Not By Works

[FranC]

hope somebody will read this with "patience".

Hey, JF, try using paragraphs next time. This time I'll do it for you...
Only because you're new to the thread !


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ok back to what this thread was originally about

,being saved is about humbly asking God to save your soul and accepting Jesus as your saviour,sincerely in your own words to God,

as for salvation it self,salvation still requires good works for are we to say that the idle who are saved obtain heaven seeing as that they are sluggards,nay for one must be hot or cold for God not luke warm,

and of a certainty you know whom is"truly" saved by their fruits(works)people take it too often to their heads in this world that just because you are saved that you no longer have to do anything for God or worse yet they believe that they can do sin all they want and somehow still receive heaven,

well if there be any so foolish here is a little scripture to set you straight...Jesus said,"not all who say unto me lord lord shall enter unto heaven" many people believe this to be just for the lost and sin sick nay this is for the saved as well for if you do nothing with what knowledge God has given you out of appreciation for God saving your soul then how can you enter heaven,

seeing as that if you are saved and do nothing that all that is evident is that you have not done anything for God,mere faith is not enough for if one believes that they are saved and will go to heaven,this doesn't make their statement true,we are indeed to be vigilant of Jesus's return,but if we are to sit around waiting and do nothing for God then why is there this scipture?..

."Ye men of Galilee,why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus,which is taken up from you into heaven,shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven"Acts chapter 1 verse 11,so you see though we be saved we are not to be idle or merely gazing into heaven waiting on Jesus

for when he does come he expects that "We" will have led as many souls to God as possible,being saved is not some run of the mill"guarantee" that you will enter into heaven,it is a means to start learning God's word through the holy spirit and eventually leading others to God,do not be fooled,being saved is not a free pass to sin nor to be idle,if you believe this then Satan is whom is telling you this,for since when has God ever been glad of the idle?

or when has God ever said in his word that salvation is all that is required for heaven? God is long suffering that all are to be led to repentance,if salvation is all we need then here is a bigger question,what use are we then to God? if we take what God gives us and we do not seek to add unto God then we have failed him but our pride gets us to believe we have done right for God by doing so

,being saved is not the end of your work for God it is the beginning,when you are done for God is when you take your final breathe after working righteous ly for God, plain and simple!

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[joefizz]

Hey, JF, try using paragraphs next time. This time I'll do it for you...
Only because you're new to the thread !


vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

ok back to what this thread was originally about

,being saved is about humbly asking God to save your soul and accepting Jesus as your saviour,sincerely in your own words to God,

as for salvation it self,salvation still requires good works for are we to say that the idle who are saved obtain heaven seeing as that they are sluggards,nay for one must be hot or cold for God not luke warm,

and of a certainty you know whom is"truly" saved by their fruits(works)people take it too often to their heads in this world that just because you are saved that you no longer have to do anything for God or worse yet they believe that they can do sin all they want and somehow still receive heaven,

well if there be any so foolish here is a little scripture to set you straight...Jesus said,"not all who say unto me lord lord shall enter unto heaven" many people believe this to be just for the lost and sin sick nay this is for the saved as well for if you do nothing with what knowledge God has given you out of appreciation for God saving your soul then how can you enter heaven,

seeing as that if you are saved and do nothing that all that is evident is that you have not done anything for God,mere faith is not enough for if one believes that they are saved and will go to heaven,this doesn't make their statement true,we are indeed to be vigilant of Jesus's return,but if we are to sit around waiting and do nothing for God then why is there this scipture?..

