The truth behind the Law
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Certainly GOD gave ALL laws - does not mean He can't make changes or sub-divide it ?
We see from Ex 20v1-18 that GOD personally spoke to all the people assembled to hear Him. He spoke to all the assembly and they admitted to have heard Him Deut 5v24. However after having heard the 10 they refused to hear Him any more v25. In v22 we see that God added 'no more after personally giving the people 10 - and these are the moral, spiritual, eternal Commandments to love God and neighbour - separate from the other commands that followed through Moses which were carnal ordinances/works that were later abolished by Jesus who Himself became the sacrifice and His blood cleansing us Eph 2v15.from sin and dead works Heb9.
As I understand this GOD HIMself divided the Commandments and today we have the spiritual remaining Rom 7 and sacrificial rituals/works no longer required.
To take up another point in your post re the removing of the 4th Com...I was born and brought up RC and had that Com never removed but very subtly changed to ''keep the day of the lord holy'' which of course was to them ''sunday''....there was never any mention of it being the Sabbath Day...anything ''jewish' was alien and rejected.
We see from Ex 20v1-18 that GOD personally spoke to all the people assembled to hear Him. He spoke to all the assembly and they admitted to have heard Him Deut 5v24. However after having heard the 10 they refused to hear Him any more v25. In v22 we see that God added 'no more after personally giving the people 10 - and these are the moral, spiritual, eternal Commandments to love God and neighbour - separate from the other commands that followed through Moses which were carnal ordinances/works that were later abolished by Jesus who Himself became the sacrifice and His blood cleansing us Eph 2v15.from sin and dead works Heb9.
As I understand this GOD HIMself divided the Commandments and today we have the spiritual remaining Rom 7 and sacrificial rituals/works no longer required.
To take up another point in your post re the removing of the 4th Com...I was born and brought up RC and had that Com never removed but very subtly changed to ''keep the day of the lord holy'' which of course was to them ''sunday''....there was never any mention of it being the Sabbath Day...anything ''jewish' was alien and rejected.
While it is written in Exodus 20:1, "And God spake all these words, saying,..." it is also written, "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a God to Pharaoh:" Ex 7:1
Deuteronomy 5 is the same account of as written in Exodus 20, yet it begins "And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel,..." well you can read for yourself.
Are you sure that Exodus 20 contains the 10 commandments? How about Deuteronomy 5?
Neither Exodus 20 nor Deuteronomy 5 state that they contain the 10 Commandments, but I it is possible that I heard wrong yet the reason I call them statues is due to what is written in Deuteronomy 5:1; "... the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them."
Now in Mark 12:29 when asked which is the first commandment of all, it is written he replied, "The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD" And of course, So if Jesus said the first commandment was to hear O Israel then other 9 of the 10 commandments should be self evident.
So which 10 did you choose out of the 13 did you choose for your 10 Commandments,
Exosus 20
[1] 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[2] 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[3] 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[4] 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[5] 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[6] 12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
[7] 13 Thou shalt not kill.
[8] 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
[9] 15 Thou shalt not steal.
[10] 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
[11] 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
[12] 23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.
[13] 26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
Deuteronomy 5 is the same account of as written in Exodus 20, yet it begins "And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel,..." well you can read for yourself.
Are you sure that Exodus 20 contains the 10 commandments? How about Deuteronomy 5?
Neither Exodus 20 nor Deuteronomy 5 state that they contain the 10 Commandments, but I it is possible that I heard wrong yet the reason I call them statues is due to what is written in Deuteronomy 5:1; "... the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them."
Now in Mark 12:29 when asked which is the first commandment of all, it is written he replied, "The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD" And of course, So if Jesus said the first commandment was to hear O Israel then other 9 of the 10 commandments should be self evident.
So which 10 did you choose out of the 13 did you choose for your 10 Commandments,
Exosus 20
[1] 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
[2] 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
[3] 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
[4] 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
[5] 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
[6] 12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
[7] 13 Thou shalt not kill.
[8] 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
[9] 15 Thou shalt not steal.
[10] 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
[11] 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
[12] 23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.
[13] 26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
So what are your thoughts regarding 1 Thess 4:11 
Just had to ask....
Just had to ask....
I think we are being told to 2 things here.
1 to live a quit life, and not go around starting problems. By this I mean arguing over over ting even small tings. Or trying to create drama where there shouldn't be any.
2. We should not look to others to pay our way. Don't get me wrong, I am not going to say that a person doesn't need help from time to time. I am thankful that we do have a system in place for just that purpose. Yet at the same time, no one should just sit back and ride on the back of others that do work.
