Pastors making egregious errors

[Willie-T]

================================================
agreeing about one's 'intent', what's really coming from the heart!

Boy, I sure misread THAT intent. Sorry.

 

[Grace777x70]

I don't want "the closest to the original language". I want "the closest to the INTENT of the original speakers." Luke 14:26 about "hating your parents, siblings, and self", is a good example of the danger of that.

I agree....Well said!

When the people of Jesus' and Paul's day heard the Greek language being spoken - they knew what it was saying but they still needed the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth and revelation behind what is actually being said.

We are just as reliant on the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ and all that He has already done for us in the scriptures as Mary was dependent on the Holy Spirit to conceive Jesus in her womb.

 

[bluto]

It is a United Methodist Church. And, yes, the (now former) pastor has said other things that are contrary to Scripture, i.e. Jesus was not sinless when he as incarnate; Satan may or may not exist (he didn't know for sure); heaven may or may not exist (he didn't know for sure). And, even though he has been moved to another church, I HAVE considered reporting him to his bishop. But I'm not a Methodist, so I'm not sure anyone would care what I thought. And, Bluto, it's because of the people in the congregation that I wanted to stand up and correct him -- I didn't want ONE person to walk out of that place without knowing the truth.

And, because this is a UMC, there are NO elders -- no one to keep the pastor accountable. It's really a terrible system.

And for those of you who think I'm the one in error, that I may have just "misinterpreted" what he said, this is what he LITERALLY said to the entire congregation:

"And what did Jesus say was the greatest commandment? Love your neighbor as yourself."

It was THAT clear-cut. It was THAT egregious. There was no way of misinterpreting it.

Well santuzza there's your problem right there in front of you? Your attending a liberal church which has been infected with liberal theology so I can believe your concerns. What's really interesting is the fact the Methodist Church was founded by John Wesely in the late 18th and 19th century which was known as the age of Enlightenment. And if you were to read their articles of faith when the church was founded it's basically spot on with Orthodox Trinitarian theology.

Now, as of today they do not believe the Bible should be interpreted literally and there are a host of other beliefs that are flat out unbiblical which explains your Pastor's comments. I would look for another Church and always look up what they believe before attending. The other thing to consider is there is no perfect church but it's not hard to spot churches that deviate from Biblical Orthodoxy. I'm talking about the essentials of the Christian faith.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[oldethennew]

Boy, I sure misread THAT intent. Sorry.

======================================================

you're forgiven, because you're (2)yrs. older than me - now where are my glasses?

 

[Meggido]

So, if someone stands up to correct the one giving the message and I don't agree with the person giving the correction and their theology, can I stand up and correct them?.... See where this is going?

Which is why such matters should be addressed as Matt 18 tell us to address them...

 

[Meggido]

There is no exception for failure to follow scripture when addressing a brother's error.

We would fire you for poor choice of speakers. You let someone that you had no idea what he was going to say speak to your congregation. Then you insult him in front of the congregation when he goes says something that you don't agree with.

Please show me were board members, deacons or elders firing pastors is at in scripture...

For the record, I keep a check on people, but their doctrine can change at any time...in this particular case, I had no idea his doctrine had changed, and he only got into about 5 minutes before he was stopped....

It went kinda like this...

He gave his thank yous and honor speech and began with...Jesus is coming back soon....are you ready? I am and then we will be raptured out of here, on 9/23/15...who is with me and then looked at me and said how wrong I had always been....and then looked at my people and said....he is wrong, join me now and leave this den of sin...

Yeah he got shut down and quickly....

My elders at the time were just as surprised as I was and instead of firing me, thanked me for quickly putting it down....


Deacon Boards that control the church, the church finances and the Pastor are not remotely Biblical...and never have been...