."Ye men of Galilee,why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus,which is taken up from you into heaven,shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven"Acts chapter 1 verse 11,so you see though we be saved we are not to be idle or merely gazing into heaven waiting on Jesus

for when he does come he expects that "We" will have led as many souls to God as possible,being saved is not some run of the mill"guarantee" that you will enter into heaven,it is a means to start learning God's word through the holy spirit and eventually leading others to God,do not be fooled,being saved is not a free pass to sin nor to be idle,if you believe this then Satan is whom is telling you this,for since when has God ever been glad of the idle?

or when has God ever said in his word that salvation is all that is required for heaven? God is long suffering that all are to be led to repentance,if salvation is all we need then here is a bigger question,what use are we then to God? if we take what God gives us and we do not seek to add unto God then we have failed him but our pride gets us to believe we have done right for God by doing so

,being saved is not the end of your work for God it is the beginning,when you are done for God is when you take your final breathe after working righteous ly for God, plain and simple!

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LoL new to this thread? I've posted many times here yet nothing seems to get accomplished most post so fast that they don't see my posts,not that I suppose it would matter,noone seems to be interested in "TRUTH" in this thread anyways,oh well I've done what I can through the holy spirit...

 

[Limey410v2]

Excuse me, but if you don't understand about the Kingdom, how could you unerstand how to stay in it?
Do you realize that Jesus spoke more about the Kingdome than of salvation?

Not everything is learned by reading the bible.
Some things are learned by studying theology.

Take it as you will.

You have no idea what I know or understand. Your problem as I see it, is that you think you do, based on very limited and brief interaction.

I already did take it as I will. But I thank you for your much needed permission.

 

[Ariel82]

Anyone have popcorn?

 

[FranC]

Fran

Paul learned by revelation...two ways that I can see. One when he was caught up...at least it's my belief that he was speaking of himself in that scripture, and by the gift of knowledge and wisdom..or prophetically..or hearing the Voice of God. There's four.


I seriously doubt he was writing a thesis.

Why not?

Paul speaks about himself in Galatians 1:11 all the way through to chapter 2:1:9.

Peole were normal people even back then. Paul had discussions with James and John, I bleieve (I'd have to check). He agreed that he would go to the gentiles and Peter to the Jews.

He also had revelation. Jesus could work this however He wanted to.

My point was to say that Paul had to learn what he knew, Jesus was the creator of Christianity.

Paul wrote Romans which is all the theory one has to know about Christianity. It does not explain some things.
For instance you don't find a clear explanation in the bible of the difference between justification and sanctifcation.
You don't find a clear explanation of the Trinity; in fact it's not mentioned and who knows if we would have picked up on this if it had not been for the early theologians.

Must go.

 

[FranC]

LoL new to this thread? I've posted many times here yet nothing seems to get accomplished most post so fast that they don't see my posts,not that I suppose it would matter,noone seems to be interested in "TRUTH" in this thread anyways,oh well I've done what I can through the holy spirit...

We all have the same problem!
This thread moves too fast.

SOMEBODY has to stop.
But no one does!!
Including me.

 

[mailmandan]

MMD,

It's great to know the bible.
But knowing a little bit of theology doesn't hurt one's knowledge about God.

Hebrews 11 tells what Faith is.
Theology will teach that faith is alive.
Faith is an action.

I've often used the example of the elevator and will not bore you with it again.

FAITH IS AN ACTION.
The person who has faith, MOVES and acts on that faith.

Again, faith "is" the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1) and the actions which follow are works. The person who has faith, moves and acts on that faith BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to become or remain saved. Faith results in actions appropriate to the faith, but the actions are not inherent in the faith. Faith is the root of salvation and good works which follow are the fruit.

 

[dcontroversal]

Again, faith "is" the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1) and the actions which follow are works. The person who has faith, moves and acts on that faith BECAUSE they are saved and not in order to become or remain saved. Faith results in actions appropriate to the faith, but the actions are not inherent in the faith. Faith is the root of salvation and good works which follow are the fruit.

Biblical for sure.......and I agree......

 

[Stephen63]

Right, just like I am free to say I did not ask you. What names did I call you???

