Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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But you can disagree with someone without the name calling, etc.
I am okay with folks not agreeing with me as long as we both communicate what it is we do believe and at the end of the day pray and allow God to work in both our lives.
What I don't like is when people start to tell me what I believe, not listen when I tell them that that is not what I believe and falsely accuse me of evil motives
Typically I try and converse until it becomes apparent that logic has been tossed in favor of emotions and "winning".
I am okay with folks not agreeing with me as long as we both communicate what it is we do believe and at the end of the day pray and allow God to work in both our lives.
What I don't like is when people start to tell me what I believe, not listen when I tell them that that is not what I believe and falsely accuse me of evil motives
Typically I try and converse until it becomes apparent that logic has been tossed in favor of emotions and "winning".
A
Does what I'm "thinking" count while I'm defusing?
(you can do 10 pushups and 15 Hail Mary's as penance for every disobiedent thought if you would like some legalistic man made routines that serve no purpose but to amuse the royal "us".
....joking about the penance thing...hoping everyone knows that by now)
Seriously though just pray and lay it at the foot of the cross. Ask God to forgive you and show you what you need to do. Then move forward and walk with Him,
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Nice pink colour (spelt Canadian style).... I try to count while I am diffusing hopefully blocking the name calling!
It's the same thing I do when people talk about intimate relationships, dating, cars, type of guns, bunions and other topics I prefer not to dwell upon.
Sometimes I retell the Bible to myself starting from Genesis,
J
Seriously though just pray and lay it at the foot of the cross. Ask God to forgive you and show you what you need to do. Then move forward and walk with Him,[/QUOTE (Missed this part... it was hiding). You have no idea how many posts I delete as God is saying,,,"Seriously, Kris?! You wanna really say that"? ~ I've learned not to argue with Him on that.
P
I think you mean 'fruit'. You don't call spiritual fruit works. Right?
Walking in a spiritual gift would be what you are referring to as works.
That's too narrow of a definition of works.
Works of the law are not 'the ministry'. Yet they are referred to as works.
Any requirement for righteous obedience is a work.
Just because God motivates righteous work in us doesn't mean we didn't do it.
Good, then you believe that works must accompany the faith that saves, just as James says. And these 'works' are referring to work that isn't being done to earn salvation as if salvation is earned through doing righteous works. See how easy that was? And it didn't hurt a bit.
[/quote]
We know that God is all-knowing. There's no argument there. In fact, we know God knew the church before we even existed. But why did God wait until Abraham's obedience to slay Isaac before he said this:
Genesis 22:12 NASB
12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”
Did he say it for his benefit, or ours? Ours, of course, for it seems God is interested in making judgments based on actual evidences (where possible). James' lesson on faith, and the showing of that faith for the purpose of justification, seems to hinge on this very verse. The evidence of one's fear and faith in God--the kind that saves--is in their doing. That's what God is wanting us to know, so that we won't get to the day of judgment with nothing more than the knowledge of Jesus which never got put to work to produce works.
Saving faith HAS to have works attached, or it isn't saving faith. Now you can hunt down a legalistic time frame and circumstances in which these works are to occur if you want, but that is missing the point. The point is, the faith that saves is the faith that changes a person who does righteous work. That's why a man is not justified by faith alone. He must also be justified by works. Because the faith that justifies (makes righteous) all by itself is the faith that then justifies (shows) a person as having the righteousness of faith through the works of righteousness that he does. Saving faith leaves the footprints of that faith behind it....the footprints of obedience, just like Abraham and the other Hebrews 11 'Hall of Faither's' did. If it's not leaving footprints, it's a 'faith' that can not save you.
Walking in a spiritual gift would be what you are referring to as works.
That's too narrow of a definition of works.
Works of the law are not 'the ministry'. Yet they are referred to as works.
Any requirement for righteous obedience is a work.
Just because God motivates righteous work in us doesn't mean we didn't do it.
Good, then you believe that works must accompany the faith that saves, just as James says. And these 'works' are referring to work that isn't being done to earn salvation as if salvation is earned through doing righteous works. See how easy that was? And it didn't hurt a bit.
[/quote]
We know that God is all-knowing. There's no argument there. In fact, we know God knew the church before we even existed. But why did God wait until Abraham's obedience to slay Isaac before he said this:
Genesis 22:12 NASB
12He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.”
Did he say it for his benefit, or ours? Ours, of course, for it seems God is interested in making judgments based on actual evidences (where possible). James' lesson on faith, and the showing of that faith for the purpose of justification, seems to hinge on this very verse. The evidence of one's fear and faith in God--the kind that saves--is in their doing. That's what God is wanting us to know, so that we won't get to the day of judgment with nothing more than the knowledge of Jesus which never got put to work to produce works.
Saving faith HAS to have works attached, or it isn't saving faith. Now you can hunt down a legalistic time frame and circumstances in which these works are to occur if you want, but that is missing the point. The point is, the faith that saves is the faith that changes a person who does righteous work. That's why a man is not justified by faith alone. He must also be justified by works. Because the faith that justifies (makes righteous) all by itself is the faith that then justifies (shows) a person as having the righteousness of faith through the works of righteousness that he does. Saving faith leaves the footprints of that faith behind it....the footprints of obedience, just like Abraham and the other Hebrews 11 'Hall of Faither's' did. If it's not leaving footprints, it's a 'faith' that can not save you.
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Missed this part... it was hiding). You have no idea how many posts I delete as God is saying,,,"Seriously, Kris?! You wanna really say that"? ~ I've learned not to argue with Him on that.[/COLOR]
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Sometimes I delete posts too because God raises that questioning eyebrow at me....It's like the "Dad stare" that says "seriously?"
Both my husband and son gives me it some days lol. Normally when I tell them a story about my day.
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