Not By Works
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Not to mention the fact that the faith Abraham had that justified was his belief in what God had said when God called him out of UR.....long before he was "whacked" or offered Isaac......it was faith that justified and saved Abraham....not his works and I do not understand why people cannot see that to add works of righteousness to FAITH in order to KEEP, FINISH and or embellish salvation is false...Paul was clear and he calls all who espouse this fools and bewitched......
A
That is what you believe James would say. However the Bible clearly says that Abraham was saved before He offered up Issac.
Just as Jesus saved Peter with His prayers.
Luke 22
31“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you,d that he might sift you like wheat, 32but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.” 33Petere said to him, “Lord, I am ready to go with you both to prison and to death.” 34Jesusf said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster will not crow this day, until you deny three times that you know me.”
*****
Even so the Holy spirit is our intercessor that is able to keep our faith in God strong even when we fall or turn away from the light, that faith is what turns us back to God.
Just as Jesus saved Peter with His prayers.
Luke 22
31“Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you,d that he might sift you like wheat, 32but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.” 33Petere said to him, “Lord, I am ready to go with you both to prison and to death.” 34Jesusf said, “I tell you, Peter, the rooster will not crow this day, until you deny three times that you know me.”
*****
Even so the Holy spirit is our intercessor that is able to keep our faith in God strong even when we fall or turn away from the light, that faith is what turns us back to God.
B
Ep 2: 8,9 is clear that we are saved by God's grace through faith and not by works. Those that think they need to add works to be saved insult the Spirit of Grace and are severed from Christ. It is really sad those that call themselves Christians cannot see this, because they are not of Christ's fold and cannot hear His voice.
I agree with you on saved by grace through faith in Christ's work when we hear the message of Him.
I believe that there are Christians because of bad teaching can be deceived into thinking they must do good works to be saved or to remain saved - but they are still Christians or they could be as only God knows the heart of man.
Acts 15:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
I believe that there are Christians because of bad teaching can be deceived into thinking they must do good works to be saved or to remain saved - but they are still Christians or they could be as only God knows the heart of man.
Acts 15:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
Well, let's see..... we have a couple of hard core, verbally beat-you-in-the ground-types.....
We have some "let's be logical & common sense" types.....
We have a couple of "let's all love one another" types.....
We have both male & female "gentle as a kitten" types.....
We hav a few "I'm acting like I'm on the other side" losers who make them look good.....
Ooh, yeah..... we even have a couple of "referee" types, acting as if they're neutral when they're not.
All of these round out a complete group of various personality types & attitudes to draw all kinds of folk to the same side of easy believeism.
If you take a look at it, it looks like a scripted act with all the right players.
Then again, it could be a handful of sockpuppets following a script.
It's too complete, too perfect, too good to be true.
Not to mention it's a very rare occasion one of them gets banned.
All I ask the readers to do is pray, & think for themselves.
I truly believe we're being played for a fool.
We have some "let's be logical & common sense" types.....
We have a couple of "let's all love one another" types.....
We have both male & female "gentle as a kitten" types.....
We hav a few "I'm acting like I'm on the other side" losers who make them look good.....
Ooh, yeah..... we even have a couple of "referee" types, acting as if they're neutral when they're not.
All of these round out a complete group of various personality types & attitudes to draw all kinds of folk to the same side of easy believeism.
If you take a look at it, it looks like a scripted act with all the right players.
Then again, it could be a handful of sockpuppets following a script.
It's too complete, too perfect, too good to be true.
Not to mention it's a very rare occasion one of them gets banned.
All I ask the readers to do is pray, & think for themselves.
I truly believe we're being played for a fool.
Can I ask who the we're are?
Given the majority of responses and content I would say most do pray and think for themselves and studied as well.
No, it's not a doctrine Fran. Its a truth. When we are born from above, we are granted His right standing with Father so we can boldly come before Him in prayer. It's why Jesus said there was a day coming when we would pray to the Father.
That day has come. But, to try to approach the unapproachable light in human flesh? Burnt to a crisp.
That day has come. But, to try to approach the unapproachable light in human flesh? Burnt to a crisp.
You miss the point, a person doesn't have faith nor can his works obtain faith, so if you don't know what the gift of God is then you are the one claiming to be saved by your works.
So were you saved before you had faith or after you had faith?
As far as hearing his voice, I take it you are referring to that inner voice that speaks to you? You don't mean an audible voice like the one referenced in Luke 9:35, Matthew 17:5 or Mark 9:7 do you?
Note: I am not questioning your salvation. Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
So were you saved before you had faith or after you had faith?
As far as hearing his voice, I take it you are referring to that inner voice that speaks to you? You don't mean an audible voice like the one referenced in Luke 9:35, Matthew 17:5 or Mark 9:7 do you?
Note: I am not questioning your salvation. Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
B
This is the first time for me on a Christian forum and I am shocked the things I hear being said and believed. I've been on Muslims forums and hear similar stuff from Muslims, but I understand them thinking that way, but what's a Christian's excuse? That is why Christians convert to Islam and the Muslims boast.
No...the KJV of James I believe is actually talking about fruit. Not the works of the Spirit. Its the fruit of being in Jesus that we will be merciful to others. When we see someone in need and we have that need in surplus...we give, or we even give out of our own need.
This is not to be confused with the works of Holy Spirit.
James is saying God has been merciful to us...be merciful to others. Show love. It's not a must...but a will do. Because of who we are in Him.
Actually the works of Holy Spirit are of the same manner....we give out of the giftings because we love others and want to see them saved, delivered, and growing in Kingdom living.
Just as He has done to us...we do to others.
We can develop attitudes and become unforgiving. I see unforgiveness as the only stumbling block in our life that will stop up the flow of Holy Spirit, and will cause our flesh then to rule. It's a sad place to be and then will cause destruction in our lives, and the lives of others.
James is centering on what a man will do when he loves others.
This is not to be confused with the works of Holy Spirit.
James is saying God has been merciful to us...be merciful to others. Show love. It's not a must...but a will do. Because of who we are in Him.
Actually the works of Holy Spirit are of the same manner....we give out of the giftings because we love others and want to see them saved, delivered, and growing in Kingdom living.
Just as He has done to us...we do to others.
We can develop attitudes and become unforgiving. I see unforgiveness as the only stumbling block in our life that will stop up the flow of Holy Spirit, and will cause our flesh then to rule. It's a sad place to be and then will cause destruction in our lives, and the lives of others.
James is centering on what a man will do when he loves others.
B
What line does it cross for you?
But if you think the Scripture crosses the line for you, how do you know it is the Holy Spirit or true faith in the true Jesus you are putting your faith in? It matters where our faith is placed. Wouldn't you agree? there is lots of deception out there. Jesus said beware of false prophets who bring false teachings . If we don't beware, we are sure to be deceived!
But if you think the Scripture crosses the line for you, how do you know it is the Holy Spirit or true faith in the true Jesus you are putting your faith in? It matters where our faith is placed. Wouldn't you agree? there is lots of deception out there. Jesus said beware of false prophets who bring false teachings . If we don't beware, we are sure to be deceived!
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