Ok I have to ask. Why did you ask about that passage? Seems an odd thing to find on a thread like this one.
What other 10 Coms are there that God personally gave to the people as listed in Ex 20 and Deut 5 in which Moses was simply re-iterating them after the people refused to hear God any more ?
The 10 ended with v17 after we have the rejection by the people....we can not add the other 2 you list to them.
The 10 ended with v17 after we have the rejection by the people....we can not add the other 2 you list to them.
Do you mind filling in on the changes to Sabbath? I am not going to go tell the podry anything, I would just like to know.
However I do find it odd that he would sy something that wasn't true, and even show copies of documents, to back it. That is going to be on mind for some time. I live for logic, things that are not logical bug me to no end.
Oh and thanks for your explanation. I have wanting that for some time. I know you told some of that once, yet I just never got it to add up in my mind. Were good though my friend. Always have been.
Oh one thing though. About the feast. Still standing or not? I have like 3 different things go through my mind when I think about it. I do keep them, as a reminder of all the great and wonderful things that has been for us all. SO if you don't, I can fully understand why.
However I do find it odd that he would sy something that wasn't true, and even show copies of documents, to back it. That is going to be on mind for some time. I live for logic, things that are not logical bug me to no end.
Oh and thanks for your explanation. I have wanting that for some time. I know you told some of that once, yet I just never got it to add up in my mind. Were good though my friend. Always have been.
Oh one thing though. About the feast. Still standing or not? I have like 3 different things go through my mind when I think about it. I do keep them, as a reminder of all the great and wonderful things that has been for us all. SO if you don't, I can fully understand why.
I have no information on the sabbath being changed. I come from a RCC european country who's teachings are never questioned.we were just told to 'keep holy the day of the lord - sunday and of course also the rest of the commandments. We were simple people and had no Bibles, maybe just a prayerbook, all RCC issued and teachings from the chatechism. GOD brought me out of that system to the UK when I was 20 and even then it was another 30 years before I was 'driven in desparation to truly seek Him. So I have nothing but personal experience ! I don't know why anyone should say the 4th Com was removed - but rather changed to another day way back in time, sunday worship has been popular.
Ahh the Feasts of the Lord...like you I NOW keep them symbolically as reminders of foundational events. but I did observe them more stringently, also the food laws, for more than 30 years until about 5/6 years ago.
Ahh the Feasts of the Lord...like you I NOW keep them symbolically as reminders of foundational events. but I did observe them more stringently, also the food laws, for more than 30 years until about 5/6 years ago.
I don't think you can call what I do keeping the feast, so I may have spoken out of turn on that. It is more like I observe the feast. Then that I think would depend on how one sees it.
I do stay with in the Dietary Laws, though around here that is not easy if you eat out. So I cook. The funny part is, I read every label of the things I buy. Well once I find one that is ok, I just stay with that one. If I want a change, I read the labels. As bad as I hate being in stores, I just can't let myself become lax. Sad when you think about it, having to read every label, why can't they just put in a section for folks like us? I know it really wouldn't be cost effective.
I do stay with in the Dietary Laws, though around here that is not easy if you eat out. So I cook. The funny part is, I read every label of the things I buy. Well once I find one that is ok, I just stay with that one. If I want a change, I read the labels. As bad as I hate being in stores, I just can't let myself become lax. Sad when you think about it, having to read every label, why can't they just put in a section for folks like us? I know it really wouldn't be cost effective.
Such wonderful lessons in the feasts, I must say the topic that has delighted me most in my later christian walk and opened my eyes to how wonderful God is and Jesus is the Sanctuary and its services. I remember the first time I saw Gethsemane in the Sacrificial service I cried.
I remember the first time I realised that the first basic temple seen was in Genesis 3. and so on. What a wonderful topic. and then of course to realise that revelation all takes place in the heavenly sanctuary of which the earthly was a copy.
I remember the first time I realised that the first basic temple seen was in Genesis 3. and so on. What a wonderful topic. and then of course to realise that revelation all takes place in the heavenly sanctuary of which the earthly was a copy.
Same here
Ok, it is obvious that you are not using a KJV translations since you reference 'quiet life' and the KJV translation is
"And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;"
you probably think I would say something about the difference in translations, but I am sure you already know that your translation is copyrighted by the author(s) and in such they could not have obtained a copyright for their translation unless it is materially changed to distinguish it from the KJV since the KJV is public domain in the US and therefore can not be copyrighted.
