The Rapture

[heartofdavid]

Maybe the dispensational baggage is called Bible teaching and believing the Word of God.
Just because people like John Hagee make a mockery of dispensationalists don't mean that the doctrine is wrong! That's like saying Mormons believe in Jesus, therefore we shouldn't.

Yes,and several things more. I posted earlier where the branch cut off was,or will be , grafted back in. plus the 144k are chosen/taken out of 12 earthly tribes. (((TRIBES...EARTHLY TRIBES)))

I now see where the replacement theology gets it's energy. It is indeed the historicists prism.

Your end times doctrine effects and shapes your panoramic view and concept of the bible.

That is how it is. The preterist view,removes the last chapter of rev,and the throne of David restored,the prophecies at the last supper,and the restoration and gathering of the Jew,which is preceded by Jacob's trouble.

 

[J7]

Yes,and several things more. I posted earlier where the branch cut off was,or will be , grafted back in. plus the 144k are chosen/taken out of 12 earthly tribes. (((TRIBES...EARTHLY TRIBES)))

I now see where the replacement theology gets it's energy. It is indeed the historicists prism.

Your end times doctrine effects and shapes your panoramic view and concept of the bible.

That is how it is. The preterist view,removes the last chapter of rev,and the throne of David restored,the prophecies at the last supper,and the restoration and gathering of the Jew,which is preceded by Jacob's trouble.

The 144,000 who are sealed were people who accepted God during Christ's Ministry.

The reunification of Ephraim and Judah took place then.

God clearly fulfilled some kind of promise by having this happen.

The Church is Israel though.

It's like me taking a picture of you Popeye as a 10 year old with your mother, and then as a 30 year old with your mother.

"Look, Popeye's Mum has replaced her son with another son"

"No, it is the same son, just he has now grown up"

 

[KJV1611]

Nope, its a literal temple. When you see Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet.
Also think about it like this: Jesus was a Jew, therefore the AntiChrist should be a Jew as well to fool everyone.

Daniel 11:29-31 KJV
At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
Who will return at the appointed time?

[30] For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Who will have indignation against the holy covenant? Which covenant?

[31] And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice , and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Arms shall stand on who's part?

 

[Bladerunner]

Nice. Jesus equates the Mountain to the Fig Tree.

So Jerusalem is the Fig Tree.

NO!....The Nation of Israel is the Fig tree. The Fig tree is a NT term used by Jesus himself.

 

[Bladerunner]

I think I am encountering replacement theology.

NO...you are encountering worse than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Bladerunner]

Rom 11;17 [FONT=&]And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;[/FONT][FONT=&]18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[/FONT]
[FONT=&]21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

See that? They are covenant. You have to factor in the fact that they,the jews,whether you like it or not are family and God is not through with them.

enter jacob's trouble (the great tribulation)



[/FONT]

I see a lot of people trying to use the Olive tree as the Nation of Israel and it is....Only they quit before they are really through.... The Olive tree pertains to the RELiGION of Nation of Israel. No go back and read that into the verses and they will make better sense.

 

[KJV1611]

Daniel 11:29-31 KJV
At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
Who will return at the appointed time?

[30] For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Who will have indignation against the holy covenant? Which covenant?

[31] And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice , and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Arms shall stand on who's part?

These questions are open to all. I'm not real clear on the dispie story line but doesn't "The Anitchrist" place the abomination that makes desolate?

Is it "The Antichirst" that does it or is it arms standing on his part? Daniel says "arms on HIS part" place the abomination that makes desolate.

The question I'm most interested in getting an answer to is when did/does "The Antichrist" come the FIRST TIME... "At the time appointed he shall return".

 

[J7]

If anyone can correct or add to this, please do. I think understanding this chapter is key to understanding the 2 witnesses in Revelation.

The Hebrew here is:

Shenayim Yitshar ben

which means "the twelve sons of oil".

