The Rapture

[RickyZ]

Preterist believe we are in the 1000 years right now during the church age. The church age lasts 2000 years. I was saying that if the 1000 year reign was actually a two thousand year reign then I might buy it because it matches the length of time of the church.

And thanks for your kind rebuttal.

Oh I was agreeing. If the Bible said it would be a 2,000 year period I would more likely accept that we're in it now.

But it doesn't. And I don't

 

[J7]

More madness and confusion. 144 000 happened already, WHEN?
Seas symbolize old and new covenant in some way in zech 14:8? Where did you come up with that? I present to you the danger of allegory, anything can mean anything.


To try to unravel this whirlwind of weirdness, can yall hit me up and tell me exactly WHY Revelation cant be future? Because it says soon is that it?

Revelation was present and future when it was written.

When the Angel seals the forehead of the Israelites, this comes after the Old Covenant has ended, AD73.

For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people

Now that clearly happened in AD96, when Revelation was given. If not, then we are not yet in the Age of the New Covenant.

 

[Burninglight]

I don't preach trib, the rapture is most definety way post trib lol.

Sorry about that; you are right

 

[Ahwatukee]

Revelation was present and future when it was written.

When the Angel seals the forehead of the Israelites, this comes after the Old Covenant has ended, AD73.

For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people

Now that clearly happened in AD96, when Revelation was given. If not, then we are not yet in the Age of the New Covenant.

The sealing of the 144,000 has yet to take place. In the chronological order of Revelation, they are sealed during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, prior to any of the trumpet judgments, which harm the earth, the trees and the sea. The scripture that you quoted regarding "putting my laws in their minds" is not the seal that the 144,000 receive. It is just misapplied scripture. It will be a visual seal on the forehead and that because those demonic beings that resemble locusts with stings like a scorpion, will be commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth, except for the those who have the seal of God on their foreheads, which means that these demonic beings will see that seal.

Nothing from Revelation chapter 4 onward, which is the "what must take place later" has yet taken place. Revelation 4:1 is prophetic of the church being caught up, when that voice that sounds like a trumpet says "come up here." The 144,000 are sealed after this and after the seal plagues.

The only thing that happened in 70 AD was the destruction of the temple. All other plagues of wrath will take place after the church has been gathered and after the seven year agreement has been made.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Brothers and Sisters who believe our Bridegroom is Coming for us.

Can you see the signs of the times?

Keep Ready it may be soon!

Matthew 25:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’

"Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’ ”

Imminency!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Why do you feel it is important to believe this?

Well, it is easy to see how false teachings are formed. If we look at the scripture that he provided, notice that it states that water will flow "half to the former sea (dead sea) and half to the hinder sea (Mediterranean Sea)." There is nothing in the scripture that would lead the reader to interpret the living waters as not referring to literal water.

When they spiritualize things, they can make scripture say anything that they want, instead of believing exactly what the scripture literally says.

 

[J7]

The sealing of the 144,000 has yet to take place. In the chronological order of Revelation, they are sealed during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, prior to any of the trumpet judgments, which harm the earth, the trees and the sea. The scripture that you quoted regarding "putting my laws in their minds" is not the seal that the 144,000 receive. It is just misapplied scripture. It will be a visual seal on the forehead and that because those demonic beings that resemble locusts with stings like a scorpion, will be commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth, except for the those who have the seal of God on their foreheads, which means that these demonic beings will see that seal.

Nothing from Revelation chapter 4 onward, which is the "what must take place later" has yet taken place. Revelation 4:1 is prophetic of the church being caught up, when that voice that sounds like a trumpet says "come up here." The 144,000 are sealed after this and after the seal plagues.

The only thing that happened in 70 AD was the destruction of the temple. All other plagues of wrath will take place after the church has been gathered and after the seven year agreement has been made.

I have trouble following you literally Ahwatukee. Can you follow yourself ???

You say the Church is raptured prior to the mythical (non scriptural) 7 year Peace Treaty, and then you say they are on earth with stickers on their foreheads.

What is it to be?

 

[J7]

Also Ahwatukee, you never answered my question the other day. Maybe it was a bit too literal for you?

