The Prosperity Theology or Prosperity Gospel

Conquer · Mar 26, 2009

You can know wheter a prophet is right as if they say is coming true. Also it must not contradict the Bible in any sense.
And currently looking to the suffering churches in the world i dont believe in that prosperity. Also the gospel brings something far greater than prosperity.
Because we human are only looking two inches away and think we have the satisfaction forever. But remember the rich man and Lazerus.
Everyone wants a blessing, but so few of you want to die to be surely born again!

imoss · Mar 26, 2009

spiritual blessings. Thats all I got to say about that.

Rosinsky · Mar 26, 2009

Baptistrw said:

Baptistrw,

The claim that the prosperity gospel is about health and wealth has always been a fabrication by those who oppose to the prosperity theology, and it clearly shows in this post by all who have posted in opposition of this view. You making a common mistake in your reasoning called "Straw man fallacy." That is to distort someone else's position in order to make it easier to criticize. It's a flaw that result from either an inability to argue against the claim or the fear of failure without distorting the view.

As I said before, the prosperity theology/gospel teaches that it is God's will for all, and yes I said all, believer to prosper. It is not God's will for any believer to be a failure and the scriptures are very clear on this throughout the entire bible.

My first post did not include my view, I posted the topic to be as objective as possible. I gave verses from people who argue for and against it with their scriptural backup. For some reason, I think that escaped you.

Baptistrw said:

I agree only that it does not mean only materially it also mean rich and satisfying spiritual life. Let's look at the context here.

John 10:6-10 - 6 Those who heard Jesus use this illustration didn’t understand what he meant, 7 so he explained it to them: “I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who came before me[a] were thieves and robbers. But the true sheep did not listen to them. 9 Yes, I am the gate. Those who come in through me will be saved. They will come and go freely and will find good pastures. 10 The thief’s purpose is to steal and kill and destroy. My purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life.

Notice here, Jesus is saying that those who enters through the gate will find good pastures and further states that His purpose is to give them a rich and satisfying life. Jesus lays His foundation for good pastures and a rich and satisfying life. He makes it clear that in order to find good pastures, you must first be saved. As a result of being saved, you will find good pastures and a satisfying life. For you to associate "rich and satisfying life" only to the spiritual is bad interpretation of the text.

Baptistrw said:

3 John 1:2 - Dear friend, I hope all is well with you and that you are as healthy in body as you are strong in spirit.

This is a bad example because of it's location... in the greeting of a letter sent to a specific person with a specific need, basing theology on the intro and closing of an epistle is horrible hermeneutics, I'm probably guessing you have no formal Bible training because that's a rookie mistake.

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Is this what it comes down to? Who has the formal bible training?

Formal bible training is good, but not all bible formal training is applicable in every instance. In other words, just because you learn a rule or principle in bible training, does not mean you should simply ignore a scripture and say "well bible training says this." What we also need to know is how to examine each scripture carefully for accurate interpretation. Did formal bible training fail to teach you how to exegete?

John's letter to Gaius was one of encouragement. John sent the letter to encourage him of what he was already doing right. He was encouraging him to remain truth to his path.

The KJV words 3 John 1:2 like this: Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

It would be wrong of John to wish something that the bible is against (even in an introductory letter). Here John is wishing that all is well (or that he prosper) and be in health. He further compare the prosperity and health with the prosperity of your soul. John seems to suggest, though not stated clearly, that as your soul prospers so should other aspects of your life.

Could it be the only reason why you bring this notion of "formal bible training" is to reject what the scripture is saying?

Baptistrw said:

Luke 6:38 - Give, and you will receive. Your gift will return to you in full—pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, running over, and poured into your lap. The amount you give will determine the amount you get back.”

It is a fixed principle in life that we reap according to our sowing, that our actions react upon us, that the same measure we use to others is measured back to us. If we sow material things we reap spiritual treasures of inestimable value. It is also true that what we keep we lose, and what we give we have.

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I agree with your first sentence that "it is a fixed principle in life that we reap according to our sowing, that our actions react upon us, that the same measure we use to others is measured back to us." I disagree partly what your second notion. "If we sow material things we reap spiritual treasures." Here, you are wording your text to fit a personal belief. The outcome of your sowing is both spiritual and material. In fact, the scripture here is more geared toward material.

Baptistrw said:

So as you can see none of those passages teach the prosperity gospel. Prosperity does not mean financially.

