The Olivet Discourse

[Locutus]

HE said as long as it is seed...time...and harvest the earth will remain and HE will not destroy the earth by water again?

And do you believe Peter that the earth will be destroyed, not by water but by fire?

Unfortunately this is a commonly promoted misunderstanding of Peter's statement:


2 Pet 3:12 KJV Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Elements in the above is from the Greek stoicheion, while it can mean physical matter it is only used in the new testament in regards to philoshopical or religious teachings or doctrines:

Examples:

Gal 4:3 KJV Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

(Gal 4:9 KJV) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Peter's usage of stoicheion is in line with Hebraic thought as was Paul's, not Western scientific thinking.

The elements did pass away with "fervent heat" in the destruction of the temple and the dissolution of the old covenant.

The bible has to be read in it's Hebraic concepts of the time.

 

[Willie-T]

How will sin be removed in a single day?

It arrived on the Earth in a single day, didn't it?

We really have to quit limiting God to only actions that our small minds can comprehend.

 

[Willie-T]

Unfortunately this is a commonly promoted misunderstanding of Peter's statement:


2 Pet 3:12 KJV Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Elements in the above is from the Greek stoicheion, while it can mean physical matter it is only used in the new testament in regards to philoshopical or religious teachings or doctrines:

Examples:

Gal 4:3 KJV Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

(Gal 4:9 KJV) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Peter's usage of stoicheion is in line with Hebraic thought as was Paul's not Western scientific thinking.

The elements did pass away with "fervent heat" in the destruction of the temple and the dissolution of the old covenant.

The bible has to be read in it's Hebraic concepts of the time.

I'm amazed. Very few Christians (non Jews) seem to know that particular fact.

 

[Locutus]

I'm amazed. Very few Christians (non Jews) seem to know that particular fact.

Paul speaks of the same passing of the Old Covenant world I believe here Willie in a different figure of speech, he said the time for the passing was "short":

1 Cor 7:29 KJV But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;

1 Cor 7:30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;

1 Cor 7:31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world (Greek kosmos) passeth away.

 

[miknik5]

is fire in the Bible a symbol of God's judgment? even at Pentecost?

it's symbolic, right? (meaning not necessarily literal?)

just wondering.......

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Does this sound like the day of Pentecost?
Can't we tell that this is different from the day that fire came down upon the heads of the disciples and they were filled with the HOLY SPIRIT?

Are you saying that when the earth is destroyed and all the elements that are perishable with it by fire, that this is the same thing as the day of Pentecost?

And 2 Thesselonians 2:8, what does that mean?

 

[miknik5]

It arrived on the Earth in a single day, didn't it?

We really have to quit limiting God to only actions that our small minds can comprehend.

Do you agree that there is only ONE WAY to THE FATHER?

 

[miknik5]

It arrived on the Earth in a single day, didn't it?

We really have to quit limiting God to only actions that our small minds can comprehend.

And with it the WAY was blocked lest man eat of the TREE of LIFE and live forever

 

[Locutus]

is fire in the Bible a symbol of God's judgment? even at Pentecost?

it's symbolic, right? (meaning not necessarily literal?)

just wondering.......

Often fire is used in regards to judgment, context is needed - in regards to Pentecost - it says like "fire":

Acts 2:3 KJV And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

John stated they would be baptised with "fire":

Mat 3:11 KJV I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

John could be using fire in the context of testing of faith to which Peter speaks:

1 Pet 4:12 KJV Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

 

[miknik5]

It's interesting that Peter prefaces this scripture with these words:


2 Peter 3This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Willie-T]

notmyown,

I think we just have to sit back and wait for some people's eyes to be opened Supernaturally.

 

[J7]

Often fire is used in regards to judgment, context is needed - in regards to Pentecost - it says like "fire":

Acts 2:3 KJV And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

John stated they would be baptised with "fire":

Mat 3:11 KJV I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

John could be using fire in the context of testing of faith to which Peter speaks:

1 Pet 4:12 KJV Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

Fire is for purification.

 

[Locutus]

Psa 97:1 KJV The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.

Psa 97:2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.

Psa 97:3 A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.

