Why do we have to suffer?

Crustyone · Jul 4, 2017

These conclusions are not definite, as most things in the bible are able to be seen in multiple ways and I am sure my way of looking at this is just one of those ways. Here goes.

I suspect that most long term suffering in those of us who have been around a while are punishment for sins committed in our youth. (Job 13:26 [FONT=&quot]For you write down bitter things against me [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and make me reap the sins of my youth.) We reap what we sow. Back then a lot of us didn't care or believe in Godly punishment, so we did a lot of things wrong requiring a lot of punishment.

The short term punishments, it seems, are for the sins we commit now. Lack of prayer, unkind words, lustful thoughts, uncaring attitudes, etc. are sins our Father, God, will punish us for. (Hebrews 12:5-8 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”[a][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.) We should rejoice in both the former and this punishment, because we are told that in receiving it we are assured that we are His children.

The last punishment is the worst that we hear about. I can only think that this is only for the ones that will be strong enough to endure it, because it is a test punishment, like Jesus endured, to allow us greater rewards in heaven. I don't expect to have to endure anything like this as I am afraid that I am too weak to endure something like that without falling away, but I would hope I wouldn't.

The punishments to the unsaved, I think are completely in control of Satan as God does not protect them. They can get the best of treatment or the worst of treatment at Satan's whim. He will treat some well to make others think that an ungodly life is a good life. He will treat others that seem good outwardly very badly to make unbelievers think that God is unfair and uncaring. In the instance of uncaring I suspect that they may be right. God knows the future of all of us and those who won't turn from Satan to Him he has no use for and lets Satan do as he will with them.

This just seems to me to be the way God and Satan are working things out and I am sure many of you have your own ideas of how the system works, but this may give you a different perspective of our suffering.[/FONT]

TemporaryCircumstances · Jul 4, 2017

Crustyone said:

These conclusions are not definite, as most things in the bible are able to be seen in multiple ways and I am sure my way of looking at this is just one of those ways. Here goes.

I suspect that most long term suffering in those of us who have been around a while are punishment for sins committed in our youth. (Job 13:26 For you write down bitter things against me and make me reap the sins of my youth.) We reap what we sow. Back then a lot of us didn't care or believe in Godly punishment, so we did a lot of things wrong requiring a lot of punishment.

The short term punishments, it seems, are for the sins we commit now. Lack of prayer, unkind words, lustful thoughts, uncaring attitudes, etc. are sins our Father, God, will punish us for. (Hebrews 12:5-8 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”[a]

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.) We should rejoice in both the former and this punishment, because we are told that in receiving it we are assured that we are His children.

The last punishment is the worst that we hear about. I can only think that this is only for the ones that will be strong enough to endure it, because it is a test punishment, like Jesus endured, to allow us greater rewards in heaven. I don't expect to have to endure anything like this as I am afraid that I am too weak to endure something like that without falling away, but I would hope I wouldn't.

The punishments to the unsaved, I think are completely in control of Satan as God does not protect them. They can get the best of treatment or the worst of treatment at Satan's whim. He will treat some well to make others think that an ungodly life is a good life. He will treat others that seem good outwardly very badly to make unbelievers think that God is unfair and uncaring. In the instance of uncaring I suspect that they may be right. God knows the future of all of us and those who won't turn from Satan to Him he has no use for and lets Satan do as he will with them.

This just seems to me to be the way God and Satan are working things out and I am sure many of you have your own ideas of how the system works, but this may give you a different perspective of our suffering.

Alright,
I am curious as to why we need punished if Jesus died for our sins and we ask for forgiveness?
Punishment coming as redemption and cleanse for sin is what is in the Jewish fath.

resurrection33 · Jul 4, 2017

Crustyone said:

These conclusions are not definite, as most things in the bible are able to be seen in multiple ways and I am sure my way of looking at this is just one of those ways. Here goes.

I suspect that most long term suffering in those of us who have been around a while are punishment for sins committed in our youth. (Job 13:26 For you write down bitter things against me and make me reap the sins of my youth.) We reap what we sow. Back then a lot of us didn't care or believe in Godly punishment, so we did a lot of things wrong requiring a lot of punishment.