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And as you can see, they actually do. The notion that prosperity means = financial is one that opponents of this view fabricate to discredit the truth meaning of prosperity. Finance is a part of prosperity but not prosperity itself.

BLC · Mar 26, 2009

imoss said:

That is a beautiful and simple response from (Eph 1:3). Can you tell us what you think those spiritual blessing are, that God has blessed us with in Christ? We should desire to know what they are, especially when God has done the blessing, don't you think? These spiritual blessings, that we have in Christ, are those that we use to build up one another. They are part of our faith and our inheritance, with the saints, that we have in Christ and they will never pass away. These spiritual blessings are given that we might have fellowship with one another in Christ. Some (86) times in the book of Ephesians, the terms used to refer to the believer's position of being in Christ are used. There must be some significance to that.

roaringkitten · Mar 26, 2009

Maybe this should be labeled "prosperity theology".........Instead of "prosperity gospel"........because like I posted before, there is only ONE gospel that will save mankind.....And its a gospel that saves man from the everlasting destruction of the lake of fire as Jesus warned about hell NUMEROUS times in His ministry....Even then, I find no evidence that "prosperity theology" is true......Even if it were called just a "theology".....

BLC · Mar 26, 2009

BLC said:

Baptistrw,

If you are going to be a good communicator of the whole counsel of God, you need to explain the following passage of scripture as it relates to this subject. Remember a false balance is an abomination unto the LORD (Prov 11:1, 20:23). In other words, God doesn't like it, but a just weight is to His delight.

Mark 10:26-30 'And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee.

And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life'.
You can't deny that Jesus is talking about the gospel and discipleship in this passage, as He answers two questions. Please take notice of His answers. He also deals with two different times, 'now in this time' and 'in the world to come eternal life'. Be honest with what this is saying and from whose lips it is being spoken from. Read this, study it, compare it with other scriptures, talk with God about it and come to your own conclusions and convictions. Don't forget the part of this passage about 'recieving a hundredfold'. Again, I emphasize that Jesus Christ is speaking of the gospel and the discipleship of that gospel.

roaringkitten,

I need to know what you think of this post and your response to the passage of scripture related to.

roaringkitten · Mar 26, 2009

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mark 10:25

I believe your passage above talks about this verse, and it should have been included to clarify the passage.....It is very hard for rich men/well off people to come to Christ because the pride of life is too difficult for them to realize they need a Savior...

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." 1 John 2:15-17

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24

MahogonySnail · Mar 26, 2009

Although compared to an average person in third world countries, even a homeless person on our streets in a Western country is rich by comparison. So where do we draw the line as to who is rich and who is poor? The answer is, greed. That is all God is concerned about, whether the trust is put in riches or not, whether they live for money or live for God. A homeless person without any money can be just as prideful and greedy as a rich man with millions of dollars.

MahogonySnail · Mar 26, 2009

The old testament is littered with verses saying how God will bless His people with worldly riches, but with a warning, that things will go well as long as we remember it is God who gives us those things. It is God who gives us the power and ability to get rich. I don't believe things changed on this issue between the old testament and the new. What becomes clear when reading the new testament is that it is the love of mammon and the love of money, which is the problem. This teaching that "it is Christian to be poor" is just as dangerous as a "it is Christian to be rich" idea. Because if all Christians are poor, how are they going to support overseas missions?

KingdomGeneration · Mar 26, 2009

Sowing and reaping are clearly biblical principles that are clearly tied to one another. The concept is pretty easy to understand. If you sow strife, you can expect to reap strife in return. If you sow friendship, then you can expect a harvest of friends. The same could be said for love, hate, respect or whatever else you would like to include. The concept sowing of reaping is a basic fact of life. I believe this why scripture reads "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". To deny this is to deny scripture. However, while I do embrace these principles as they pertain to everyday living, I do not endorse prosperity preaching whatsoever.

Scripture also states in Matthew that if we "first seek ye the kingdom" then God will take care of our every need. I feel that if you and your church is truly walking in obedience and the will of the Lord (everyone paying tithes for starters), there would be no need to ask others for money, hold bake sales, raffles (which is gambling) or any other attempt to raise funds.

