God's Commandment For Women Not To Speak In Church

[Zen]

We discipline children and train them in the ways of the Lord. We may spank them when necessary, but that's not beating them.

It's fascinating to see people react to this.

So you believe it's OK to physically strike ("spank") a child to correct them?
Why is it not OK for a man to physically strike a woman to correct her?
Surely it's hypocrisy if you are in favor of correction but not towards yourself.

Women are told to be in obedience to the man, and that it is not a shameful 2nd class thing.

Proverbs 13:24
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Notice the word rod here, it doesn't say "light touch of the hand", being hit with a rod hurts. It's supposed to leave bruises.

Also, to equate correcting a child with beating a wife is incredible. Do you have a verse in scripture to show that you're suppose to beat a wife?

I can provide scriptures of people stoning a wife to death, if you like? I know it's a little more harsh than beating her until she receives wisdom.

How about we use God's correction of His bride as an example?

2 Kings 21:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I will forsake the remnant of mine inheritance, and deliver them into the hand of their enemies; and they shall become a prey and a spoil to all their enemies;

Notice how God didn't say 'I will stop the rain from coming for 7 days' or some small punishment like that. People died. It was violent and bloody.

 

[stonesoffire]

*Briefly warps back to thread*

I have never pressed the subscribe button on a thread in such a guilty yet morbidly curious fashion before...it's actually kinda intriguing.

funny sense of humor.

 

[stonesoffire]

Since you are in agreement, there is a prophesy regarding suffering a woman to teach in the church at Thyatira.

Revelation 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;[SUP] 19 [/SUP]I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Again, I point out another line of discernment that since it is the Lord's commandment for women to be silent in church and not to speak, then God would not be manifesting tongues in women in church in violating His own commandment which proves that tongue the women are speaking as vain & profane babbling is not of Him at all.

May God cause the increase.

As it is, God has and will continue to use women in outreach ministries and as missionaries, even in these christian forums.

This post is full of religious thinking. The natural mind is against the Spirit of freedom.

added:

forgot my main point. Jezebel is the spirit behind the original in the OT.

 

[Issachar92]

I am not a feminist by any means.

I believe women need to be under the shelter of her husband. But, not a whip. Seen as equals in humanity and in the Spirit of God.

My husband doesn't agree with your interpretation. And he is a Jew too Issachar. He is the first one to encourage me to speak up when I have a word from the Lord. But, interrupting the speaker in an assembly to ask questions and even to challenge what is being taught, is never right. And that is the basis for these words of Paul.

But, I would rather deal with your issues then to deal with the religious issues found in enows OP>

You said Issachar, I just wanted to correct that you were responding to 'Zen' and not me I never said that. God bless you.

 

[Zen]

I am not a feminist by any means.

I believe women need to be under the shelter of her husband. But, not a whip. Seen as equals in humanity and in the Spirit of God.

We are under the shelter of God's grace. What happens when we aren't? We get corrected...

1 Timothy 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

I am in agreement with this scripture. Sure, women in this thread might be offended or stunned, but not fearing what will happen to speak out against scripture and sound teaching is foolish.

Nothing personal against the young girl at the start of this thread, but she felt no hesitation to ask me to examine myself because she thought I'm wrong. Couldn't she have provided scripture? None given. Also the guy trying to bait me as if he's in the playground at school, no respect or etiquette.

God gives gifts to women too, it's a wonderful thing. Your husband is correct to say you can give anything that comes from God, he is right to encourage you, but not interrupting teachings in sermons, etc.

My complaint originally was 'modern women' who have not received the benefits of correction from men and through suffrage have caused countless problems. Anyone who is in a loving and godly relationship is blessed, and you should continue doing what you're doing.

 

[stonesoffire]

You said Issachar, I just wanted to correct that you were responding to 'Zen' and not me I never said that. God bless you.

So terribly sorry. I will do an Eve here and say it's because I took 2 Benadryl. Am loose as a caboose. lol

 

[stonesoffire]

We are under the shelter of God's grace. What happens when we aren't? We get corrected...

1 Timothy 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence

I am in agreement with this scripture. Sure, women in this thread might be offended or stunned, but not fearing what will happen to speak out against scripture and sound teaching is foolish.

Nothing personal against the young girl at the start of this thread, but she felt no hesitation to ask me to examine myself because she thought I'm wrong. Couldn't she have provided scripture? None given. Also the guy trying to bait me as if he's in the playground at school, no respect or etiquette.

God gives gifts to women too, it's a wonderful thing. Your husband is correct to say you can give anything that comes from God, he is right to encourage you, but not interrupting teachings in sermons, etc.

My complaint originally was 'modern women' who have not received the benefits of correction from men and through suffrage have caused countless problems. Anyone who is in a loving and godly relationship is blessed, and you should continue doing what you're doing.

The chastisement of the Lord is words. Scripture. In love.

