Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues
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Yes, some of the things practiced by some Pentecostal groups are not biblical. Getting "slain in the spirit", falling over backwards, passing out, eyes rolling back in the head, uncontrollable "holy laughter", getting "drunk in the spirit", and the like are not biblical REGARDLESS of what people's experiences are.
I agree that the manifestation of prophesy is not predicting the future. It is speaking words of "edification, exhortation, and comfort" (1 Cor 14:3).
Tongues is not a gift. It is a manifestation of the gift of holy Spirit.
What tongue? A person does not know what his tongue is. He does not know what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2, 14).
Speaking in tongues is not "vain and profane babbling". It is speaking a language you do not know. And while the Bible never uses the term "prayer language", speaking in tongues is praying in the spirit (1 Cor 14:14; Eph 6:18; Jude 1:20). Also, a person speaking by the spirit of God (speaking in tongues) is NEVER calling Jesus accursed (1 Cor 12:3).
Only if it's done in public.
We disagree. I believe Paul wrote as he was inspired by God.
Actually, the word "gifts" is not in the text. The word is "pneumatikos", and it means "spiritual things" or "spiritual matters".
No, I do not think Paul was "exalting" tongues over prophesy. But read the chapter. Paul spends a LOT of time going over the proper usage of tongues in that chapter.
Keep reading:
2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3) But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
When people speak in tongues out loud and interpret, the church is edified. This does not negate that when people speak in tongues to themselves they are speaking divine secrets to God (1 Cor 14:2), they are speaking the wonderful works of God, magnifying God (Acts 2:11; 10:46), they are giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17), and they are edifying themselves (1 Cor 14:4; Jude 1:20).
That's right. The things done in the church should edify the church.
You are overlooking that Paul is speaking of being in the church, in a meeting.
Also, again, tongues is not a gift. And for that matter, neither is prophesy. Both ate manifestations.
I am not taking any verses out of context. And again, tongues and prophesy are not gifts, they are manifestations.
Come on, Enow. You're basically saying "I am right and if you disagree with me you need to ask Jesus to help you understand". I could just as easily state that YOU need to ask Jesus to help YOU understand the truth in what I am saying. But that usually does not go over well...
You need to consider the possibility that you are wrong. We ALL do..
We are discussing the scriptures, "reasoning out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2). I hope we can continue.
I agree that the manifestation of prophesy is not predicting the future. It is speaking words of "edification, exhortation, and comfort" (1 Cor 14:3).
Tongues is not a gift. It is a manifestation of the gift of holy Spirit.
What tongue? A person does not know what his tongue is. He does not know what he is saying (1 Cor 14:2, 14).
Speaking in tongues is not "vain and profane babbling". It is speaking a language you do not know. And while the Bible never uses the term "prayer language", speaking in tongues is praying in the spirit (1 Cor 14:14; Eph 6:18; Jude 1:20). Also, a person speaking by the spirit of God (speaking in tongues) is NEVER calling Jesus accursed (1 Cor 12:3).
Only if it's done in public.
We disagree. I believe Paul wrote as he was inspired by God.
Actually, the word "gifts" is not in the text. The word is "pneumatikos", and it means "spiritual things" or "spiritual matters".
No, I do not think Paul was "exalting" tongues over prophesy. But read the chapter. Paul spends a LOT of time going over the proper usage of tongues in that chapter.
Keep reading:
2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3) But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
When people speak in tongues out loud and interpret, the church is edified. This does not negate that when people speak in tongues to themselves they are speaking divine secrets to God (1 Cor 14:2), they are speaking the wonderful works of God, magnifying God (Acts 2:11; 10:46), they are giving thanks well (1 Cor 14:17), and they are edifying themselves (1 Cor 14:4; Jude 1:20).
That's right. The things done in the church should edify the church.
You are overlooking that Paul is speaking of being in the church, in a meeting.
Also, again, tongues is not a gift. And for that matter, neither is prophesy. Both ate manifestations.
I am not taking any verses out of context. And again, tongues and prophesy are not gifts, they are manifestations.
Come on, Enow. You're basically saying "I am right and if you disagree with me you need to ask Jesus to help you understand". I could just as easily state that YOU need to ask Jesus to help YOU understand the truth in what I am saying. But that usually does not go over well...
You need to consider the possibility that you are wrong. We ALL do..
We are discussing the scriptures, "reasoning out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2). I hope we can continue.