BLC · Mar 26, 2009

roaringkitten said:

roaringkitten,

Come on, you know that Jesus Christ is addressing the disciples here (Peter asked one of the questions). You can't use (v/25) to qualify or clarify the passage. Christ is talking about salvation, the gospel and discipleshipl and you know it. You can't fit this passage into your concept of what you believe about prosperity and the gospel. You have rationalized this passage right out of the scriptures. You can't break up the scriptures (John 10:35), privately interpreted, added to or taken from. You have to include this passage in your understanding of what Christ is addressing or you are not being balanced or honest. I am not saying that God wants to prosper every believer with the prosperity package that many preach, but you have to be balanced and submit to the scriptures even if you are wrong.

roaringkitten · Mar 26, 2009

BLC, God prospers some for His Kingdom(material wealth) and some are not......My Scripture reference was not intended to willingly defraud Jesus's words which you insinuate.....It was to help clarify the passages you wrote.....On another note, what is the gospel to you? Do you agree or disagree that God called us to preach the gospel that Rosk put up, or the gospel which calls sinners to repentance? This argument is not needed, as I know that there is ONLY one gospel that is true and no variant form of it is acceptable....For someone to preach a gospel of prosperity to the lost, is already condemned by the Word....

BLC · Mar 26, 2009

roaringkitten said:

roaringkitten,

Those that teach prosperity within the context of the gospel, preach the same salvation that you and I believe, the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. They teach salvation by grace and through faith, without works. They love God and the lost and are not ashamed of the gospel of Chrsit. They also believe that God wants to prosper all believers in everyway, including financially. Now if you have someone preaching a gospel, without the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, then that would be another gospel. If they add the name of Christ to it to get people to respond, then that would be another Christ. If they added that the Spirit was leading them in that kind of gospel, it would be another Spirit.

If they want to preach prosperity and ask people for money and people give it, that is between them and God. Personally, my conviction is that believers are called to a local church, and they should give their tithes and offerings for the work of that ministry. God may lead certain ones to give outside their local church on occasions, but that is between them and God. I know that certain networks have lots of preachers that hammer the prosperity message all the time and do not have a good balance. It has been ingrained into their thinking and they have been indoctrinated with it. There is not much you can do about it, so why not build them up in Christ and if there are those that are not of Christ, He will reveal that.

MahogonySnail · Mar 26, 2009

I have a slightly different take on giving.

I believe giving should be done to those in most demand/need first.

The reality is something like only 2% of the western church's resources are devoted to overseas missions where the need is greatest, billions still yet to hear the gospel. Sadly, the other 98% is spent on itself. The reason God blesses with money is to bless others that don't have it. That was also the purpose of blessing Israel, so Israel could bless the other nations. Part of the problem is that churches teach to give to themselves first and foremost. But rarely do I see much effective evangelism at all from these churches. If they did, then it might be justified. I believe giving to this cause of evangelism should be number one priority like they did in the early church, and then give to the local church second which in our society generally has more than enough money.

Obviously, without the prosperity of western christians, there would be no money to give to aid the cause of the missions overseas. As long as it is used for that purpose. Wasting it in million dollar buildings that are only used once a week or so on Sunday's is in my mind a waste of money.

phil36 · Mar 27, 2009

Rosinsky,

Going back to one of your origanal statements/Questions?

""So what is going on here? Does the bible contradict itself, or does it teach or does not teach the prosperity gospel?""

What is your answer? I have noticed that you give great bold statements, yet, you do not answer anything fully. An example of which ' The Gospel = Good news' you are correct in saying this, however, very misleading as with most of your statements, you make 'good news' sound as if it fits in with your health and wealth theology,and you are being very coy as to what parts of the health and wealth gospel you would like to show.

I am at work at present, i think i will have a test with my colleagues. I will tell them come to Jesus, as your all your illness's will be cured, your finances will sky-rocket, you will be prosperous beyond belief, all you have to do to get these things is believe in Jesus! now I am sure 90% of my colleagues will want to sign up straight away... but in all reality would i be misleading them? Is this really the good news, that you would have us believe? would they be believing in Jesus or what gifts that their fallen human desires believe Jesus could give them.

what do you say to the Christian who has been poor all their lives, yet say they have the greatest treasure in the cosmos? (Jesus is the treasure). what about christians who are riddled with cancer are they living in the promise, have they really got hope and assurance??? maybe they are ill because they havent believed and God does not 'prosper' those who don't believe is that your good news??

I think the health and wealth gospel has got carried away with itself, God certainly does provide as all christian can attest. but he provides what we need, not what we want!

The health and wealth gospel or if i can even call it good news, feeds our natural fallen desires for more more more more and more, we are objects of Gods wrath .... sinners (Romans 1) we need to be born again to be covered in Christs blood to be reconciled with God and live a life that glorifies him. Not receiving Jesus to recieve gifts!