Thus, in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth becomes in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The KJV did get 'we' translated correctly right? I was just wondering if you know who the 'we' are in your translation?
Ok, it is obvious that you are not using a KJV translations since you reference 'quiet life' and the KJV translation is
"And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;"
you probably think I would say something about the difference in translations, but I am sure you already know that your translation is copyrighted by the author(s) and in such they could not have obtained a copyright for their translation unless it is materially changed to distinguish it from the KJV since the KJV is public domain in the US and therefore can not be copyrighted.
Thus, in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth becomes in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The KJV did get 'we' translated correctly right? I was just wondering if you know who the 'we' are in your translation?
We once had a kosher store here, they went under, as not many folks went in more than once. I loved it, I know I was getting what was right, and could get in and out.
When it comes to meat, I do my best. I am thankful that a lot of my meat comes from hunting. That may all change, as I can't get around like I use to. Still, not going to say forget it to much trouble.
When it comes to meat, I do my best. I am thankful that a lot of my meat comes from hunting. That may all change, as I can't get around like I use to. Still, not going to say forget it to much trouble.
Amen. It was the study of the Sanctuary that lead me to also study the Law. Once I see so clearly just how the Temple, was lied out, and how it so vividly gave a full pitcher of Salvation, want to talk about a life changer. Only now I cry every time I see how Israel forgot so fast. It brakes my heart. I do pray for Israel everyday. Their PM has made some bonehead moves, yet he has also done what he could to return Israel to Torah. At lest the parts of Torah that to him seem right. Yes just like everyone in the World, even Israel debates Torah, and most likely will until the end of this earth.
Same here
Ok, it is obvious that you are not using a KJV translations since you reference 'quiet life' and the KJV translation is
"And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;"
you probably think I would say something about the difference in translations, but I am sure you already know that your translation is copyrighted by the author(s) and in such they could not have obtained a copyright for their translation unless it is materially changed to distinguish it from the KJV since the KJV is public domain in the US and therefore can not be copyrighted.
Thus, in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth becomes in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The KJV did get 'we' translated correctly right? I was just wondering if you know who the 'we' are in your translation?
Ok, it is obvious that you are not using a KJV translations since you reference 'quiet life' and the KJV translation is
"And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;"
you probably think I would say something about the difference in translations, but I am sure you already know that your translation is copyrighted by the author(s) and in such they could not have obtained a copyright for their translation unless it is materially changed to distinguish it from the KJV since the KJV is public domain in the US and therefore can not be copyrighted.
Thus, in the beginning God created the heaven and the earth becomes in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The KJV did get 'we' translated correctly right? I was just wondering if you know who the 'we' are in your translation?
The we, is the body of Yeshua. all believers make up that body. That I din't comment on, as I just take somethings as being understood. Inn this case, I had no reason to think you wouldn't know. If you had not, then I don't think that would have came to your mind.
Keep it up my friend. You will keep me on my toes that way, I like it.
I feel the same way. It really isn't hard to see, one you understand what you are seeing. The gate way, then the alter, so on. Add to the narrowness of it, Everything is all in one place. It comes a live, and can fill a person so much joy. You got my mind on it now, and I can't seem to shake it. Not that I want to,
Fair enough. So if the 10 ended with verse 17, you still would have 11 but I see what you mean. Since verse 3 says Thou shalt while the other 10 say Thou shalt not then it must not be a commandment. I know that Paul referred unto verse 12 as the first commandment of promise but it doesn't use Thou shalt or Thou Shalt not.
Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise Eph 6:2
Did you know that Ephesian is Greek for Deuteronomy? so there is obviously nothing to see what Deuteronomy 6 says so maybe it was Exodus 6 where it is written about the heart of stone referenced in Jeremiah 31:34.
Your absolutely right. You can't add to them nor subtract from the 10 commandments or multiply the division.
So what are the 10 that you hold to be eternal?
By eternal I am referring unto the word 6924 which in the OT is qedem (keh'-dem); or qedmah (kayd'-maw); from OT:6923;
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Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
Eph 6:2Did you know that Ephesian is Greek for Deuteronomy? so there is obviously nothing to see what Deuteronomy 6 says so maybe it was Exodus 6 where it is written about the heart of stone referenced in Jeremiah 31:34.
Your absolutely right. You can't add to them nor subtract from the 10 commandments or multiply the division.
So what are the 10 that you hold to be eternal?
By eternal I am referring unto the word 6924 which in the OT is qedem (keh'-dem); or qedmah (kayd'-maw); from OT:6923;
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