So obviously the two Olive Trees are Israel, one being tame Israel, Judah, and the other wild Israel, the Northern kingdom in dispersion.

This is exactly what Romans 11 also tells us.

 

[J7]

These verses are about Antiochus Epiphanes - the madman.


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Maccabees+1&version=GNT

 

[VCO]

Alright this concludes my research into preterism, here is what I learned: Nothing means what it says.

Thats about it folks have a good night!

Mind blowing isn't it, LOL. But a total fulfillment of Prophecy:

2 Timothy 4:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will turn away from hearing the truth and will turn aside to myths.


WE ARE THERE!

 

[KJV1611]

The Hebrew here is:

Shenayim Yitshar ben

which means "the twelve sons of oil".

So obviously the two Olive Trees are Israel, one being tame Israel, Judah, and the other wild Israel, the Northern kingdom in dispersion.

This is exactly what Romans 11 also tells us.

The bible calls the Jews "natural" branches. The gentiles are the wild branches.

Romans 11:21 KJV
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

 

[J7]

The bible calls the Jews "natural" branches. The gentiles are the wild branches.

Romans 11:21 KJV
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 9: 21 [FONT=&quot]Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[/FONT]

 

[VCO]

I see a lot of people trying to use the Olive tree as the Nation of Israel and it is....Only they quit before they are really through.... The Olive tree pertains to the RELiGION of Nation of Israel. No go back and read that into the verses and they will make better sense.

NO, THE TREE WE ARE GRAFTED INTO IS MESSIAH.



John 15:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


Yes grapes frequently have other branches grafted in. But ALL the branches of English Walnuts are ALWAYS grafted into a Black Walnut trunk and roots; becuase the root system of the Black Walnut tree reaches DEAPER for water, and is MUCH MORE RESISTANT to bugs and diseases.

 

[VCO]

NO, THE TREE WE ARE GRAFTED INTO IS MESSIAH.



John 15:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


Yes grapes frequently have other branches grafted in. But ALL the branches of English Walnuts are ALWAYS grafted into a Black Walnut trunk and roots; becuase the root system of the Black Walnut tree reaches DEAPER for water, and is MUCH MORE RESISTANT to bugs and diseases.

NOW what is the source of LIFE for the Branches, Israel or JESUS CHRIST OUR MESSIAH.

 

[Issachar92]

PlainWord ma boi, out here quoting the Talmud and Josephus again, have you read what the Talmud says about Jesus? It aint the most trustworthy source out there, it was written hundreds of years after the destruction of the temple in your favorite year 70A.D.

So lemme ask you a question, is the regathering of Israel today a fulfillment of prophecy and does it have something to do with the end times? Or is every single one of the regathering passages in the Bible talking about the regathering after the babylonian captivity?

I dunno man, I think the fact that WE HERE, Israel is BACK don't look too good for the amillennial theory. I dunno if yall just playing games or lack the will or ability to harmonize the Bible. It ain't that difficult, and I keep hearing about the 1000 years being only mentioned once in Revelation 20 well the New Covenant is only mentioned once in the new testament, quotes Jeremiah, lots of important doctrines are only mentioned once.

 

[VCO]

It comes from here:

Genesis 3:7 KJV
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

And you are in a bad habit of Limiting the Power of GOD, because HE AND HIS POWER DO NOT FIT INTO YOUR FINITE MIND.


You Probably deny this literally happened too? :

Numbers 22:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.


You probably EVEN DENY the POWER of a Six Day CREATION, and think God used Evolution to CREATE?

Do you also DENY the GENESUS FLOOD?


2 Timothy 3:5 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] holding to the form of godliness but denying its power.
Avoid these people!

 

[VCO]

Interesting fact, "fig tree" is found in the KJV exactly 33 times. Jesus died at 33, a third of the stars that fell is 33%.

I like numbers in the bible, they tell a story also.

Oh, gee! You are into the False Doctrine of Numerology too.