You say the us and them mentality saddens your soul but you have your own breakdowns of us and them, I have seen it, so get sad all you want, defend the liars and pretenders all you want, pretend they do not do the same things over and over again and then act innocent or pretend it does not exist when their blatant lies are pointed out to them, where their exegetical errors are made clear to them, nothing changes them, they are hell bent on trying to destroying God's elect, they work for Satan, us and them, hmm, yeah, I stand with those on the side of God, there is a decided division, pick your side carefully, or pretend there are no sides, if you prefer.

Gotta reply to this one.

Mind telling me how God's elect can be destroyed at all by your doctrinal standards?

You know, once you accept Christ, it's over & done with. Just how exactly can "we" destroy what all of you claim can't be?

I'm on pins & needles waiting for this answer.

Hey Stephen, mind telling me why you are asking me a question about something I did not say? Your attitude is off, as usual. I hope you got pricked good while waiting

Would you like to tell me what you didn't say?

 

[Magenta]

Would you like to tell me what you didn't say?

Can you not read? Go ahead and show me if you can, where I said that God's elect can be destroyed. Will you say the same to Jesus because He said that the gates of Hades will not overcome the church? But it sure does try. Do you not know, see, or understand the difference?

 

[royalscot]

if it ,was a human plan or a human logic involved , it would not depend, on faith ,that there is a god logic involved , guess death has a function, and is after all. the joy of faith. yet blind eyes, cannot see, a grave yard. that s logic for you.

 

[PeterJens]

Walking in the Spirit
1. Communion with God
2. Obeying Gods commands
3. Loving from the heart
4. Seeking to serve and help
5. Focused on need and blessing
6. Wanting to save and bring people into the light
7. Walking righteously, purified, cleansed, holy


Walking in the Flesh
1. God shut out
2. Doing evil and disobeying Gods commands
3. Defending ones heart and hurting others where possible
4. Seeking selfish benefit and lifting up oneself
5. Focused on power and wealth
6. Wanting to trample on others to get more for oneself
7. Walking in sin, impurity and the passions of the heart

We are transformed by abiding in either of these two states.
We are born into the second state, but in Christ can walk in the first.
The longer we abide in the first state, the more we will become like Jesus.

Only when life dwells within us and starts its work purifying and changing us
do we know what it is to walk under Gods will.

Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching.
My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 14:23-24

Do you love Jesus? If you love Him, do you love His teaching? What in His teaching
is wrong or evil or impossible?

This is not an idle question, but asking you to question how you react to the words
and accept part of you, like part of me, lives in rebellion against God. The question is
why and is this the difference between the flesh, rebellion, and the Spirit, walking in love?

Theology is often a choice of emphasis. If the emphasis leads against love and into rebellion,
or justification of sin, it is not of the Lord. If it leads to love and walking in His ways, it is
of the Lord and should be embraced.

 

[PeterJens]

What is wrong with stealing?

The point about wealth is it does not matter. It is a means to an end. All we need is to stay
alive and serve one another.

So taking something that someone else owns and has responsibility for is harming them and
putting this thing above the responsibilities we each separately carry. Stealing destroys the
value the object has for its owner and stops them from exercising responsibility and use of the
object itself.

So a shop keeper who buys goods to sell on can no longer do this, as they do not get a
return on their efforts and have nothing to then buy more goods.

And so the cycle continues but stealing destroys the cycle. Acknowledging the cycle is how
society works and is essential for all our well being is beginning to acknowledge the part of the
whole we are.

Each command, each moral position is always about being part of a bigger whole and acknowledging
it. We are a part and share in its functioning, and within this we partake and are blessed by its
influence.

You shall not steal
Exodus 20:15

In this one command do we see the bigger picture? No. But in looking at the bigger picture we
see the value of the whole and how we as individuals are partakers in live and benefit, as well as
providers of it for others.

Breaking the commands, we become aware of our rebellion, our refusal to accept the limitations of
the system, and the whole we are part of, but to take without regard for the damage this causes
and how it hurts us as much as the bigger effects on others.