Regarding Israel and the seventy sevens, you have not understood the underlying principal, that after the Messiah was cut off at the end of sixty nine sevens, God paused that last seven years and began to build the Church, which is still in progress. Once it has been completed, the Lord will descend and gather the church in fulfillment of John 14:1-3, 1 Thes.4:13-18. Following that, God will pick up right where He left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years leading up to the Lord's return to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

- Ahwatukee


What did Jesus have in the 69th week that he did not have after?

26 After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing,

 

[J7]

Also, as the 70 weeks are sealed, there is no way of interpreting them until they are completed.

Daniel 9 24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city:........... to seal both vision and prophet,

So Futurism, and all your cod exegesis Ahwatukee, is built on one gigantic lie.

There is no way to understand the 70 weeks, including the 70th week, until it is completed.

And yet you are telling us that the 70th week is in the future, and that you can explain it.

This is sorcery and witchcraft isn't it?

 

[Bookends]

The sealing of the 144,000 has yet to take place. In the chronological order of Revelation, they are sealed during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, prior to any of the trumpet judgments, which harm the earth, the trees and the sea. The scripture that you quoted regarding "putting my laws in their minds" is not the seal that the 144,000 receive. It is just misapplied scripture. It will be a visual seal on the forehead and that because those demonic beings that resemble locusts with stings like a scorpion, will be commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth, except for the those who have the seal of God on their foreheads, which means that these demonic beings will see that seal.

Nothing from Revelation chapter 4 onward, which is the "what must take place later" has yet taken place. Revelation 4:1 is prophetic of the church being caught up, when that voice that sounds like a trumpet says "come up here." The 144,000 are sealed after this and after the seal plagues.

The only thing that happened in 70 AD was the destruction of the temple. All other plagues of wrath will take place after the church has been gathered and after the seven year agreement has been made.

John in Revelation 14 identifies the 144,000 as being thefirst fruits of God and the Lamb (not the last)...

 

[tanakh]

Revelation was present and future when it was written.

When the Angel seals the forehead of the Israelites, this comes after the Old Covenant has ended, AD73.

For this is the covenant that I will establish with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and I will inscribe them on their hearts. And I will be their God and they will be my people

Now that clearly happened in AD96, when Revelation was given. If not, then we are not yet in the Age of the New Covenant.

So when Christ said to his Jewish disciples ''This is my blood of the new testament which is for many for the remission of sins''
Matt 28:26 he was talking about some other new testament they had to wait until 96AD for. assuming that AD 96 really is the date of Revelation it means only John received it because all the others were dead by then

 

[Issachar92]

Brothers and Sisters who believe our Bridegroom is Coming for us.

Can you see the signs of the times?

Keep Ready it may be soon!


Matthew 25:6 (ESV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’

AMEN BROTHER.
IM READY. WE READY. LETS GO!

And speaking of the signs, notice what blitzen66 posted that more and more people are seeing the "truth" in full preterism. That's it right there, strange doctrines. I aint NEVER heard of this I promise yall! Only on the internet, thank GOD the churches I have visited didn't teach this nonsense.

 

[Bookends]

Well, it is easy to see how false teachings are formed. If we look at the scripture that he provided, notice that it states that water will flow "half to the former sea (dead sea) and half to the hinder sea (Mediterranean Sea)." There is nothing in the scripture that would lead the reader to interpret the living waters as not referring to literal water.

When they spiritualize things, they can make scripture say anything that they want, instead of believing exactly what the scripture literally says.

Isn't that why majority of the Jews didn't see Christ as their promised messiah? Missing the time of their visitation which was proclaimed in OT scriptures wasn't due too their lack of interpreting Scriptures in a strict wooden literal fashion.

There'd be no reason for the Holy Spirit to give us understanding if all scripture was intended to taken in a strict wooden literal fashion.

You need to read and interpret my genre of the language used, meaning interpret judgment language as such, poetic language as such and prophetic language as such (all which use metaphors and hyperbole).

 

[J7]

So when Christ said to his Jewish disciples ''This is my blood of the new testament which is for many for the remission of sins''
Matt 28:26 he was talking about some other new testament they had to wait until 96AD for. assuming that AD 96 really is the date of Revelation it means only John received it because all the others were dead by then

No. Why?