 

[BeyondET]

[video=youtube;iauIP8swfBY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iauIP8swfBY[/video]

 

[J7]

So are you saying the New Heaven and Earth came in AD70?

Eph 3:21 (NASB) to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations [fn] forever and ever. Amen.

fn - Literally: of the age of the ages

Paul states that worship will occur throughout the generations "forever" therefore to state there is an end of generations posited by a supposed end of the church age and an end of the world is contrary to what Paul stated and other scriptures.

"age of the ages" is the Greek way of saying "endless" - that's why modern translations translate the phrase
aionas ton aionon (αἰῶνας τῶν αἰώνων) as "forever and ever".

​

Yes there was a new creation, the deconstruction of the old creation was in the 1st century AD, the old creation was the "world" of the Israelites that came to an end in the war of 66-70 AD along with the passing of the old covenant - the new creation is the covenant of Christ:

Heb 8:13 (Young's Literal) in the saying 'new,' He hath made the first old, and what doth become obsolete and is old is nigh disappearing.

 

[KJV1611]

There is no end of the world - trying to build "theology" on a poor translation of the Greek text leads to bogus results.

Try using a better translation such as Young's Literal:

Mat 24:3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, 'Tell us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

Paul told his readers that the end of the ages had come upon them:

1 Co 10:11 And all these things as types did happen to those persons, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the end of the ages did come

And in Hebrews:

Heb 9:26 since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested.

Sure there's an end to the world, and it ended when the gospel came. The world isn't the earth, and it isn't "an age", it's "human existence, the affairs of life"... wordly meaning secular or carnal. That world ended when Christ came.

When we understand what "world" REALLY means, the verses below take on a whole DIFFERENT meaning... and I thank you very much for bringing this to my attention because I didn't know that until you caused me to find out what world really means!

Matthew 24:14 KJV
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 13:39 KJV
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:40 KJV
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Matthew 13:49 KJV
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Matthew 24:14 KJV
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.





John 12:31 KJV
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

[miknik5]

Fire is for purification.

GOD is a refiner and a launderer and a purifier
but HE disciplines now

not later

then it would be too late

its what Peter meant when he said do not scorn THE FATHER's discipline
for every child is disciplined


Even Daniel speaks about some of the wise will stumble so as to be made pure....For the time of the end


theres a purpose in this for they will lead many in pure holy unbiased perfect impartial righteousness

but the wicked will not understand

 

[miknik5]

Sure there's an end to the world, and it ended when the gospel came. The world isn't the earth, and it isn't "an age", it's "human existence, the affairs of life"... wordly meaning secular or carnal. That world ended when Christ came.

When we understand what "world" REALLY means, the verses below take on a whole DIFFERENT meaning... and I thank you very much for bringing this to my attention because I didn't know that until you caused me to find out what world really means!

Matthew 24:14 KJV
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 13:39 KJV
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:40 KJV
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Matthew 13:49 KJV
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Matthew 24:14 KJV
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.





John 12:31 KJV
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

In light of your statement, please expound the following:

John 14:

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Eventhe Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

John 17:

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.13And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.14I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.18As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

 

[miknik5]

Ummmm you might want to look that up and post the whole quote in CONTEXT......and the TIMING of the CONTEXT......just saying....

Yes, you're right that 100 year old is during the 1000 year reign...

 

[miknik5]

Unfortunately this is a commonly promoted misunderstanding of Peter's statement:


2 Pet 3:12 KJV Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Elements in the above is from the Greek stoicheion, while it can mean physical matter it is only used in the new testament in regards to philoshopical or religious teachings or doctrines:

Examples:

Gal 4:3 KJV Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

(Gal 4:9 KJV) But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Peter's usage of stoicheion is in line with Hebraic thought as was Paul's, not Western scientific thinking.

The elements did pass away with "fervent heat" in the destruction of the temple and the dissolution of the old covenant.

The bible has to be read in it's Hebraic concepts of the time.

That's why HE is going to shake both the heavens and the earth.
To signify what can be removed...that is those who had their eyes on the "wrong treasures"...

 

[miknik5]

I'm amazed. Very few Christians (non Jews) seem to know that particular fact.

anything that is perishable, when HE shakes both the heavens and the earth, will be removed...