The truth behind the Law

[Zmouth]

I tock the time to read that in more than one. The words you see are mine, I just gave you my understanding of it is all. That was in no way a quote from any thing.

The we, is the body of Yeshua. all believers make up that body. That I din't comment on, as I just take somethings as being understood. Inn this case, I had no reason to think you wouldn't know. If you had not, then I don't think that would have came to your mind.

Keep it up my friend. You will keep me on my toes that way, I like it.

I don't know anything or I would study to be quiet. So let me ask one more question if you don't mind since I got the 'we' wrong and you did give a very good interpretation of 1 Tim 2:2, so what are your thoughts on 2 Peter 1:21?

 

[Ariel82]

I understand the verse from the OP in light of these and the law being nailed to the cross:

Colossians 2

16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,d puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22(referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

*****

Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and it's laws and replaced it with the New Covenant. The laws are still in place for those who do not have a saving faith in Jesus, but for those who do they are shadows of a greater promise found in Christ Jesus.

 

[Rainrider]

I don't know anything or I would study to be quiet. So let me ask one more question if you don't mind since I got the 'we' wrong and you did give a very good interpretation of 1 Tim 2:2, so what are your thoughts on 2 Peter 1:21?

I think to get a full understanding one would do well to read 20 along with it.
Once we do that, it becomes clear that He is letting us know that man can not will a thing into being. Though as it talks about prophecy, he is making it clear that ma can not see what is coming, unless HaShem opens their eyes to it. Take John, when he wrote the Book of Rev. He could not have known any of what he seen, had not HaShem opened his eyes, and shown him.
Private interpretation.
They (the prophets) only speak what HaShem has gave them. They do not try to tell you what it means, unless they are told to. Also it is not open to ones own way of thinking, we must see it for what it is, and then it must fall into context with the whole of the Word, and not just the parts we hope fit.
A side note if you don't mind. One may also find in the passages, that the Spirit of HaShem, ( Ruach HaKodesh) is not something that just showed up after Yeshua, as some teach. It is and always will be that part of HaShem that speaks to us. Telling us when we do wrong, or when we are going to do something wrong.
Ever had the odd feeling that something just wasn't right? Then you find out latter that something had gone way wrong? That is what this is talking about. Well more or lass anyway.

 

[miknik5]

The TRUTH behind the law is CHRIST
for all the lower visible signs and rituals and forms of worship were to point us to the higher invisible spiritual TRUTHS found in HIM alone

Now I will "sutup"

 

[miknik5]

By the way
Genesis 1 JPS Tanakh 1917 version:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters. 3And God said: ‘Let there be light.’ And there was light.

 

[Rainrider]

I understand the verse from the OP in light of these and the law being nailed to the cross:

Colossians 2

16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,d puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

I nether let others condemn me nor do I condemn them for what they wish to do. Trust me is not for a lack of trying on the part of many on here. Though as I read this, Paul was not speaking of Torah here. rather he was speaking of the misuse of Torah. If you will note, it tells us that they are a shadow of things TO COME, he has not placed them in the past. as would be the case had he said they were, rather than they are.

As for, asceticism. NO place in the OT places a prohibition on alcohol. Yet in his time the teaching of many things that are not in the OT were be passed off as truth, and in many cases Law. Even to the point of the worship of angles. That can still be seen today,

20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22(referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

Here we find Paul asking why if a person is no longer of this world would they still follow the ways of the world. He is trying to get them to see the truth, in that once we are free of this world, we should then follow the way of HaShem and not man.

*****

Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and it's laws and replaced it with the New Covenant. The laws are still in place for those who do not have a saving faith in Jesus, but for those who do they are shadows of a greater promise found in Christ Jesus.

As I am sure you can see I simply do not see the way you do. I gave you what I see in the passages you opened with, and I am not about to condemn anyone if they wish to follow any other thinking, That is not my job, HaShem will show us the truth when we get to the Judgment Set, until then I will keep on keeping on. Though I will say that what you have posted in way tells me anything about the Law being removed, in fat it shows me that it has not been. That is once a person reads it in context with the whole of the Word. Just me, no matter what you say, I am me. I understand that the road I on is the right one, for me. Keep in mind, that if I am wrong I loss nothing at all. If on the other hand you are wrong, what can you loss?

 

[miknik5]

GOD HIMSELF puts 'difference between holy and unholy...so what GOD calls holy do not thou call unholy...as people are doing with HIS Commandments by handing them over to Moses and be abolished. I would call that an 'UNholy act on man's part !