33 [FONT=&quot]But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot]: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The New Covenant could only really become properly legitimate when the Old Covenant had passed away, so in other words, post AD73.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[Issachar92]

Isn't that why majority of the Jews didn't see Christ as their promised messiah? Missing the time of their visitation which was proclaimed in OT scriptures wasn't due too their lack of interpreting Scriptures in a strict wooden literal fashion.

There'd be no reason for the Holy Spirit to give us understanding if all scripture was intended to taken in a strict wooden literal fashion.

You need to read and interpret my genre of the language used, meaning interpret judgment language as such, poetic language as such and prophetic language as such (all which use metaphors and hyperbole).

Actually Jesus fulfilled plenty prophecies literally. Even riding in on a donkey! Being pierced for our transgressions etc. Don't forget that the common people heard Jesus gladly and many people joined the church in Acts too, so alot of Jews did accept their Messiah! It was mostly the upper class folks who wasnt having it, they wanted all the power to themselves.

 

[KJV1611]

Well, it is easy to see how false teachings are formed. If we look at the scripture that he provided, notice that it states that water will flow "half to the former sea (dead sea) and half to the hinder sea (Mediterranean Sea)." There is nothing in the scripture that would lead the reader to interpret the living waters as not referring to literal water.

When they spiritualize things, they can make scripture say anything that they want, instead of believing exactly what the scripture literally says.

How does the Holy Spirit flow into the dead sea?

 

[KJV1611]

No. Why?

33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The New Covenant could only really become properly legitimate when the Old Covenant had passed away, so in other words, post AD73.

Paul and all the disciples were under the new covenant, Gods laws were written on their hearts. Why do you think the old covenant passed post AD 73?

 

[J7]

Paul and all the disciples were under the new covenant, Gods laws were written on their hearts. Why do you think the old covenant passed post AD 73?

Well as Paul says in Hebrews 8:


13 [FONT=&quot]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
[/FONT]

i.e the Old Covenant was extant, albeit on its last legs, circa AD60 when Hebrews was written.

I could go into a lot greater depth on this, but the simplest thing to consider is this.

Why was there such a huge problem with Judaizing, why did Paul go Judaic around Jews, and why was there any confusion at all? Jesus could have said the Law was finished, but he never did, neither before nor after his resurrection. So clearly the Law was still in force at that point.

 

[tanakh]

I have trouble following you literally Ahwatukee. Can you follow yourself ???

You say the Church is raptured prior to the mythical (non scriptural) 7 year Peace Treaty, and then you say they are on earth with stickers on their foreheads.

What is it to be?

According to people like Matthew Henry the desolation of the Temple and City was vengeance for the sins of Israel
According to Luke 21 the Abomination was an Army surrounding Jerusalem not some statue erected in a modern constructed temple. There is another example of an Abomination that fits Revelations description. Antiochus Epiphanies erected a statue of Jupiter in the Temple. He sacrificed a Sow on the alter and filled the building with Prostitutes. Abomination of desolation was used to describe any Desecration and Destruction. Jerusalem was a Holy City. Luke may have used Armies surrounding the City instead of Abomination because he was writing to Gentiles who may not have been familiar with the expression or the Jewish History behind it.

Another question to ask is why would this expression be used in connection with a modern Temple? Christ alone is our high priest. The sacrificial system was annulled by Christs sacrifice. Any attempt to restart the Sacrificial system in a new Temple would be an abomination to God in itself without having an Idol in it. We are now living stones of Gods spiritual temple. Its more likely that Antichrist is the Pope nor some other religious leader from an Apostate church.

 

[PlainWord]

WHYYYYYYY!? Why must you torment me with Josephus aaagh. Bruh... Day after day I read this forum and you manage to pull up a different quote from this guy. How much did he write? Dude was a librarian or something, wrote more than all the Apostles combined.

Again, if you don't study history you CANNOT tell if a prophesy has been fulfilled. Your complete and utter ignorance of your own history has led you to believe things fulfilled in the past are yet future. I'm trying to help you my young friend. You should read what your forefathers have written about things which were contemporary to them (your ancient history) as 'those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it.'