen 3: 15 because he trusted in Gods promise. GOD was confirmed right to do so. by the many works Abraham did, including the offering up of his sin.

James is speaking to people who have not been declared righteous by anyone, Let alone God

They have a self proclaimed faith, in other words, they go around telling people they had faith, they may have said some sinners prayer.

We are told by James they are hearers of the word, Not doers. They act like the word does with all of their sins, in the name of the church, and they have no works,

They are NOT the people who have either said they had faith, or not, Yet walk around doing the will of God. Look like the believers, Have all kinds of works. And like Abraham, Had a living faith, which ALWAYS produces works.

James told them one thing, examine yourself. Can your claimed faith save you? No, I will prove my faith by my works, You prove your LACK of faith by you LACK of work. Your faith is dead.. Can your lifeless faiht save you?

No. Not today, yesterday next year 1000 years from now. A lifeless faith has never, will never and is not saving anyone.

When abraham offered up his sin, He proved how his faith grew, From a man who laughed at God, Who commited adultry to try to do Gods will his own way, to a God who could raise his son from the dead.

We all should see our faith grow this way, BUT WORKS WILL NEVER SAVE US..

Explain Gen 22.12<<<<NOW I KNOW....

 

[Meggido]

its a nonsensical question

If abraham died before he had the chance to offer up his son, Would he have went to heaven or hell?

Neither, he went to paradise.

 

[Meggido]

Not to mention the fact that the faith Abraham had that justified was his belief in what God had said when God called him out of UR.....long before he was "whacked" or offered Isaac......it was faith that justified and saved Abraham....not his works and I do not understand why people cannot see that to add works of righteousness to FAITH in order to KEEP, FINISH and or embellish salvation is false...Paul was clear and he calls all who espouse this fools and bewitched......

explain Gen 22.12<<<<NOW I KNOW...signed God...

 

[Zmouth]

Nope a saving faith is more than that.

If you were saved before you had faith then you might not be saved since the scriptures say you are saved by hope, and hope that seen is not hope.



24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Rom 8:24-25

 

[UnderGrace]

Originally Posted by Burninglight

Ep 2: 8,9 is clear that we are saved by God's grace through faith and not by works. Those that think they need to add works to be saved insult the Spirit of Grace and are severed from Christ. It is really sad those that call themselves Christians cannot see this, because they are not of Christ's fold and cannot hear His voice.

I absolutely agree we must come to God empty handed. He has set down His terms.

There is only one faith/one belief that saves and brings atonement, we come to Him on His terms. It is actually easy to believe wrong that is why the road is narrow and few find it. The gospel message must be presented clearly.

Many, many people are nominal Christians and they do not even know it, they have never really be told the Gospel and sadly sometimes these can be the hardest people to reach, they have already bought into a false system of belief.

I am not sure what you mean by "severed"

I do believe that many people still figure it out even when they have been blinded by a false system and come to understand and accept that good deeds are not involved in salvation, they can be still be saved because they have come to Him on His terms then His Grace will never falter.

This kind of crosses a line for me.

If they have the Holy spirit and true saving faith in Jesus then they are saved, even if I don't agree with their doctrine.

.God is able teach and save all His Kids.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Neither, he went to paradise.

I was asking about his final destination.

Thanks.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am waiting for you to tell us how we get around Gen 22.12<<<<<<<<<<NOW I KNOW.....signed the Lord...

How is it that God himself did not know, until Abraham offered Isaac?

Must not be much of a God if he already did not know....Abraham was declared justified and saved by his faith....Paul was clear....and we men can see his faith was genuine based upon his actions which is what James speaks to....having said that...answer the following please

a. How many apples identify an apple tree?
b. Is an apple tree an apple tree from the moment it sprouts?
c. Is an apple tree still an apple tree for the 3 or so years it makes to bear fruit?
d. Is an apple tree still an apple tree is it has a good year and bears fruit and then has a bad year of drought and does not bear?
e. Is an apple tree still an apple tree if a bad late frost kills all the blooms and it does not bear that year?
f. is an apple tree still an apple tree if all of it's fruit is loaded with worms one year?
G. As a matter of fact....is an apple tree still an apple tree no matter what happens after it sprouts from seed it's whole life?

???

 

[BillG]

10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.
Deut 18:10-13

Was saying that was a poor example.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Thats where I took my example from.

 

[Meggido]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't you consider that the term believe and faith to mean the same thing? So if a person believes something then they have faith since the two terms are interchangeable right? So you always had faith, you were just saved when you had faith in God right?

Abraham believed God, but God is not moved by belief, God is moved by faith, hence Gen 22.12<<<<NOW I KNOW

But many here believe saving faith is a gift of God and it is God personal faith or Jesus's personal faith that saves you and not your own personal faith.

This is why they can say I believe, but not worry about having the personal faith to give up anything, unlike Abraham's personal faith was ready to give his only son.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Explain Gen 22.12<<<<NOW I KNOW....

Explain what? Did God really question abrahams faith? Was it for Gods benefit, or abrahams?

Again, If it took all those years for abraham to actually be saved, and he was lost up until that time or in limbo.. What does that say?

 

[UnderGrace]

Thanks for clarifying, I really did not get the post.

I do love a good conspiracy theory though.

Sock puppets implies that folks waste the time and energy to make multiple accounts to put on a play to "fool" Stephen..,seems a little much.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am waiting for you to tell us how we get around Gen 22.12<<<<<<<<<<NOW I KNOW.....signed the Lord...

How is it that God himself did not know, until Abraham offered Isaac?

If you think God really did not know. I have serious questions about who you think God is.

 

[Meggido]

This was an ignorant statement..........

The SS forced guards at Gas sites to tell the Jews they needed a shower, so they got off the box cars and went to take a shower...they were gassed instead.

 

[dcontroversal]

explain Gen 22.12<<<<NOW I KNOW...signed God...

The quote has zero to do with his salvation and or justification before GOD....and is applicable to Abraham fearing God and obeying his command to offer Isaac.....NICE TRY...NO CIGAR

And he said, Lay not your hand on the lad, neither do you any thing to him: for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son from me.

 

[Meggido]

I was asking about his final destination.

Thanks.

Is heaven the final destination?....not according to Revelation....

Your welcome

 

[dcontroversal]

Explain what? Did God really question abrahams faith? Was it for Gods benefit, or abrahams?

Again, If it took all those years for abraham to actually be saved, and he was lost up until that time or in limbo.. What does that say?

Not to mention it had zero to do with his salvation or justification before God based upon faith, but rather it had to do with fear and obeying God......

And he said, Lay not your hand on the lad, neither do you any thing to him: for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son from me.

 

[FranC]

Fran we define works differently and until you bother to acknowledge the difference between fruit, obedience and good works, then it's pointless for us to try and have a conversation.

Personally, I am here to talk to people, who actually listen and respond back in a Christlike manner, even if we disagree....not perform for an unseen audience.

Didn't catch this before...

What is not Christian-like about my manner???

 

[dcontroversal]

The SS forced guards at Gas sites to tell the Jews they needed a shower, so they got off the box cars and went to take a shower...they were gassed instead.

Regardless of any situation they found themselves in...to compare what was said with Jews being deceived and gassed was ignorant....

 

[Ariel82]

Explain Gen 22.12<<<<NOW I KNOW....

God is omniscient.


Why did Jesus speak His prayers out loud?

John 11

41 So they took away the stone. Then Jesus looked up and said, “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 I knew that you always hear me, but I said this for the benefit of the people standing here, that they may believe that you sent me.”