I would never say to the same extent of power as Jesus had Wolf. I believe it will take all of the body together moving as One with Him to do the works that Jesus did. But, there are those who have special giftings...and there is increase in them.
I wish you would see...and receive. He wants to give you this too.
I wish you would see...and receive. He wants to give you this too.
Then reason from this scripture below;
1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21[/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
How can God's gift of tongues mimic the supernatural tongue which was already in the world before Pentecost? That is hardly abstaining from all appearances of evil.
That is why I believe God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people as 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 says. It cannot be used as the Holy Spirit's means as a personal prayer language as John 16:13 says so in all Bibles.
1 Thessalonians 5:[SUP]21[/SUP]Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Abstain from all appearance of evil.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
How can God's gift of tongues mimic the supernatural tongue which was already in the world before Pentecost? That is hardly abstaining from all appearances of evil.
That is why I believe God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people as 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 says. It cannot be used as the Holy Spirit's means as a personal prayer language as John 16:13 says so in all Bibles.
Glorifying the gifts? Paul makes it clear they are not needed in the resurrection, tongues shall cease, knowledge shall pass away when what is perfect has come. Praying in tongues is praying by the Holy Spirit and helped stand against temptation of ungodly women, most necessary, yes also to get past the stagnation from drug addiction.
I hope it was good! 
No they are not. Tongues are one of the nine MANIFESTATIONS of the singular gift of holy Spirit.
No it doesn't. This is sort of an appropriate analogy. Say I gave you a Swiss Army knife. That Swiss Army knife can be used in several different ways. It has a knife blade, a fish scaler, scissors, a couple of screw drivers, etc. The gift is the Swiss Army knife. Its manifestations are the various tools on it. I gave the knife to you, and it's yours to do with what you will. You may choose to use the knife, the scissors, or any of the tools that it comes with. Or you could keep it in your pocket and never use it at all. When a Christian is saved, he is sealed with the gift of holy spirit (Eph 1:13). In 1 Cor 12:7, Paul states that the manifestation of the spirit is given to EVERY MAN (Christian), and then the manifestations are listed. Tongues is one of the nine manifestations of the singular gift of holy Spirit.
Tongues is one of the nine MANIFESTATIONS of the singular gift of holy Spirit. The other manifestations are word of knowledge, word of wisdom, faith, miracles, gifts of healings, discerning of spirits, interpretation of tongues, and prophesy.
I am NOT saying that if a Christian does not speak in tongues he is not saved! A person becomes saved when he confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9).
There are MANY wonderful Christians, born of Holy Spirit, who do not speak in tongues. Probably even MOST Christians do not speak in tongues. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that you're one of them... But I submit that the main reasons most Christians don't speak in tongues is because they do not know what it is, and they do not know that they can.
There is no precedent in 1 Cor 12 that says another must interpret what someone else speaks in a tongue. There are explicit verses that I listed above that say the person speaking in tongues is to be the one who interprets.
The overall context of 1 Cor 11-14 is meetings in the church.
1 Cor 11:
17)(ESV) But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse.
17) (NIV) In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good.
IN MEETINGS, not everyone is to do everything. For one thing, there simply isn't time... God inspires different people to do different things. But Paul clearly states that all Christians are to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5a), and later in the chapter he gives an example:
1 Cor 14:
23) If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
That indicates that all Christians CAN speak in tongues (but not that they should all speak at once out loud).
And as far as another person must interpret what someone spoke in tongues, we have explicit instruction from Paul:
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
The person who speaks in tongues is to be the one who interprets.
That is correct. Obviously, any teaching or preaching must be done in a language the people understand. When people speak in tongues, nobody understands what is being said unless it is interpreted (1 Cor 14:5). When people speak in tongues aloud and interpret, only two or three people should do it, one after another, and they must interpret (1 Cor 14:27).
Tongues is not a witnessing tool. Tongues is never used to teach the gospel.
No they are not. Tongues are one of the nine MANIFESTATIONS of the singular gift of holy Spirit.
