Not By Works
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The above bolded lie is exactly why you will die in your sins and be cast from the presence of the Lord unless you get right and acknowledge JESUS and his sacrifice on your behalf while realizing he is the payment for your sin SPONGE!! The scriptures below prove you are wrong in the bolded comment above...ALL HONEST PEOPLE CAN SEE YOU ARE FALSE
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
ND ON AND ON AND ON.....Wake up to the truth pal!
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
ND ON AND ON AND ON.....Wake up to the truth pal!
Obvious you fail to understand FAITH and VICTORY.........and the men described in the verse you yank to push a working for I don't sin to stay saved dogma is applicable unto ALL who have not acknowledged JESUS......one day (hopefully) you figure this out before it is too late....like the Pharisee of old encompassing land and sea....people sold under religion must get over two things now instead of one.....
My apologies, I was mistaken, for it was not until Genesis 17 that Sarah was
promised to bear a son, and Ishmael was already born and a teenager by then.
15 God also said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. 16 I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.”
17 Abraham fell face down; he laughed and said to himself, “Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!”
19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.” 22 When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him.
23 On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household, and circumcised them, as God told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, 25 and his son Ishmael was thirteen;26 Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day.
promised to bear a son, and Ishmael was already born and a teenager by then.
15 God also said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. 16 I will bless her and will surely give you a son by her. I will bless her so that she will be the mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her.”
17 Abraham fell face down; he laughed and said to himself, “Will a son be born to a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah bear a child at the age of ninety?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael might live under your blessing!”
19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. 21 But my covenant I will establish with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you by this time next year.” 22 When he had finished speaking with Abraham, God went up from him.
23 On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household, and circumcised them, as God told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, 25 and his son Ishmael was thirteen;26 Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that very day.
Obviously you seem to lack the understanding that what I judge is his DOGMA....and one who states that JESUS did not pay for our sins by his very mouth states he is lost according to the word....just don't engage me JIM...you have proven you refuse to acknowledge any truth and the fact that what we judge is the false GOSPEL he pushes.....JUST as the men of the bible DID......simple....
J
ssssiiiggghhh*** IF losing one's salvation WERE possible, (short of rejecting Jesus Christ) ... then, WHY THE FINISHED WORK OF THE CROSS? Is that too simple of a question to comprehend? Why would God allow the horror and cruelty of the cross for something which could be lost, making Jesus' sacrifice completely useless... knowing man's hearts were "inherently sinful" and they could NOT, ON THEIR OWN, be saved...NO MATTER WHAT?! ~ That is NOT giving man the "go ahead, stupid, keep sinning," freedom to discount the cross. On the contrary... BECAUSE of the finished work of the cross... the BELIEVER wants desperately to be sinless, but WE ARE HUMAN with HUMAN FLAWS, which, Thank God for the blood of Jesus perpetually washing over us UNTIL, "We are made just like Him".
I would add this too Dcon, that the overcomers are those who overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and the Word of testimony. Both His and ours.
If we are in Him, we are not of that list. That would be applying that list to Him. All we do is abide...in Him. By faith. All the other things fall into place as He leads us.
If we are in Him, we are not of that list. That would be applying that list to Him. All we do is abide...in Him. By faith. All the other things fall into place as He leads us.
No, actually you were right.......Abraham lacked faith and took HAGAR by decree from his wife to help GOD fulfill his promise.....
Acts 7:2-5 & vss. 44-46
2And he said, "Brethren and fathers, listen: The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran, 3and said to him, 'Get out of your country and from your relatives, and come to a land that I will show you.' 4Then he came out of the land of the Chaldeans and dwelt in Haran. And from there, when his father was dead, He moved him to this land in which you now dwell. 5And God gave him no inheritance in it, not even enough to set his foot on. But even when Abraham had no child, He promised to give it to him for a possession, and to his descendants after him.
Sarah was the wife of Abraham. Hagar was the servant of Sarah. God had promised Abraham many descendants, but, ten years after the promise, Sarah was still unable to have children, and they were both on the verge of becoming too old to have children at all. Sarah chose to give her servant Hagar to Abraham, in accordance with the custom of day, so that Sarah could have a child through her (Genesis 16:2).
Acts 7:2-5 & vss. 44-46
2And he said, "Brethren and fathers, listen: The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran, 3and said to him, 'Get out of your country and from your relatives, and come to a land that I will show you.' 4Then he came out of the land of the Chaldeans and dwelt in Haran. And from there, when his father was dead, He moved him to this land in which you now dwell. 5And God gave him no inheritance in it, not even enough to set his foot on. But even when Abraham had no child, He promised to give it to him for a possession, and to his descendants after him.
Sarah was the wife of Abraham. Hagar was the servant of Sarah. God had promised Abraham many descendants, but, ten years after the promise, Sarah was still unable to have children, and they were both on the verge of becoming too old to have children at all. Sarah chose to give her servant Hagar to Abraham, in accordance with the custom of day, so that Sarah could have a child through her (Genesis 16:2).