 

[FranC]

Can you not read? Go ahead and show me if you can, where I said that God's elect can be destroyed. Will you say the same to Jesus because He said that the gates of Hades will not overcome the church? But it sure does try. Do you not know, see, or understand the difference?

Your above post is to Stephen63.


He already showed you.
Read post no. 17089 again...

Here, I'll help out. THIS is what you said:

when their blatant lies are pointed out to them, where their exegetical errors are made clear to them, nothing changes them, they are hell bent on trying to destroying God's elect, they work for Satan, us and them, hmm, yeah, I stand with those on the side of God,

1. You really should stop calling people Liars. Becaused someone does not agree with YOU, does not make then a liar.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe YOU are the liar since the bible does not agree with YOU?
Can you distinguish between lying and not agreeing????

2. We need YOU to make exegetical errors known to us? I'm sure "we" all thank you for the effort, but I'm sure "we" all agree that "your" exegesis is most assurdedly incorrect.

3. We are "hell bent" on trying to destroy God's elect.

A. Nice Language. It's really becoming of a Christian person.
B. It's nice that you think YOU are part of God's elect, but those who do not agree with you are not.
Your charity is overwhelming. So you ARE a Calvinist. That explains a lot.

4. We work for satan.

Talk about slander. A word which is Always coming out of the mouth of many here.
I'm surprised the mods don't ban you for a period of time for making such statements.

5. YOU, OTOH, state that you stand on the side of God.

Why don't you start acting like it???

 

[Ariel82]

Would you like to tell me what you didn't say?

The world can't destroy a person's salvation or separate God's children from Him. Nothing can snatch us from His hand.

However, Satan seeks to destroy our lives and testimony and this is by tempting us to sin. Then enslaving us by either being unrepentant (not admiring its a sin to cause contention, lie, teach a false gospel, etc.) or feel so condemned and defeated we hide (like Adam and Eve did).

Yeah you didn't ask me, but figured some one should state the truth.

Who is "we"?

 

[Magenta]

The world can't destroy a person's salvation or separate God's children from Him. Nothing can snatch us from His hand.

However, Satan seeks to destroy our lives and testimony and this is by tempting us to sin. Then enslaving us by either being unrepentant (not admiring its a sin to cause contention, lie, teach a false gospel, etc.) or feel so condemned and defeated we hide (like Adam and Eve did).

Yeah you didn't ask me, but figured some one should state the truth.

Who is "we"?

I already answered. Are you suggesting my answer was untruthful?

 

[Ariel82]

I already answered. Are you suggesting my answer was untruthful?

I would call it incomplete.

It is true that our eternal salvation may not be affected by the mechanics of Satan, but our earthly lives and testimony can be destroyed if we do not run the race accordingly or learn to use our spiritual armor or tame our tongues.

He asked how God's elect can be destroyed.

Do you disagree with my answer?

 

[Ariel82]

These are the words of God for the People of God. Do you deny their truth?

Why do God's children not learn from God how to teach: pure, peace loving, considerate, gentle, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere?

******

James 3
6The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
*****
17But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.

 

[Magenta]

For the record, the question was addressed to me and I did answer it.

The gates of hell will not prevail against those who are called by God,
though Satan sure does try. I was accused of being unChristian as well
for saying that I hoped Stephen was pricked by the pins and needles he
claimed he was on while awaiting my answer to his convoluted twisting
of what I said, demanding answers from me and pretending my theology
is messed up simply because he fails to comprehend. His conscious should
prick him for such distortions, but will it? I dunno. Maybe it is seared.

 

[Ariel82]

General question: Who do you think "they" are?

Who is really your enemy?

I believe them to be spiritual forces of darkness that deceive BOTH sides of the debate. THEY are our real enemy, BUT I have a feeling most would disagree and would prefer a fleshly enemy, when the Bible says our enemy is SPIRITUAL in nature.

Galatians 5
13For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.