No it doesn't. This is sort of an appropriate analogy. Say I gave you a Swiss Army knife. That Swiss Army knife can be used in several different ways. It has a knife blade, a fish scaler, scissors, a couple of screw drivers, etc. The gift is the Swiss Army knife. Its manifestations are the various tools on it. I gave the knife to you, and it's yours to do with what you will. You may choose to use the knife, the scissors, or any of the tools that it comes with. Or you could keep it in your pocket and never use it at all. When a Christian is saved, he is sealed with the gift of holy spirit (Eph 1:13). In 1 Cor 12:7, Paul states that the manifestation of the spirit is given to EVERY MAN (Christian), and then the manifestations are listed. Tongues is one of the nine manifestations of the singular gift of holy Spirit.
Tongues is one of the nine MANIFESTATIONS of the singular gift of holy Spirit. The other manifestations are word of knowledge, word of wisdom, faith, miracles, gifts of healings, discerning of spirits, interpretation of tongues, and prophesy.
I am NOT saying that if a Christian does not speak in tongues he is not saved! A person becomes saved when he confesses Jesus Christ as Lord and believes in his heart that God raised him from the dead (Rom 10:9).
There are MANY wonderful Christians, born of Holy Spirit, who do not speak in tongues. Probably even MOST Christians do not speak in tongues. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that you're one of them...
But I submit that the main reasons most Christians don't speak in tongues is because they do not know what it is, and they do not know that they can. There is no precedent in 1 Cor 12 that says another must interpret what someone else speaks in a tongue. There are explicit verses that I listed above that say the person speaking in tongues is to be the one who interprets.
The overall context of 1 Cor 11-14 is meetings in the church.
1 Cor 11:
17)(ESV) But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse.
17) (NIV) In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good.
IN MEETINGS, not everyone is to do everything. For one thing, there simply isn't time... God inspires different people to do different things. But Paul clearly states that all Christians are to speak in tongues (1 Cor 14:5a), and later in the chapter he gives an example:
1 Cor 14:
23) If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
That indicates that all Christians CAN speak in tongues (but not that they should all speak at once out loud).
And as far as another person must interpret what someone spoke in tongues, we have explicit instruction from Paul:
1 Cor 14:
5) I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
The person who speaks in tongues is to be the one who interprets.
That is correct. Obviously, any teaching or preaching must be done in a language the people understand. When people speak in tongues, nobody understands what is being said unless it is interpreted (1 Cor 14:5). When people speak in tongues aloud and interpret, only two or three people should do it, one after another, and they must interpret (1 Cor 14:27).
Tongues is not a witnessing tool. Tongues is never used to teach the gospel.
The Swiss knife was a very good analogy. When we got saved we were given the Holy Spirit to be our comforter, Teacher and Guide. And we got sealed until the day of redemption. Jesus gave us all things pertaining to life and godliness. It's our job now to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit always points us to Him. To work "out" what Jesus has given us. We do this with all seriousness and determination. Not to gain salvation but to work out our salvation.
I was saved in a church that was vehemently apposed to speaking in tongues so of course none of us ever wanted to do 'that'. And we steered clear of any of the 'wackos' who did. What we are taught by other trusted Christians is going to be majorly important to our growth. I've learned it's most important to be developing an intimate relationship with Jesus. To be learning from the Holy Spirit first and not to only listen to other Christians because people are not the only way we learn. We first go the Bible and then the Holy Spirit teaches us through His Word how to rightly interpret and walk in the truth.
We were given the Holy Spirit to be our teacher, guide and comforter. He is not given to point out our sin as some here have posted. He reproves the world of sin and the believer of his righteousness. The devil is the one who condemns and accuses the believer about sin. he is the accuser of the brethren. The Holy Spirit reminds us of who we are in Christ. We are righteous IN Christ and we are the sons of God. These things are gifts we received and did not earn. We were saved by grace through faith. His Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. That is His job., to constantly remind us of our standing because we will for sure be constantly pointed to our own abilities by the world, the flesh and the devil., and then we will soon to forget who we are in this world. And if we start to believe the world, the flesh and the devil, we will not be listening to the Holy Spirit.
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Speaking in Tongues/Communion ***Jesus was in perfect communion with the Father and did not need to speak in tongues***we are connected to God in perfect communion through the Spirit***Pray in English and Pray in Tongues---the Spirit knows our needs and communicates them***sometimes we do not know our own needs or the needs of others, but the Spirit does and prays the perfect will of God for them...
Amen 88. There are so many things that I disagree with that gets posted here that can't be all gotten too. I've decided to answer what I can at a given time and usually someone else who is better at it gets to all the other things. Thank you so much for mentioning this. Jesus had no need to speak in tongues He already has the Father's Spirit and heart in all matters. We are the ones in need of the Holy Spirit and that is why Jesus sent Him to us. And I'm sooooo thankful He did!!!