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This is a true realisation of reality.
God foreknew the fall of man, and his final redemption.
So in a sense God made available the possibility and reality for people to sin and fall
short of the glory of God. So does God carry some of the guilt?
My answer is what is the price of God having children in the Kingdom?
For me if this was eternal torture I would have a problem, because how can eternal
punishment as in conscious torture make sense. But a place for judgement and then
annihilation, or eternal destruction, does add up.
Now I do not like this idea in one sense, but what we believe about God and what we
call justice is also part of Gods calling. How can He call us to judge others, and we do
not understand the principles of love and responsibility, justice and mercy?
Think of a model where a person with learning difficulties, is born, lives a long life
and dies. They never have a chance to know the gospel or God in a real sense, and
die lost. What is the purpose of life to be turned into eternal torment? Is the confusion
and disfunctional nature of their lives their fault or the consequences of the opportunity
of living like any other person without communion with God or transformation.
It is not unjust to give life for a season, with all its blessing and benefits and finally remove
it as it is expected of all living things that are mortal. Why should life be more or less than
this? So God allows the opportunity for sin and rebellion but does not command it. It is the
cost of creating a people of His own, and choosing those who respond to His call.
God foreknew the fall of man, and his final redemption.
So in a sense God made available the possibility and reality for people to sin and fall
short of the glory of God. So does God carry some of the guilt?
My answer is what is the price of God having children in the Kingdom?
For me if this was eternal torture I would have a problem, because how can eternal
punishment as in conscious torture make sense. But a place for judgement and then
annihilation, or eternal destruction, does add up.
Now I do not like this idea in one sense, but what we believe about God and what we
call justice is also part of Gods calling. How can He call us to judge others, and we do
not understand the principles of love and responsibility, justice and mercy?
Think of a model where a person with learning difficulties, is born, lives a long life
and dies. They never have a chance to know the gospel or God in a real sense, and
die lost. What is the purpose of life to be turned into eternal torment? Is the confusion
and disfunctional nature of their lives their fault or the consequences of the opportunity
of living like any other person without communion with God or transformation.
It is not unjust to give life for a season, with all its blessing and benefits and finally remove
it as it is expected of all living things that are mortal. Why should life be more or less than
this? So God allows the opportunity for sin and rebellion but does not command it. It is the
cost of creating a people of His own, and choosing those who respond to His call.
Roger,
You have it backwards.
When you were NOT born again you DID NOT have real Free Will. You were not truly free.
Because you were a slave to sin. You were under the submission to sin and to the evil one.
Once you became born again, you became TRULY FREE.
John 8:32
You will know the truth and the truth will make you truly free.
The truth (at least some of it) is that you were under the domain of satan before.
Knowing this, and his hold on you, will now MAKE YOU FREE.
Now you have true free will because you are no longer a slave to sin, but a slave to the TRUTH.
Romans 6:14
Romans 6:6
Romans 6:16
John 8:32
You have it backwards.
When you were NOT born again you DID NOT have real Free Will. You were not truly free.
Because you were a slave to sin. You were under the submission to sin and to the evil one.
Once you became born again, you became TRULY FREE.
John 8:32
You will know the truth and the truth will make you truly free.
The truth (at least some of it) is that you were under the domain of satan before.
Knowing this, and his hold on you, will now MAKE YOU FREE.
Now you have true free will because you are no longer a slave to sin, but a slave to the TRUTH.
Romans 6:14
Romans 6:6
Romans 6:16
John 8:32
I hear this all the time..... somebody is going to Hell because they believe they have to have righteous works to truly live by faith.
The OSAS's & the easy-believists talk outta both sides of their mouths.....
First, they say once a person repents of their sins & accept Jesus as their Savior, they're saved, & nothing they do after that can change that, period.
Then, when they approach somebody that doesn't believe that last bolded part, they talk outta the other side of their mouth & say that person's going to Hell unless they believe the way they do.
How can you have it both ways?!?
If you believe willybob's going to Hell, then you must denounce your doctrine that says he's saved forever.
It's time for you to come clean, pal.
The OSAS's & the easy-believists talk outta both sides of their mouths.....
First, they say once a person repents of their sins & accept Jesus as their Savior, they're saved, & nothing they do after that can change that, period.
Then, when they approach somebody that doesn't believe that last bolded part, they talk outta the other side of their mouth & say that person's going to Hell unless they believe the way they do.
How can you have it both ways?!?
If you believe willybob's going to Hell, then you must denounce your doctrine that says he's saved forever.
It's time for you to come clean, pal.
His posts and my posts speak for themselves and what you said has no bearing on what I addressed concerning his posts...maybe you need glasses or need to slow down and actually understand what is being addressed before you post....
so....do you believe Jesus is the payment for sin or NOT....which is it...put you money where your mouth is!