With either wife or husband, there is reasoning and coming to agreement. If none? Go with the head. That's what I always have heard from the Lord. If he is unreasonable and I'm not in agreement, I take it to the Lord. The results are fully on his head then...and God is freed up from correcting me, to correct him.

This is a Christian forum. You and enow should have answers on how to deal with these situations. The wrath of God won't fall on believers and neither should our wrath fall on each other.

Not perfect in this, but I know it's wisdom.

 

[resurrection33]

And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
2 Thess 3:4

No, I don't think the Lord ever relinquished control to Paul. Paul was a good teacher, but like the rest of us, I think he had shortcomings.

 

[notmyown]

em... i don't think the women in the thread are offended about keeping silent in the assembly.

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church...

and how does Christ love the church? He beats her.
no, like this--

and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word...

So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body.

i thank God He gave me the husband He did.

 

[shrume]

Junia was an apostle (Rom 16:7). Do you doubt that an apostle had the capacity to teach?

Chloe ran a church at her house (1 Cor 1:11). Do you doubt that Chloe taught the church she ran?

Concerning abilities in the body of Christ, there is no difference between men and women, Jew or gentile, etc (Gal 3:28).

 

[1ofthem]

It's fascinating to see people react to this.

So you believe it's OK to physically strike ("spank") a child to correct them?
Why is it not OK for a man to physically strike a woman to correct her?
Surely it's hypocrisy if you are in favor of correction but not towards yourself.

Women are told to be in obedience to the man, and that it is not a shameful 2nd class thing.

Proverbs 13:24
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Notice the word rod here, it doesn't say "light touch of the hand", being hit with a rod hurts. It's supposed to leave bruises.



I can provide scriptures of people stoning a wife to death, if you like? I know it's a little more harsh than beating her until she receives wisdom.

How about we use God's correction of His bride as an example?

2 Kings 21:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I will forsake the remnant of mine inheritance, and deliver them into the hand of their enemies; and they shall become a prey and a spoil to all their enemies;

Notice how God didn't say 'I will stop the rain from coming for 7 days' or some small punishment like that. People died. It was violent and bloody.

This is sheer foolishness....are we reverting back to the old covenant now...Should we also sacrifice lambs when we sin?

Jesus didn't go around beating folks into submission did he?

Spousal abuse is a real issue where I'm from, and I can tell you with certainty it's not of God.

Seen this stuff up close and in person...Men beating their wives because he had a bad day at work, didn't like what she cooked for supper, or whatever else they can think up. Kids suffering seeing their mothers punched, kicked, choked, etc. because some bully didn't get everything exactly his way....You can't tell me any of that stuff is from God.

 

[Zen]

Revelation 2:[SUP]20 [/SUP]Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.[SUP]21 [/SUP]And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.[SUP]24 [/SUP]But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.[SUP]25 [/SUP]But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

Again, I point out another line of discernment that since it is the Lord's commandment for women to be silent in church and not to speak, then God would not be manifesting tongues in women in church in violating His own commandment which proves that tongue the women are speaking as vain & profane babbling is not of Him at all.

May God cause the increase.

As it is, God has and will continue to use women in outreach ministries and as missionaries, even in these christian forums.

It sounds as if she was taking a lead role in that church and was using a title which God didn't give to her. I believe she was a false prophet. Consider that 'teaching' was listed next to seducing Christians in bed and later it is mentioned some people were knowing the depths of the cursed liar by speaking, it might have been false tongues and things like that. So I agree with what you said.

I have no problem with women who have been given wisdom and revelation from God to teach it, God has blessed many women in the church.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

you have consistently attempted to bait me by implying that I'm upset or crying.

youre right

and im sorry

 

[Desertsrose]

Much of what Zen says is true. The husband is the head of the wife. But we are all in submission to someone. The employee to their employer. The citizen to the rulers of authority. The Christian to God. The Christian is to submit themselves to one another in brotherly love.

The worldly system will operate the way it chooses to without God. It's not our job to rail against their choices. They need to hear the gospel, not hear condemnation.

We as believers need to be concerned with each other and further the gospel of the kingdom. But we've stepped into society as if it's our world and end up becoming like them in the way we live and decide.

The churches are becoming much like the world and so it's difficult to separate the teachings of God's word from the worldly system because we hear so much from the pulpit that's not biblical. And when I say this, I'm going by polls that are taken like George Barna and there's another one, but I can't think of the poll's name.

Most Christians don't even read their bible so how will they even know what God expects of us if we don't even read His word. The church has just as many divorces as the world does. The church is becoming very liberal. Or I should say those who call themselves Christian are becoming very liberal.

Even here on CC when trying to say what the bible says, others want you to listen to a teaching by so and so and not read the bible. According to some, Christianity got it all wrong for the past 2000 plus years so we now need to listen to modern preachers who now have it right. Ridiculous!