I do not think you would ever witnessed Stephen getting Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, together and conspiring to fire Peter...and then convincing the rest of the church and then firing Peter...yet many denominations think this way and its wrong...the Assembly of God allows fart oo much control to their local church boards and one of the many myriad reasons the AOG is collapsing

 

[CaptainGoat]

Firing? For the church to function properly as it did in the days of Acts, none of the positions were paid but were given to the church from God. In other words, each gave their time to their calling as they were able and supported themselves with various jobs they were able to do.

 

[Meggido]

It is a United Methodist Church. And, yes, the (now former) pastor has said other things that are contrary to Scripture, i.e. Jesus was not sinless when he as incarnate; Satan may or may not exist (he didn't know for sure); heaven may or may not exist (he didn't know for sure). And, even though he has been moved to another church, I HAVE considered reporting him to his bishop. But I'm not a Methodist, so I'm not sure anyone would care what I thought. And, Bluto, it's because of the people in the congregation that I wanted to stand up and correct him -- I didn't want ONE person to walk out of that place without knowing the truth.

And, because this is a UMC, there are NO elders -- no one to keep the pastor accountable. It's really a terrible system.

And for those of you who think I'm the one in error, that I may have just "misinterpreted" what he said, this is what he LITERALLY said to the entire congregation:

"And what did Jesus say was the greatest commandment? Love your neighbor as yourself."

It was THAT clear-cut. It was THAT egregious. There was no way of misinterpreting it.

If you were not a member or a confirmed Methodist, they would have never heard your complaint....

Every UMC church as a Pastor/Parish Relations committee that oversee the pastor and staff of the church....this committee is made up of members of that local UMC Church and voted into the capacity by other members of that local UMC Church.....This is a form of elder leadership...the fact you claim there is no such thing leaves me to wonder what your agenda was/is here..

 

[Meggido]

I think there are issues that arrize when we put individuals into positions based on qualifications and not on their walk with God. Many countries have this issue. The UK is not immune to it either. I've seen a magazine dating back 20 years which wanted church leaders and they had to have this and that qualification... This was in the evangelical type of church denominations who should know better!

Spot on 100%!!!!Pastors should be called and not made....

 

[BeyondET]

Spot on 100%!!!!Pastors should be called and not made....

Hahaha, stop being so spiritual...

 

[pottersclay]

.wwyd..........what would yet do....????

 

[BeyondET]

.wwyd..........what would yet do....????

Let him speak, then when he left because he was only a guest and not a pastor at the church, easy enough to say WOW now their is your example of odd doctrine,

did fear play a factor in these folks deciding to toss the guy because they may have thought people might actually leave the church. I bet if the guy was here to tell the other side of the story, we'd probably get a better picture of what really happened from both prospectives.

 

[BeyondET]

These pastors, preachers etc. roles of service were designed by Christ to lead all members to serve God according to their abilities (Eph. 4:12). In that respect, all Christians should be ministers of the gospel. Working together with preachers and elders,pastors etc. so the whole congregation can grow according to the Lord’s plan. how many pastors actually do this and not just on stage for the spot light.

 

[Meggido]

These pastors, preachers etc. roles of service were designed by Christ to lead all members to serve God according to their abilities (Eph. 4:12). In that respect, all Christians should be ministers of the gospel. Working together with preachers and elders,pastors etc. so the whole congregation can grow according to the Lord’s plan. how many pastors actually do this and not just on stage for the spot light.

This is why the 5 fold ministry gifts has never truly ceased. It only ceases because of error.

 

[BeyondET]

This is why the 5 fold ministry gifts has never truly ceased. It only ceases because of error.

I agree people being called to preach is still active yet the ministry is complete.

I'll ask, what are some ways that you are do being a pastor to help your congregation grow in their own ability and gifts.

1. Do you let members of your congregation teach infront of the whole congregation sometimes, so themselves can gain confidence in teaching infront of others?
2. How do you help the saints among your congregation?
3. How do you treat others that may have a message that you haven't heard before being a pastor, how do you handle that?