The short term punishments, it seems, are for the sins we commit now. Lack of prayer, unkind words, lustful thoughts, uncaring attitudes, etc. are sins our Father, God, will punish us for. (Hebrews 12:5-8 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”[a]

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.) We should rejoice in both the former and this punishment, because we are told that in receiving it we are assured that we are His children.

The last punishment is the worst that we hear about. I can only think that this is only for the ones that will be strong enough to endure it, because it is a test punishment, like Jesus endured, to allow us greater rewards in heaven. I don't expect to have to endure anything like this as I am afraid that I am too weak to endure something like that without falling away, but I would hope I wouldn't.

The punishments to the unsaved, I think are completely in control of Satan as God does not protect them. They can get the best of treatment or the worst of treatment at Satan's whim. He will treat some well to make others think that an ungodly life is a good life. He will treat others that seem good outwardly very badly to make unbelievers think that God is unfair and uncaring. In the instance of uncaring I suspect that they may be right. God knows the future of all of us and those who won't turn from Satan to Him he has no use for and lets Satan do as he will with them.

This just seems to me to be the way God and Satan are working things out and I am sure many of you have your own ideas of how the system works, but this may give you a different perspective of our suffering.

I believe we suffer because the Lord allows us to experience the consequences of our sin. For example if someone robs a bank, they'll probably go to prison. We learn from our suffering to avoid bad behavior.

Yeraza_Bats · Jul 4, 2017

This is a time of testing, as Jesus said, the weeds and the wheat and all that.

In the story of Job, we see that many harsh things were allowed to fall on Job in order to see if he would remain faithful to the Lord.

Many of the terrible things that happen here are due to our own choices. And that is being allowed for the sake of seeing who will choose to do what is right and follow Him, or who will turn and follow their own desires and do what they want.

As for things we cant control, such as natural disasters and diseases, we are told that man has been ordained to die once, and then we are judged.

Jesus never promised that if we came to Him, wed live an awesome life before we died. That is not what this life is about. Many of the people that served God throughout history have dealt with difficult trials. What He promised is salvation from the punishment we have placed upon ourselves for our sins.
Those who endure to the end are saved. (Matthew 24:13)

Issachar92 · Jul 4, 2017

TemporaryCircumstances said:

Plot twist: Christianity is a Jewish faith. Judaism aint!

jb · Jul 4, 2017

Why do we have to suffer?

Rom 5v1-5, James 1v2-4,12 with Heb 2v9-18

Even the Lord Jesus was perfected (also note, He was always sinless) during His earthly life time through the things which He suffered!

Zen · Jul 4, 2017

Issachar92 said:

Christianity is not Jewish. Your country's flag means nothing except idolatry.

Depleted · Jul 4, 2017

Crustyone said:

So, I became disabled with chronic pain because of what I did as a kid? Okay, so here are the two chief sins I did as a kid:
-- Mom told me I couldn't go to Bell Lake until I could swim. I figured if I fell in, I could just stand up and walk out again, so I thought that was dumb and went anyway.
-- My brother was abusive. He beat me up just about every day. I figured if I'm going to be beaten up anyway, I might as well have a reason for being beaten up, so I called him the one word I knew that would make him mad, even if I had no idea what that word meant. (Queer. Hey, I thought it meant odd, so had no idea why it bothered him.)

Now, please compare my childhood to yours. Was I worse than you? Did I do such horrible things that God just has to punish me with chronic, unrelenting pain? If my sins as a child were equal to yours or less, and if you do not have chronic pain or any disability, then would you please tell me what you did so right, that I did not do?

Honestly? I write fiction for fun, so I have all kinds of ways to imagine perspective that most people don't think of. Give me as daft an idea as you can think of, and one week, and I can make it sound fairly plausible.

BUT, when it comes to God and the Bible, I'd rather have the right perspective than just another imagination. And your perspective really is just imagination. Why would you want to share your perspective when it is contrary to the Bible?

God and Satan aren't "working things out." God has things worked out, including defeating Satan, which he already did about 2000 years ago.

DustyRhodes · Jul 4, 2017

I don't believe there are too many thinks in this thread that are
actually true. Not being critical but I'd like to post these few
verses that substantiate why suffering is not punishment.

2 Corinthians 12:10

Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong.