 

[Issachar92]

I aint never seen donkey talk, therefore it can't happen, let me spiritualize it. The donkey refers to the tribe of Issachar which is the prophecy wing of the church, and it speaks on what the church should do like it says in the bible Issachar knew the times and what Israel ought to do.

You're welcome amills, I just spiritualized it for ya.

All jokes aside, I'm afraid of this type of spiritualizing when its not needed, the reason being is that as I showed above, you can come up with all types of interpretations that seem to make sense, but are actually non-sense and twisting them Scriptures.

Ima tell yall a Bible reading guide, here is the 101 course:

1. THUS SAITH THE LORD! - The Lord means what He says and says what He means.

2. Cross reference Scripture.

3. Know who is spoken to, and who is talking.

4. Know when things are spoken. This is where a lot of folks get tripped up, they take doctrine from the Old Testament, written to the Israelites of that day, not to the church.

5. If the literal sense makes sense, don't seek other sense. If its a symbolic, its usually very plain from the context and often its even explained.

These tips will get you far. Don't fall for the trap of the enemy saying you can't understand this and that or that you needa be some spiritual guru to know the hidden meanings of each verse.

 

[VCO]

Your slander of people really SICKENS me!

John 1:12-13 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

1 John 1:8-10 (RSV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him,


John 14:6 (RSV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life;
no one comes to the Father, but by me.


It is the ONLY way I know.

 

[PlainWord]

PlainWord ma boi, out here quoting the Talmud and Josephus again, have you read what the Talmud says about Jesus? It aint the most trustworthy source out there, it was written hundreds of years after the destruction of the temple in your favorite year 70A.D.

So lemme ask you a question, is the regathering of Israel today a fulfillment of prophecy and does it have something to do with the end times? Or is every single one of the regathering passages in the Bible talking about the regathering after the babylonian captivity?

I dunno man, I think the fact that WE HERE, Israel is BACK don't look too good for the amillennial theory. I dunno if yall just playing games or lack the will or ability to harmonize the Bible. It ain't that difficult, and I keep hearing about the 1000 years being only mentioned once in Revelation 20 well the New Covenant is only mentioned once in the new testament, quotes Jeremiah, lots of important doctrines are only mentioned once.

The Bible is not the only "history" book. When determining if 2,500 +/- years of prophesies have been fulfilled or not, one most study all reasonable sources. The Bible gives very few dates, especially naming years, so one most look at events from the historic record and compare with descriptions within prophesy to see if there is a sufficient match. It is not always possible to match 100% a Biblical prediction with an historical event if the writer of the event did not include a specific detail. But when you have a prophesy that lists 10 things and 9 are clearly found in the historical record, that is enough to take pause and really consider if we had a fulfillment.

You ignore everything about the destruction of Jerusalem as if it had absolutely zero mention in the Bible. The Bible is mostly about the history of the Jewish nation from start to finish with important events and characters throughout. Now don't you think some significant time would be spent on the big event that saw Israel destroyed and scattered for two millennia? Don't you think that would be worth at least an "honorable mention?"

Apparently not because you want to place everything into the future adding 2,000 year gaps all over the place. You allegorize Jesus telling the disciples that everything He just mentioned would happen to that (their) generation into a hundreds of generations into the future. Christ clearly said that some standing there would still be alive when He returns. You allegorize this away too. Christ said He was coming quickly, but in your mind quickly could be many centuries from then.

In all the prophesy about these "future" wars where horses and swords are mentioned, you and/or others allegorize them into planes, tanks and missiles. None of these prophesies discuss anything in our modern times like sky scrapers, planes, rockets, computers, etc. Instead first century weapons are discussed giving further credence to my position.

As to your question, I have not conclusively found the fulfillment of Eze 38-39 yet. At this time I am a partial preterist. The things that I spiritualize are things we are told are spiritual like the Kingdom and the Temple. Neither are visible to us but they are both very real. You must also be very careful with terms like "death" and "life" and their related words as those terms are not always describing the physical state.