The truth behind the Law

[Grandpa]

Then we have to ask why we are arguing about this subject as if God has changed.

God didn't change. The way we relate to God has changed.

Hebrews 7:12 [FONT=&quot]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:15-16
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Hebrews 7:18-19
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

This is pretty simple for a Christian. But for people who wish to pervert Christianity I suppose it gets real complicated.[/FONT]

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

God didn't change. The way we relate to God has changed.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:15-16
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

Hebrews 7:18-19

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

This is pretty simple for a Christian. But for people who wish to pervert Christianity I suppose it gets real complicated.

Who are being addressed in Hebrews? The Jews.

What did/does the Jews believe about the law? It will bring you to salvation.

Why is the law unprofitable for them? Because they believe that salvation can be earned by keeping the law and not a living relationship with God (works).

Why should we keep God's covenant? Because He is God and we want to obey Him.

 

[Dan_473]

Now we're back to the same question and the whole topic of this thread

tne law will not pass until all has been accomplished

and the GOSPEL will fobto the ends of the world then will the end come

All are being brought into submission under one head, even CHRIST JESUS

But not all are

we dont know all that is subject to HIM
But when all that is subject to HIM is made subject to HIM then will the kingdom be handed back to the father so that GOD will be all and in all


therefore if one does not believe in CHRIST and the TRUTH of THE GOSPEL have they entered into THE KINGDOM

Paul at Athens

that they should seek the Lord

if perhaps they might reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live, and move, and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his offspring.’ 29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man. 30

The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked.

But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom he has ordained; of which

he has given assurance to all men,
in that he has raised him from the dead.”


when Paul preached this, there were people in India who hadn't heard,
and didn't have that assurance.

so they were still in ignorance, but God overlooked that.

 

[Dan_473]

Somone might ask,how does somone love GOD and their neighbor sincerely In truth and not just with words?

But the lawyer asked Jesus, “Who is my neighbor?”

Jesus said, “A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers.


36 Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?”

37 He said, “He who showed mercy on him.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”

 

[Burninglight]

He believed in THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, sir who said today you will be with ME in paradise

that "thief" reveived by a PROMISE and did not have to steal what was given him freely by believing in THE ONE who's words and promises are steadfast and true

is it your position and authority to decide by your physical eyes who should ascend or who should descend?

did you know that those who come in at the very last hour(who didn't have to work in the early hours and did not have to weather the heat and storms of life) will be first?

Even like the thief on the cross who came in at the very very very very last hour


If one has been baptized into CHRIST (something no man can either bring on or deter by water) what man can declare that man unclean?

What I have said doesn't disagree with any of this; so, I don't understand why you posted this???

 

[Dan_473]

Yet it seems that one more Salvation by faith has been over looked, May I ask why?

As for what Laws, I have answered this more times that I can or want to count. The Torah, (Books of Moses as some call it) is set up so that anyone can read it, and know what Laws are for them and what ones are not. I am not going spend a week placing them all out there, as I know that many on here will only wish to turn into something it is not. Besides with 613 laws in the OT and then 1050 in the NT, The Law becomes a study all it's own. One that I would be happy to undertake, if not for the kind of response I know would come from it.

I really wish you would give a list of the commandments that are for today.

I've asked Torah-observant folks many times, but the answer is usually It's obvious and easy.

If you feel the Torah gives you light, let it shine before men so they can see your good works and glorify your Father.



how bout taking the list here, and just deleting those not for today?
Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Of course! Which is why all mouths will be silenced. Because no one will be able to declare themselves justified by the law since the law already declares that there are none who are righteous, that all have sinned, there is none that do right and never sin

so...

how are we justified in the sight of GOD?

We are justified before GOD by faith In HIS WORD that HE sent to this world manifested In the flesh.

 

[Grandpa]

Who are being addressed in Hebrews? The Jews.
Everyone who would work at the law as the Jews did.

What did/does the Jews believe about the law? It will bring you to salvation.
It will bring you to Salvation once you realize the futility of your work at it. See Matt 5:48, then Matt 11:28

Why is the law unprofitable for them? Because they believe that salvation can be earned by keeping the law and not a living relationship with God (works).
Its not just unprofitable for them. Its unprofitable to everyone who works at it. Because they don't get it. They are carnal but the law is spiritual.

Why should we keep God's covenant? Because He is God and we want to obey Him.
In the New Testament we don't keep a covenant by our work. The covenant is kept by Gods Work.

1 John 4:9-10
[FONT=&quot]9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.[/FONT]

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Who are being addressed in Hebrews? The Jews.

What did/does the Jews believe about the law? It will bring you to salvation.

Why is the law unprofitable for them? Because they believe that salvation can be earned by keeping the law and not a living relationship with God (works).