1 Peter 3:14

But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are blessed AND DO NOT FEAR THEIR INTIMIDATION, AND DO NOT BE TROUBLED

1 Peter 5:10English Standard Version (ESV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.
Romans 5:3-5English Standard Version (ESV)[SUP]3 [/SUP]Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.

Depleted · Jul 4, 2017

Yeraza_Bats said:

(I bolded the line I'm commenting on.)

I would love to read the story of the true follower of Christ/a man after God's own heart, who had a wonderful, easy life. That would be a story to fill my dreams with.

(And, I'm not being sarcastic. I really would like to know if God has ever done that for one of his children.)

Crustyone · Jul 4, 2017

In answer to post #8 in particular, I didn't say I had the correct answers, just another possibility. I'm glad that you are satisfied with your own answers, but are you sure you only sinned twice as a child? Job wasn't aware when he sinned.

Joidevivre · Jul 4, 2017

How can we ever experience the Lord as Healer unless we are sick?
How can we know him personally as Provider unless we suffer a financial setback?
How can we know him as the Comforter unless we are grieving?
How can we know that his grace is sufficient unless we are without strength - esp. physical strength?

How can we grow in empathy and compassion for others unless we also have suffered?
How can we grow in endurance without having to endure suffering?
How can we understand his strength until we have none?

Jesus said that those who bear much fruit, he prunes back so that they can bear even more fruit. I totally understand that and did not until I suffered according to his plan for my life.

Desertsrose · Jul 4, 2017

Zen said:

Hi Zen,

How can you say that? It is Jewish. God made the New Covenant with Israel.....it extended to the Gentiles.

stonesoffire · Jul 4, 2017

Rom 11:16　 If the first part of the dough is holy, so is the whole batch. If the root is holy, so are the branches.　

Rom 11:17　 Now if some of the branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive branch, have been grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree,　

Rom 11:18　 do not boast about being better than the other branches. If you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
　
Rom 11:19　 Then you will say, "Branches were cut off so that I could be grafted in."
　
Rom 11:20　 That's right! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you remain only because of faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid!　

Rom 11:21　 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly will not spare you, either.
　
Rom 11:22　 Consider, then, the kindness and severity of God: his severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness toward you—if you continue receiving his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off.
　
Rom 11:23　 If the Jews do not persist in their unbelief, they will be grafted in again, because God is able to graft them in.　

Rom 11:24　 After all, if you were cut off from what is naturally a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much easier it will be for these natural branches to be grafted back into their own olive tree!　

Back to topic now?

Huckleberry · Jul 4, 2017

Crustyone said:

These conclusions are not definite, as most things in the bible are able to be seen in multiple ways and I am sure my way of looking at this is just one of those ways. Here goes.

I suspect that most long term suffering in those of us who have been around a while are punishment for sins committed in our youth. (Job 13:26 For you write down bitter things against me and make me reap the sins of my youth.) We reap what we sow. Back then a lot of us didn't care or believe in Godly punishment, so we did a lot of things wrong requiring a lot of punishment.

The short term punishments, it seems, are for the sins we commit now. Lack of prayer, unkind words, lustful thoughts, uncaring attitudes, etc. are sins our Father, God, will punish us for. (Hebrews 12:5-8 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6 because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”[a]

7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.) We should rejoice in both the former and this punishment, because we are told that in receiving it we are assured that we are His children.

The last punishment is the worst that we hear about. I can only think that this is only for the ones that will be strong enough to endure it, because it is a test punishment, like Jesus endured, to allow us greater rewards in heaven. I don't expect to have to endure anything like this as I am afraid that I am too weak to endure something like that without falling away, but I would hope I wouldn't.

The punishments to the unsaved, I think are completely in control of Satan as God does not protect them. They can get the best of treatment or the worst of treatment at Satan's whim. He will treat some well to make others think that an ungodly life is a good life. He will treat others that seem good outwardly very badly to make unbelievers think that God is unfair and uncaring. In the instance of uncaring I suspect that they may be right. God knows the future of all of us and those who won't turn from Satan to Him he has no use for and lets Satan do as he will with them.