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If Paul was saying that the gift of tongues and knowledge won't cease until we're in Christ's presence in eternity, you'll have to explain why faith and hope still remain after both have been fully realized. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Once Christ has redeemed us, we're no longer hoping for it in faith are we ? Now these three remain .. faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. Your timeline for tongues ceasing makes no sense.
For all tongue speakers to participate in a survey on how you got your gift of tongues; Please take the time to vote.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/154806-tongue-speakers-survey.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/154806-tongue-speakers-survey.html
Okay.
But you do not agree that from verse 1, Paul was trying to show believers why they should seek the gift of prophesy when zealous for spiritual gift?
1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
Paul began explaining why in verse 2 starting with tongues, but you must have missed why he was comparing tongues against prophesy because you do not believe prophesy is better.
Gift and manifestation are interchangeable.
1 Corinthians 12:1[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.[SUP]6 [/SUP]And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.[SUP]7[/SUP]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
In context, tongues cannot be a stand alone gift at all nor was it ever meant to serve individually only to the tongue speaker. Even prophesy had to come with two or three where one other was to judge that edification.
Which is why it is to come with interpretation when tongues are done in the assembly. If it does not come with interpretation, that person is to be made silent because he is just a foreigner speaking out of turn as he understands what he is saying as God does; not that he is speaking to himself like a loon and speaking to God in that way too.
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]28 [/SUP]But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
If God was manifesting tongues in someone that did not come with interpretation, who is Paul to tell any one to be silent? In this incident where so many tongue speakers are misreading Paul's message here in verse 28, if it was the Holy Spirit manifesting God's gift of tongues, then Paul should have said, when no interpretation, it is prayer time for the Holy Spirit, but he did not. This dignifies that God's gift of tongues was to come with interpretation, and at no time did it ever meant it was prayer time for the Holy Spirit.
That is how people are misreading verse 2 as well when explaining why when believers are zealous for spiritual gift, they were to seek the gift of prophesy in verse 1 and he began to explain why by comparing the gift of tongues by itself against the gift of prophesy as to why prophesy was better than tongues because only God understood what the tongue speaker was saying without interpretation to signify that it is not a stand alone gift that it must be interpreted by another.
Paul was not showing how great tongues was by itself for then he failed in his exhortation for believers when they are zealous for spiritual gift, to seek the gift of prophesy, but you guys seem to take verse 2 out of context as if that was Paul's message.
In the Toronto's Blessing, a fellow co worker went there testifying that they said that they do not need the Word of God any more and that all they need is the Spirit. That is pretty much what this thread is arguing for with all of those benefits when one of them; self edification, is hyped even though it is never interpreted by someone else for that tongue to be fruitful to the tongue speaker as Paul testified and instructed in explaining why prophesy is better than tongues.
He never talked about tongues not done in public. You guys are reading verse 2 as if that is what he meant, but no. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 proves that any manifestation given in the assembly was to profit the body withal; not individually where tongue speaker can say to non tongue speakers that they have no need of them.
I believe when Paul said " I ", he meant " I ". Just as he was exaggerating about things as well as speaking in tongues to prove that doing great & divine things but not having love is nothing in 1 Corinthians 13th chapter. He was not advcating that he could speak in tongues of angels.
Another issue that Paul spoke and not the Lord is written here in that same epistle;
1 Corinthians 7:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
So there is a cause to believe that Paul was speaking here in an exaggerated sense, especially when he had admiited earlier that not all speaks in tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]30 [/SUP]Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?[SUP] 31 [/SUP]But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]5[/SUP]I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
I do not see that. In verse 4 of 1 Corinthians 12th chapter, I see "carismatwn" meaning this below:
HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version
"from carizomai - charizomai 5483; a (divine) gratuity, i.e. deliverance (from danger or passion); (specially), a (spiritual) endowment, i.e. (subjectively) religious qualification, or (objectively) miraculous faculty:--(free) gift."
And what does it profit the church unless that tongue comes with interpretation. In context, Paul was not advocating tongues as a stand alone gift, otherwise it would be better than the gift of prophesy as a stand alone gift, getting all of those benefits and yet Paul says it is unfruitful to himself unless interpreted; thus not a stand alone gift for why prophesy is better as the gift to seek after when any one is zealous for spiritual gifts.