 

[Meggido]

I agree people being called to preach is still active yet the ministry is complete.

We have nothing much to discuss then, because we are at odds over if a ministry gift is complete or not...if you do not believe the gifts or ministry gifts are for today, does this also include salvation and credited righteousness? they both are gifts as well. We cannot just rip out parts of the Bible we disagree with now, can we?


despite differences in doctrine I will go ahead and try to answer, but I doubt it will make much sense to you, since you seem not to believe any gifts are for today.

I'll ask, what are some ways that you are do being a pastor to help your congregation grow in their own ability and gifts.

Every person is graced with a motivational grace gift found in Romans 12.6-8 & 1 Peter 4.10-11<<<<these re the same gifts BTW.

We have developed Biblical ways to help our people confirm as the Spirit has led them, which gift they have be given according to Romans 12.6-8 & 1 Peter 4.10-11.

We then build our committees and volunteer teams based on the gifting the person has been graced with...our gifted administrators, are usually the heads of the committees/groups.

1. Do you let members of your congregation teach infront of the whole congregation sometimes, so themselves can gain confidence in teaching infront of others?

We allow people to teach or preach in front of the whole congregation all the time...we give them 5-15 minutes to give us what God has laid on their hearts to give. We also allow them the whole time, when they are ready and it is confirmed they are ready by the Spirit. We never put anyone up, if they are not ready to go and they know they are ready to go. They also will be given the chance to led Sunday school class, or teach a discipleship class.

we rely on our gifted teachers to led and mentor up and coming teachers.

we even have an open microphone during service in case someone is led by the Spirit to give a word of truth, wisdom or encouragement to the folks. We also do this while training our people to be led in the 3 vocal/3 revelation gifts of 1 Cor 12. A tongue must always have an interpretation. This is not a dreaded issue, because our elders who move in the prophetic gift can and will interpret any tongue and I also can do that as well. These elders also judge any word as following scripture or not

2. How do you help the saints among your congregation?

We make disciples and not pew/chair warmers...we have a very methodical, intentional discipleship program. We teach progressive Sunday School classes based on your spiritual maturity.....a new born baby in Christ is not going to understand crucifying the flesh or the dynamics of the anointing upon and within you right out of the gate, so we start with intentional/progressive Bible teaching. We do not allow Christian Celebrity resources to be used, we use the Bible... we also have an intentional discipleship training both in theology, doctrine and practical applications, i.e., train them how to be led to listen and then obey the Spirit in approaching people.

3. How do you treat others that may have a message that you haven't heard before being a pastor, how do you handle that?

We let the person continue teaching and preaching, then if we have questions afterwards we will approach the person and ask to review their notes and what the Spirit told them.



Maturing, equipping and completing saints for the ministry is far different than allowing someone to come in and spread false doctrine all over God's house...

 

[BeyondET]

I agree people being called to preach is still active yet the ministry is complete.

We have nothing much to discuss then, because we are at odds over if a ministry gift is complete or not...if you do not believe the gifts or ministry gifts are for today, does this also include salvation and credited righteousness? they both are gifts as well. We cannot just rip out parts of the Bible we disagree with now, can we?


despite differences in doctrine I will go ahead and try to answer, but I doubt it will make much sense to you, since you seem not to believe any gifts are for today.

Every person is graced with a motivational grace gift found in Romans 12.6-8 & 1 Peter 4.10-11<<<<these re the same gifts BTW.

We have developed Biblical ways to help our people confirm as the Spirit has led them, which gift they have be given according to Romans 12.6-8 & 1 Peter 4.10-11.

We then build our committees and volunteer teams based on the gifting the person has been graced with...our gifted administrators, are usually the heads of the committees/groups.