As people are doing with those who have been waahes

for if HE does not wash us, we have no part with and in HIM


Then of course we won't understand that what we are trying to attain, HE has already done

 

[miknik5]

I believe this thread is more professing "self" than CHRIST

 

[Zmouth]

I believe this thread is more professing "self" than CHRIST

Is that Christ's opinion or yours?

 

[miknik5]

You seem to think that Jesus finished ALL His work on the cross, past present and future ---I don't. Certainly all was included for our salvation but WE are not yet completed, finished and perfected...are we ? HE finished what HE could do for us as a man...die in our stead...nobody can add anything to that...but He is back now working in the Spirit.

HE is back because one believes in HIM
HE is not working in all men
only those who believe in HIM

Just thought I'd clarify that
when one is washed, they know they're washed

this idea that we are to somehow work to keep our salvation is in line to Paula admonishing the foolish galatians

having begun in THE SPIRIT are you now trying to justify yourselves?


Is there any here who will, on that day, profess themselves and their many "righteous works

 

[miknik5]

Is that Christ's opinion or yours?

From going back and reading the posts I see a self profession of self

is it your opinion that a man needs to, before his brothers and sisters, announce himself and what he does?

should the brothers and sisters depend on his words and look to him and what he does?

or can they look to CHRIST and be led by HIM since HE alone is the HEAD of HIS OWN BODY

And, by the NEW COVENANT, we are told no man can tell another know THE LORD
yet here we are in this thread and a man is telling others I'm not saying that you should do this, but its what I do


That's professing self and not CHRIST

 

[Burninglight]

I believe this thread is more professing "self" than CHRIST

Why do you feel this way?

 

[miknik5]

The truth behind the law was that it was supposed to bring us to CHRIST

 

[miknik5]

Why do you feel this way?

Did you follow the thread

 

[miknik5]

And his profession of himself and what he does and how he doesn't allow anyone to condemn him is all done in a thread titled the "truth" behind the law?

that isn't the TRUTH behind the law

CHRIST alone is
now if he wants to work out his own salvation let him
but does he have to announce it to other brothers and sisters all under the allusion that he is looking for help from his brothers and sisters

the sabbath is everyday for our form of worship before THE LORD is our lives as an offering before HIM

 

[miknik5]

Now, according to the thread author I will "sit down and sutup"

by the way I have no idea where it came from or why


i suspect it came from his nit understanding that I used a JPS version of Genesis that he and another poster were not familiar with and therefore assumed I added to GOD's WORD

 

[miknik5]

Not only that, rainrider, you said you didn't want to have accusations in your thread, you came across as if this was something you wanted to avoid but when I was unjustly attacked by FGT and did not fight back, what did you do, but add fuel to the fire and told me, out of nowhere, to "sit down and sutup"?

 

[miknik5]

I think you have lost all validity in my eyes and are a phony pushing your own agenda

 

[miknik5]

If EVERY brother and sister could tell me that I am stupid and my insight is wrong, I would greatly appreciate it and then I will "sit down and sutup"

nit just FGT, seven seas, and Rainrider
those brothers and sisters who know me and whom I can trust to speak TRUTH to me

then I will "sit down and sutup" as Rainrider commanded me to do

 

[Zmouth]

I think to get a full understanding one would do well to read 20 along with it.

Well, the question was regarding the 'we' in the writings of Paul in 1 Thess 4:11 "And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;" While verse in 2 Peter 1:20 wherein it is written "Knowing this first, that no prophesy of scripture is of any private interpretation" could be the reason for the passage in Matthew wherein it is written, "think not that I have come to destroy the law and prophets, I am come not to destroy but fulfil." Yet in regards to the question of 'we' that would be getting off topic, it is still none the less true.

So if Paul was writing about the body of Christ, being the collective body of believers, then maybe you missed what Paul wrote in Acts 27:23"For there stood by me this night the angel of God, who is I am, and whom I serve," and it doesn't appear you caught the one who I thought was Paul was referring unto by the 'we', being the Holy Ghost.

More to the story but I got to get moving before the cool of the day is gone. But I will check back when I can.

Once we do that, it becomes clear that He is letting us know that man can not will a thing into being.

So how do reconcile that belief with the scripture such as the following:

6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Genesis 11:6

Anyway, thanks for the conversation, I appreciate it.