I didn't read all of Enow's post because they tend to be too long, but I do agree that woman are not to be the leaders/teachers. Women are not to be elders, they are men. Our of the eldership we have the apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher. But that doesn't mean that they can't speak in church.

Women have the gift of prophecy and that means she uses her mouth when prophesying. Exactly what that looks like, I'm not sure. I've seen so much fake that I don't know what's real anymore.

We have had times where women share their testimony about something God has done in their life. They have to speak to do that.

In Revelation it says the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus. It's that simple, but prophecy today has either become end times events or its become secret knowledge that only the prophets can speak and know.

So I guess women can't sing in church either? That's talking in church, right?

 

[DustyRhodes]

I find it staggering that some people still keep trying to apply that comment to today's culture.

I agree, it goes from the ridiculous to the absurd. When those exhortations were written
they were prefaced by words such as; could, should, and others. So to refer to them as
commandments is alone mischaracterized.

Both Jesus and Paul knew that rules and requirements were just to get you seriously engaged with the need for grace and mercy; they were never an end in themselves.

 

[stonesoffire]

I would suggest to anyone to do an indepth word study on the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Go into the roots of the Hebrew, and you will be surprised at what you see.

 

[Zen]

This is sheer foolishness....are we reverting back to the old covenant now...Should we also sacrifice lambs when we sin?

Jesus didn't go around beating folks into submission did he?

Spousal abuse is a real issue where I'm from, and I can tell you with certainty it's not of God.

Seen this stuff up close and in person...Men beating their wives because he had a bad day at work, didn't like what she cooked for supper, or whatever else they can think up. Kids suffering seeing their mothers punched, kicked, choked, etc. because some bully didn't get everything exactly his way....You can't tell me any of that stuff is from God.

I'm not saying to go back to the old covenant, I'm pointing out how much wiser they were and how much better society was when women weren't puffed up and disrespectful and answering back without fear and how God has stated dozens of times the need of widows and the fatherless to be taken care of in a loving family.

Lord Jesus didn't go around beating people up, that's true. But He did talk about stoning to death;

Matthew 15:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Children being killed? Are you going to accuse God of being abusive, cruel or sexist?

Ephesians 5:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Women who don't submit and aren't biblical need correction, otherwise they are spreading confusion and partaking in the world against godly authority.

Please note, I have never promoted abuse. I am not condoning abusive relationships. I do not condone senseless violence.

You can't tell me any of that stuff is from God.

I know, abuse isn't.

This is sheer foolishness

I posted 4 passages of scripture, and spoke against hypocrisy. It's foolishness to speak emotionally without thinking.

 

[Zen]

2 days ago, I was at my g.fs house, her hubby was yelling at her telling her to shut up etc, and I felt so uncomfortable.

Maybe she should have took the hint.

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi Zen,

Comments are in blue.

It's fascinating to see people react to this.

So you believe it's OK to physically strike ("spank") a child to correct them?
Why is it not OK for a man to physically strike a woman to correct her?
Surely it's hypocrisy if you are in favor of correction but not towards yourself.

Women are told to be in obedience to the man, and that it is not a shameful 2nd class thing.

​There are many ways to discipline without spanking or beating. The scriptures actually tells us to train a child in the way he should go and the rod of correction is to be used. But we're to use wisdom as well. Part of discipline is teaching them they way that's right and good. Spanking is like a last resort when all other forms of correction aren't working.

As for the wife, you'll never find a scripture that tells the husband to beat his wife. God intended for the husband to lead by example. To love His bride as his very own body. Do you beat your own body? Obedience and submission are not the same thing by the way. We are told to submit to husbands, but we are to obey God. Let's say that a wife got pregnant and her husband told her to go abort her baby. Should she submit to that?

Proverbs 13:24
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Notice the word rod here, it doesn't say "light touch of the hand", being hit with a rod hurts. It's supposed to leave bruises.



I can provide scriptures of people stoning a wife to death, if you like? I know it's a little more harsh than beating her until she receives wisdom.

How about we use God's correction of His bride as an example?

2 Kings 21:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Behold, I am bringing such evil upon Jerusalem and Judah, that whosoever heareth of it, both his ears shall tingle.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And I will stretch over Jerusalem the line of Samaria, and the plummet of the house of Ahab: and I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish, wiping it, and turning it upside down.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And I will forsake the remnant of mine inheritance, and deliver them into the hand of their enemies; and they shall become a prey and a spoil to all their enemies;

Notice how God didn't say 'I will stop the rain from coming for 7 days' or some small punishment like that. People died. It was violent and bloody.

Sorry, but this verse doesn't apply the the husband/wife relationship.

 

[tanakh]

Modern women are horrible. I find it staggering that men don't beat sense in to women any more.

Because its against the law in modern societies as is stoning people to death and burning witches. Perhaps you would be happier in your local mosque.