Another point would be to ask honest questions Rosinsky and not Loaded questions, asking loaded questions only starts arguments.

""But don't worry i will ease your concience for you, I need a new Gucci suit and God will give me it, as i want it this week and i need a new House im bored with the one God has provided for me, so for your gift of any amount you will be blessed. bearing in mind the more you give the more you will get so give beyond your means and give me your money and you will prosper!!! ????????????"" now isn't that 'GOOD NEWS'

the above statement is in jest only.

yours

phil

roaringkitten · Mar 27, 2009

“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” Galatians 1:6-9

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures"
1 Corinthians 15:1-4

We are the sinners, Jesus is the Savior! That is the gospel! All other gospels are perversions of the true gospel. Jesus warned about the LAKE OF FIRE numerous times in his ministry. He WARNED them that it would be the most terrible place than man could ever be!(ie: Matthew 18:9) We are vile and deserve everlasting torment in the lake of fire for offended an all just God! The gospel deals with the fact that God provided a way for sinners to escape the fires of hell. The gospel declares that by believing in Christ as our Savior(trusting Him) we can be saved! It's by His precious blood we are saved!

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;" Ephesians 1:7

So in essence, this thread is speaking about another gospel(ie: prosperity gospel) as evidenced by these Scriptures....A gospel that has NO power whatsoever in saving souls...This thread is a waste of space IMO. And yes I am greatly offended, because the precious gospel is the key to a sinner coming to Christ, and if they believe another gospel, they are headed to the lake of fire for ETERNITY!

If you want to teach "prosperity theology" then by all means teach it to your hearts content. But get rid of "prosperity gospel" because it is a false gospel found nowhere in the Word of God. There is much mention in Scripture of the "gospel of Jesus Christ" but not ONE on the "gospel of prosperity".

Leading people to a false gospel will cost them their eternity:

"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9

Rosinsky · Mar 27, 2009

phil36 said:

Thank you Phil for making me realize that I have not answered the question that asked from the original post. Before I do, let me just clarify a few things. First, it seems that you misunderstood my use of good news. I was simply defining what the word "gospel" in of itself mean in response to roaringkitten's refusal to participate in the topic because of the word "gospel." In no way was I creating a bridge or some sort. I was merely pointing out that she should not simply ignore the topic because of the word gospel. Second, in no way was I making it sound to fit "in with your health and wealth theology." Which again, is a misconception of what I have been saying. I have said it over and over again that the prosperity theology is not about wealth and health.

Having that said, I do not believe the bible has a contradiction. I do not believe that the verses posted in the first post contradict each other. Rather, they explain truths about a believer's life.

As for the theology of prosperity, I believe that the bible does teach a prosperity for each believer. This prosperity is not one of becoming rich financially, but one of becoming prosperous in all that you do in life as a believer. It is to be prosperous in spirit, knowledge, love, patience, finance, health, relationship, etc... my belief is grounded in many scriptural text, such as:

Psalms 1:1-3 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Joshua 1:8 - This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

2 Corinthians 8:9 - For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

Jeremiah 17:8-9 - Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. 8For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit.

My belief is grounded from scriptures alone. Now if the scriptures does teach what I have been stating, why do you (as well as others) object?

phil36 said:

Phil, this is a very common mistake that a lot of people make. That is they interpret the bible in light of what's happening in the world. In order words, they say since this is what the really is then these scriptures cannot be saying what they say.Therefore, making what you see affect how you approach the bible. I am sorry, but I cannot do that. I interpret the bible in light of what it says and in doing that, I believe it will affect the world.

If the bible says that the righteous "shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper," but yet there are many faithful Christians who are poor, we should seek to find out why is it what the Bible says is not happening rather than dismissing what the bible says shall happen.

I cannot find one single scripture from the bible that would give the notion that it is the will of God for a believer to be poor. As seen above, there are many that prove otherwise.

erika83 · Mar 27, 2009

phil36 said:

Rosinsky,

Going back to one of your origanal statements/Questions?

""So what is going on here? Does the bible contradict itself, or does it teach or does not teach the prosperity gospel?""

What is your answer? I have noticed that you give great bold statements, yet, you do not answer anything fully. An example of which ' The Gospel = Good news' you are correct in saying this, however, very misleading as with most of your statements, you make 'good news' sound as if it fits in with your health and wealth theology,and you are being very coy as to what parts of the health and wealth gospel you would like to show.