Why should we keep God's covenant? Because He is God and we want to obey Him.

Some believe that as long as we try to keep the law then we can receive grace.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

But the lawyer asked Jesus, “Who is my neighbor?”

Jesus said, “A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers.


36 Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?”

37 He said, “He who showed mercy on him.”

Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”

Under law the man could not love In Spirit and TRUTH and could only love according to the flesh which was not In Spirit and TRUTH, JESUS had not yet shed HIS blood on the cross for us.

JESUS said that the words HE spoke were Spirit and Life.
We love because GOD first loved us.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Under law the man could not love In Spirit and TRUTH and could only love according to the flesh which was not In Spirit and TRUTH, JESUS had not yet shed HIS blood on the cross for us.

I will have to disagree with this because if we look at Moses, David, Samuel etc folks that were under the law and they loved in Spirit and in Truth.

The corrupt understanding of the Torah is the problem. Jesus is the living Torah. He showed us the way before He was crucified. He lived in Spirit and in Truth by obeying Torah. There was no spot or blemish to be found in Him.

Jesus loved us so much that He willing laid down His life for us. He was under Torah. He loved us while keeping Torah my dear friend.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I will have to disagree with this because if we look at Moses, David, Samuel etc folks that were under the law and they loved in Spirit and in Truth.

You probably mean by grace through faith.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

You probably mean by grace through faith.

So Jesus did not showed us love while living and preaching Torah?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

You probably mean by grace through faith.

So Jesus did not showed us love while living and preaching Torah?

Do you believe Moses did not have a sinful thought?
Grace and TRUTH came by JESUS,that's why I said,you probably meant grace through faith.

 

[miknik5]

Yet it seems that one more Salvation by faith has been over looked, May I ask why?

As for what Laws, I have answered this more times that I can or want to count. The Torah, (Books of Moses as some call it) is set up so that anyone can read it, and know what Laws are for them and what ones are not. I am not going spend a week placing them all out there, as I know that many on here will only wish to turn into something it is not. Besides with 613 laws in the OT and then 1050 in the NT, The Law becomes a study all it's own. One that I would be happy to undertake, if not for the kind of response I know would come from it.

How can what is dead read?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Do you believe Moses did not have a sinful thought?
Grace and TRUTH came by JESUS,that's why I said,you probably meant grace through faith.

Oh I know Moses had some sinful thoughts!!!

But I also believe that grace and truth was always part of the Bible. Did people made mistakes and sinned? Of course they did but we can find many times (even in the OT) the Bible teach us about grace and truth.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Oh I know Moses had some sinful thoughts!!!

But I also believe that grace and truth was always part of the Bible. Did people made mistakes and sinned? Of course they did but we can find many times (even in the OT) the Bible teach us about grace and truth.

Yes,I think I get your point,old covenant or new covenant,It's grace by/through faith.

 

[miknik5]

We are justified before GOD by faith In HIS WORD that HE sent to this world manifested In the flesh.

We are justified by faith in JESUS
Just as THE WORD says

to be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in JESUS
Juat as Romans 3 explains

another thing that is explained in Romans is the truth behind Abraham's faith which was based in a PROMISE...before Abrahsm
jad done anything

 

[miknik5]

My turn to ask questions: Was baptism part of the law? Did he have time to obey the law before he was put on that cross?

I agree he didn't have time when he was on it. Which makes my point. Don't get me wrong. I believe we should be baptized, as an act of obedience, but that act of baptism is not what saves us.

There are many that go down in baptism as dry sinners and come up wet ones with no change. Our salvation is only based on God's grace through faith. This is the truth behind the law! This is what led to the thief's salvation.

He believed in THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, sir who said today you will be with ME in paradise

that "thief" reveived by a PROMISE and did not have to steal what was given him freely by believing in THE ONE who's words and promises are steadfast and true

is it your position and authority to decide by your physical eyes who should ascend or who should descend?

did you know that those who come in at the very last hour(who didn't have to work in the early hours and did not have to weather the heat and storms of life) will be first?

Even like the thief on the cross who came in at the very very very very last hour


If one has been baptized into CHRIST (something no man can either bring on or deter by water) what man can declare that man unclean?

What I have said doesn't disagree with any of this; so, I don't understand why you posted this???

You'll have to explain then what you were trying to say in your initial above post

it appears that you were trying to say something and I misunderstood your point

 

[miknik5]

Was the thief on the cross baptized?

The thief on the cross was led captive in HIS train

just as all those who believed JESUS when HE descended and preached by the SPIRIT...those who had died prior to receiving THE PROMISE which would not come until after CHRIST has entered into HIS GLORY (the GLORY which HE had with the FATHER from before the world ever was)

Were any of those who died before THE PROMISE of THE HOLY SPIRIT (which would be poured out upon those who believe) had come baptized?