But not a stand alone gift and never was.
If he said that if someone came in and all spoke in tongues, they would be seen as mad. The same for when someone is speaking in tongues all by himself with no interpretation, and someone came in on him and would think that person mad.
Got the typo in your quote, but I disagree since I see no difference in the application of gift and manifestation as both are temporary like the gift of healing since no one is given the power to heal but a gift from the Lord at that moment of healing.
Scripture interchanges the words and so they are the same.
You guys are reasoning tongues without interpretation into scripture as if you can use it without any member of the body of Christ to interpret that tongue for you in order for that tongue to be fruitful to you personally, whereas by the grace of God, I am keeping everything in context of what Paul is trying to say.
The manifestations are given to profit the body withal; they are not for one member to say to another member that I have no need of you, but the way this thread is going about the benefit of tongues without interpretation, this thread is making Paul a liar.
1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]18 [/SUP]But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if they were all one member, where were the body?[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But now are they many members, yet but one body.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
But you do not agree that from verse 1, Paul was trying to show believers why they should seek the gift of prophesy when zealous for spiritual gift?
1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
Paul began explaining why in verse 2 starting with tongues, but you must have missed why he was comparing tongues against prophesy because you do not believe prophesy is better.
Gift and manifestation are interchangeable.
1 Corinthians 12:1[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.[SUP]6 [/SUP]And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.[SUP]7[/SUP]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
In context, tongues cannot be a stand alone gift at all nor was it ever meant to serve individually only to the tongue speaker. Even prophesy had to come with two or three where one other was to judge that edification.
Which is why it is to come with interpretation when tongues are done in the assembly. If it does not come with interpretation, that person is to be made silent because he is just a foreigner speaking out of turn as he understands what he is saying as God does; not that he is speaking to himself like a loon and speaking to God in that way too.
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]28 [/SUP]But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
If God was manifesting tongues in someone that did not come with interpretation, who is Paul to tell any one to be silent? In this incident where so many tongue speakers are misreading Paul's message here in verse 28, if it was the Holy Spirit manifesting God's gift of tongues, then Paul should have said, when no interpretation, it is prayer time for the Holy Spirit, but he did not. This dignifies that God's gift of tongues was to come with interpretation, and at no time did it ever meant it was prayer time for the Holy Spirit.
That is how people are misreading verse 2 as well when explaining why when believers are zealous for spiritual gift, they were to seek the gift of prophesy in verse 1 and he began to explain why by comparing the gift of tongues by itself against the gift of prophesy as to why prophesy was better than tongues because only God understood what the tongue speaker was saying without interpretation to signify that it is not a stand alone gift that it must be interpreted by another.
Paul was not showing how great tongues was by itself for then he failed in his exhortation for believers when they are zealous for spiritual gift, to seek the gift of prophesy, but you guys seem to take verse 2 out of context as if that was Paul's message.
In the Toronto's Blessing, a fellow co worker went there testifying that they said that they do not need the Word of God any more and that all they need is the Spirit. That is pretty much what this thread is arguing for with all of those benefits when one of them; self edification, is hyped even though it is never interpreted by someone else for that tongue to be fruitful to the tongue speaker as Paul testified and instructed in explaining why prophesy is better than tongues.
He never talked about tongues not done in public. You guys are reading verse 2 as if that is what he meant, but no. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 proves that any manifestation given in the assembly was to profit the body withal; not individually where tongue speaker can say to non tongue speakers that they have no need of them.
I believe when Paul said " I ", he meant " I ". Just as he was exaggerating about things as well as speaking in tongues to prove that doing great & divine things but not having love is nothing in 1 Corinthians 13th chapter. He was not advcating that he could speak in tongues of angels.
Another issue that Paul spoke and not the Lord is written here in that same epistle;
1 Corinthians 7:[SUP]12 [/SUP]But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
So there is a cause to believe that Paul was speaking here in an exaggerated sense, especially when he had admiited earlier that not all speaks in tongues.
1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]30 [/SUP]Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?[SUP] 31 [/SUP]But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]5[/SUP]I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
I do not see that. In verse 4 of 1 Corinthians 12th chapter, I see "carismatwn" meaning this below:
HTML Bible Index - King James Version - Strongs Concordance - Frames Version
"from carizomai - charizomai 5483; a (divine) gratuity, i.e. deliverance (from danger or passion); (specially), a (spiritual) endowment, i.e. (subjectively) religious qualification, or (objectively) miraculous faculty:--(free) gift."