I am at work at present, i think i will have a test with my colleagues. I will tell them come to Jesus, as your all your illness's will be cured, your finances will sky-rocket, you will be prosperous beyond belief, all you have to do to get these things is believe in Jesus! now I am sure 90% of my colleagues will want to sign up straight away... but in all reality would i be misleading them? Is this really the good news, that you would have us believe? would they be believing in Jesus or what gifts that their fallen human desires believe Jesus could give them.

what do you say to the Christian who has been poor all their lives, yet say they have the greatest treasure in the cosmos? (Jesus is the treasure). what about christians who are riddled with cancer are they living in the promise, have they really got hope and assurance??? maybe they are ill because they havent believed and God does not 'prosper' those who don't believe is that your good news??

I think the health and wealth gospel has got carried away with itself, God certainly does provide as all christian can attest. but he provides what we need, not what we want!

The health and wealth gospel or if i can even call it good news, feeds our natural fallen desires for more more more more and more, we are objects of Gods wrath .... sinners (Romans 1) we need to be born again to be covered in Christs blood to be reconciled with God and live a life that glorifies him. Not receiving Jesus to recieve gifts!

Another point would be to ask honest questions Rosinsky and not Loaded questions, asking loaded questions only starts arguments.

""But don't worry i will ease your concience for you, I need a new Gucci suit and God will give me it, as i want it this week and i need a new House im bored with the one God has provided for me, so for your gift of any amount you will be blessed. bearing in mind the more you give the more you will get so give beyond your means and give me your money and you will prosper!!! ????????????"" now isn't that 'GOOD NEWS'

the above statement is in jest only.

yours

phil

I couldn't agree more, the prosperity theory is attracting people like a magnet but very few will really have a relationship with God and be truly born again. What we were promised by Jesus are spiritual blessings and not material blessings. Of course it's not bad to have material blessings too, but those having it doesn't mean they are closer to God or better christians than the poor ones.

James 2:5 “Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him?”

Rosinsky · Mar 27, 2009

roaringkitten said:

Roaringkitten,

Your problem here really is not with the word gospel but with the topic itself. Why don't you stop hiding behind the word "gospel" and approach the topic?

I have asked you this question and you have not responded.

--------------------------
Roarinkitten,

These scriptures state what will happen to some (not all) christians, not his will. These scriptures have nothing to do with the prosperity theology (just trying to be safe with you

)

Now this is what the word of God has to say in regards to prosperity:

Psalms 1:1-3

1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Do you reject this biblical passage?

phil36 · Mar 27, 2009

Hi,

Sorry this is very short, im just finnished a night shift and i am off to bed lol.

Rosinsky thanks for your reply. However you still havent answered anything to do with prosperity gospel you have just rehashed the same 2 or 3 scriptures, and I do agree God wantts us to prosper, however not to the degree of the wealth and health, prosperity preachers/teachers i have seen, and i have seen alot (mainly americans im sad to say). Finance , health, more finance and health, ermm more finance and health, oh lets have small time of reflection of Jesus - MMm right more finance and health... Do you know that most of these flase preachers don't believe in the fall? why would that be?? maybe something to do with Health??? what about the fallicy of 'the camels Gate' that is spread by these false gospel preachers (they use this to explain Jesus talking about it 'being easier for a rich man to go to heaven than a camel to go through an eye of a needle. there are many more, this is what i mean by your theology, what exactly is it you believe, you still have been very coy in revealing what you deep down believe.

so was Jesus financially well off? what about most of the prophets? what about John the Baptist i really feel sorry for him he had nothing except a leather belt, a bit of camel hair flung round him, and an ole pair of sandals.. what a sinner he was, and not to have wealth! he really was a wretch he obviously was'nt in right standing with God... there must have been something wrong with his spiritual life.

Then we have the Apostle paul obviously another man who was not close to God he was poor and worked hard for he got, what a terrible wretch he must have been obviously not close to God, and he had an affliction.. so Paul must have been a great pretender.. no money and illness, wow he must have been in a spiritual depression, God certainly wasn't blessing him?????

Well as I say rosinsky, what do you actually believe? you have rehashed that you believe God will prosper his Children. and i have said before God gives us what he Knows we need and not what our fleshly desire demand, he seems to me you are more interested in what Gifts you can get next from God rather than how you can Glorify His Majestic name.

Humbly yours

Phil

P.s As you use Psalm 1 alot i will give you a reply on that tonight.

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