We allow people to teach or preach in front of the whole congregation all the time...we give them 5-15 minutes to give us what God has laid on their hearts to give. We also allow them the whole time, when they are ready and it is confirmed they are ready by the Spirit. We never put anyone up, if they are not ready to go and they know they are ready to go. They also will be given the chance to led Sunday school class, or teach a discipleship class.

we rely on our gifted teachers to led and mentor up and coming teachers.

we even have an open microphone during service in case someone is led by the Spirit to give a word of truth, wisdom or encouragement to the folks. We also do this while training our people to be led in the 3 vocal/3 revelation gifts of 1 Cor 12. A tongue must always have an interpretation. This is not a dreaded issue, because our elders who move in the prophetic gift can and will interpret any tongue and I also can do that as well. These elders also judge any word as following scripture or not



We make disciples and not pew/chair warmers...we have a very methodical, intentional discipleship program. We teach progressive Sunday School classes based on your spiritual maturity.....a new born baby in Christ is not going to understand crucifying the flesh or the dynamics of the anointing upon and within you right out of the gate, so we start with intentional/progressive Bible teaching. We do not allow Christian Celebrity resources to be used, we use the Bible... we also have an intentional discipleship training both in theology, doctrine and practical applications, i.e., train them how to be led to listen and then obey the Spirit in approaching people.



We let the person continue teaching and preaching, then if we have questions afterwards we will approach the person and ask to review their notes and what the Spirit told them.



Maturing, equipping and completing saints for the ministry is far different than allowing someone to come in and spread false doctrine all over God's house...

We are at odds indeed, Jesus died on the cross, the Apostles wrote the scriptures about it, It is finish,, do you not understand that, no because you don't understand, you bring verses because you don't have ears to hear what I'm saying. You tell me to stop being spiritual because you don't not know me at all none, to say such a thing, to me that speaks volume about who you are as far as a pastors supposed to be, you judge without me without warrant. Yea those verses you so proudly posted about being under the microscope, you want it you got it.

 

[Denadii]

While my vocabulary is not small, I don't even know what the word 'egregious' means. LOL Its funny how people will use big words to what? Impress? make others think they are smarter of know more than they do? We are indeed a peculiar people. LOL

 

[Meggido]

We are at odds indeed, Jesus died on the cross, the Apostles wrote the scriptures about it, It is finish,, do you not understand that, no because you don't understand, you bring verses because you don't have ears to hear what I'm saying. You tell me to stop being spiritual because you don't not know me at all none, to say such a thing, to me that speaks volume about who you are as far as a pastors supposed to be, you judge without me without warrant. Yea those verses you so proudly posted about being under the microscope, you want it you got it.

Classic....I discerned you were setting me up and the joke is really on you....who is acting the fool now....and attacking?

You should know that whenever someone in the Body tells someone:

you don't not know me at all

It usually means the exact opposite, that someone has discerned something very accurate....I love you christian rodeo clowns, that get all puffed up and hurt and defensive when the truth comes agaisnt you.

I called you out as being spiritual because you do not ever take God's word as fact and dance around silly and foolish topics that mean nothing and then proceed to quiz others like you have some revelation knowledge nobody knows about......

What was finished the Bible or Jesus work of redemption?

Careful now, you are playing with big boys and girls that might actually know something of more value than which Mountain the 12 disciples were called at...

You were not judged you were discerned as spiritualizing the age of Jesus....only attention getters feel compelled to spiritualize trivial Bible knowledge and then Lord it over common people....you spiritualized his age, by not taking God's word for his

Most do this because they are jealous of those that have willing paid the price to operate in their God given, approved , validated calling and his powerful anointing.....

You remind me of spiritually immature, self called pastor/teachers and preachers that spend their entire life trying to set up, attack and discredit those who few are called, chosen and sent...because they are jealous of others....

Just another day wrasslin alligators...

 

[BeyondET]

While my vocabulary is not small, I don't even know what the word 'egregious' means. LOL Its funny how people will use big words to what? Impress? make others think they are smarter of know more than they do? We are indeed a peculiar people. LOL

Yea elaborate detailing to puff themselves up as O we got it going on.