This just seems to me to be the way God and Satan are working things out and I am sure many of you have your own ideas of how the system works, but this may give you a different perspective of our suffering.

tl;dr
I thought you were asking a question.
Looks more like you're answering a question that wasn't asked.
We have to suffer because we're born into an entropic realm.
We are given a chance either to escape it at our death, or move on to a far worse fate.
Meanwhile we are stuck here, and we either make the best of it or wallow in pity.

stonesoffire · Jul 4, 2017

Joidevivre said:

How can we ever experience the Lord as Healer unless we are sick?
How can we know him personally as Provider unless we suffer a financial setback?
How can we know him as the Comforter unless we are grieving?
How can we know that his grace is sufficient unless we are without strength - esp. physical strength?

How can we grow in empathy and compassion for others unless we also have suffered?
How can we grow in endurance without having to endure suffering?
How can we understand his strength until we have none?

Jesus said that those who bear much fruit, he prunes back so that they can bear even more fruit. I totally understand that and did not until I suffered according to his plan for my life.

There's a time for everything dear sister...joy does come though in the morning.

Issachar92 · Jul 4, 2017

Zen said:

Sounds like you got the wrong faith then.
Jesus was a Jew, all the apostles were jews. There goes that, Christianity is simply a fulfillment of the old covenant, its not a new religion. The only people who think its a new religion are catholics and jealous brats like you. Grow up dude you're old still acting like a whiny brat, you did this in other threads too hahaha. Did you get bullied by Jews and got traumas or something??? The echo of getting slapped is still heard in your bitterness.

Zen · Jul 4, 2017

Depleted said:

Luke 21:17
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

1 Peter 2:19
For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

1 Peter 5:
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: [SUP]2 [/SUP]Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

We can see that even though it feels horrible to suffer, we have the ability to see above and beyond it, for the reason why. God wants us to share in Lord Jesus' suffering so we can also be part of His glory. God's enemy hates God and everyone in God's image, the world is against us, and we suffer for it. But it's for good reason. It's an honor to suffer for God, even though it feels so grievous sometimes. If we willingly suffer here, I am sure God will appreciate it. When we forgive people who hate us, we can conform to God's will, instead of praying to God that He will come and destroy wicked people, we can instead choose to forgive them, and tell God that we will suffer for the sake righteousness, so that the people who God wants to repent can do so. The more people come to God, the more God will be glorified and the more people will know Him. It helps to build character and patience too.

We can't magnify God if we conform to the world and refuse to suffer for His sake and the cause of Christ.

Zen · Jul 4, 2017

Issachar92 said:

You have a pagan symbol on your flag, if I had it on my flag I'd be ashamed of it and try to use a different one. Christianity is not Jewish and you can't find any scripture to say that it is. God had a relationship with Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Israel and plenty of people who came before Judah. You're clinging to ethnicity as some kind of boasting when you probably can't even trace your own heritage anyway.

It would be quite ironic if I read your forum posts and found you to have accused people of being a Judaizer when you keep going on about how God is Jewish, He isn't. A Jew didn't write the book of Genesis, God did. Do you want to know an interesting fact? Lord Jesus does not speak with an accent, not Israeli or English or anything else. His voice is sweet and free from all imperfection.

Issachar92 · Jul 4, 2017

Zen said:

Yup, I go hard on judaizers. You seem to throw out the baby with the bath water.
I am against the works of the law justifying someone in front of God. Only faith in Jesus can do that.

I've never ever boasted about being a Jew, in fact I have told you multiple times that in Christ there is neither jew nor gentile. But the hatred you have for the jews needs to be addressed, if you claim Jesus wasn't a Jew, buddy you got a different Jesus on your hands.
Also you keep talking about the Israeli flag, listen buddy, I didn't design the flag allright, if I could choose i'd use the menorah so there is that. Don't worry Jesus will fix the flag issue once He returns to the Mount of Olives.

I would like you to find even one quote where i've boasted about ethnicity? Never have I done so, ive actually been against that too....
I dunno what else I can say to you, you keep coming up with the same lies and false accusations and I keep telling you my position which is simple: IN CHRIST there is no Jew nor Gentile. Jews are not special. However, God promised that during the time of Jacob's trouble a bunch of them peoples you hate will have the veil removed from their eyes and they will find Jesus the Messiah. Why is that a problem to you? It is simply about GOD and what He has said will happen.

This is what the Bible teaches:

Romans 11:28
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Why do we have to suffer?

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