And what does it profit the church unless that tongue comes with interpretation. In context, Paul was not advocating tongues as a stand alone gift, otherwise it would be better than the gift of prophesy as a stand alone gift, getting all of those benefits and yet Paul says it is unfruitful to himself unless interpreted; thus not a stand alone gift for why prophesy is better as the gift to seek after when any one is zealous for spiritual gifts.
But not a stand alone gift and never was.
If he said that if someone came in and all spoke in tongues, they would be seen as mad. The same for when someone is speaking in tongues all by himself with no interpretation, and someone came in on him and would think that person mad.
Got the typo in your quote, but I disagree since I see no difference in the application of gift and manifestation as both are temporary like the gift of healing since no one is given the power to heal but a gift from the Lord at that moment of healing.
Scripture interchanges the words and so they are the same.
You guys are reasoning tongues without interpretation into scripture as if you can use it without any member of the body of Christ to interpret that tongue for you in order for that tongue to be fruitful to you personally, whereas by the grace of God, I am keeping everything in context of what Paul is trying to say.
The manifestations are given to profit the body withal; they are not for one member to say to another member that I have no need of you, but the way this thread is going about the benefit of tongues without interpretation, this thread is making Paul a liar.
1 Corinthians 12:[SUP]18 [/SUP]But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.[SUP]19 [/SUP]And if they were all one member, where were the body?[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But now are they many members, yet but one body.[SUP] 21 [/SUP]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
U
Hebrews 2:4 teaches the God gives gifts according to His own will not according to our seeking
"Gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will." Hebrews 2:4.
1 Cor. 12:8-11 lists 9 gifts, the last being tongues and interpretation of tongues:
Tongues were spoken on 3 occasions in Acts (2:4; 10:46; 19:6), on none of these occasions are the recipients seeking, waiting or expecting to speak in tongues. At Pentecost, only the Apostles (12) spoke in tongues, but all who were saved (3000) received the Holy Spirit (2:38,39).
1 Corinthians 12:31 "Covet earnestly the best gifts"; tongues are not the best gifts, but one of the least gifts (14:1).
Spiritual gifts could be desired (14:1) but not claimed in faith as a birthright.
There is no command to seek them.
S
by default we could also state there is no command NOT to seek them
so, if God wants to bless someone with speaking in tongues we should tell Him never mind cause it is not good enough?
you know, if someone has a personal non desire to avoid speaking in tongues, I can't figure why they need to be sure everyone
1. knows all about it
2. they seek to silence those who do not agree with them
3. they will use scripture out of context and ignore what is really being said
there is no command to NOT ask and while on the subject, Paul states do not FORBID speaking in tongues, and THAT, actually IS a command
go figure
So [to conclude], my brethren, earnestly desire and set your hearts on prophesying (on being inspired to preach and teach and to interpret God’s will and purpose), and do not forbid or hinder speaking in [unknown] tongues.
I Cor 14:39
I would be curious
what gifts have you asked God for that He would give you by His Spirit?
not salvation, because that is universal to all who are saved; but rather, you know, a spiritual gift that He has decided would be one for you?
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U
The gift of tongues in the correct biblical understanding it speaking/hearing a known language for the purpose of preaching the Gospel of Christ Jesus.
It is not a private prayer language of the angels.
The letter to the Corinthians needs to be understood within the historical events happening in the church at that time, as well Paul is writing in the tone of a mild rebuke because there were ecstatic utterances were taking place during the meetings and the meetings were not orderly.
S
well that is not so
that is just the standard answer given when someone rejects the teaching that states otherwise
you don't believe in speaking in tongues, but saying it has to be interpreted or you are not supposed to pray in tongues and so on and on and on, is the way out of the predicament of doing the opposite of what the Bible teaches
thankfully, those who desire the truth will both find and experience it when they seek God
you are simply choosing what you will or will not believe
there are 2 letters to the Corinthian church, which was the church at Corinth, (really) and where did Paul say what you are saying?
NOWHERE
saying to do things decently and in order should be understood along with FORBID NOT TO SPEAK IN TONGUES
do YOU forbid speaking in tongues? do you forbid YOURSELF to speak in tongues?
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