Not By Works

[mailmandan]

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy "first love".Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the "first works"; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Rev 2:5

Clearly the Lord wanted the members of the church at Ephesus to repent--to change their minds regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (v 4b). "Repent and do the first works" (v 5b). Works of love no longer characterized the church at Ephesus.

The preceding (vv 2-3) and following (v 6) verses make it clear that this church was not totally displeasing to the Lord. He commended the Ephesian church for maintaining doctrinal purity in the face of false teachers in the Ephesian church. However, this cannot be a substitute for love."

The question in the verse before us is the identification of the warning which follows the Lord's command to repent. What did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lampstand if it did not repent?

The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. I don't believe this means that believers will lose their salvation, but the church can forfeit its place of light-bearing and witness. Ephesus is a city now dominated by Islam. The light of the church seems to have been removed there.

 

[JIMBO43]

Also, not bragging but I'm probably one of the least self-absorbed people on here..

is that so well why argue that the mic should be free when theres a server to pay...


tell me is it self absorbed to suggest that the owners of this site should pay for the server as well as maintain it..

 

[mailmandan]

Also, not bragging but I'm probably one of the least self-absorbed people on here..

I never got the impression that you were self absorbed Lady Blue.

 

[blue_ladybug]

The mic WAS free to use a couple of years ago..when the site was advertised as free.. And no one here has argued whether the mic and other stuff should be free to use or not, but if it IS advertised as free, but in fact is NOT free, then that's false advertising..

And no, it's not self-absorbed to ask for donations to keep the server going.. You're trying to make a fight where there is none, Jim..

is that so well why argue that the mic should be free when theres a server to pay...


tell me is it self absorbed to suggest that the owners of this site should pay for the server as well as maintain it..

 

[blue_ladybug]

Thank you, Dan..

I never got the impression that you were self absorbed Lady Blue.

 

[blue_ladybug]

This site is NOT all that plus a bag of chips.. LOL

is that so well why argue that the mic should be free when theres a server to pay...


tell me is it self absorbed to suggest that the owners of this site should pay for the server as well as maintain it..

 

[garee]

Paul was very specific about festivals, if you like them amen if not amen

Yes either way they are shadows and not the substance needed to forgive sin. They are used in historical parables like the Exodus and Deuteronomy ones. They are not moral laws by which we could judge one another in love.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

The reason which is different from the two historically true parables

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it

A diferent reasoning caoording to another time period using again a historically true parable

Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
euteronomy

A different rememberance

5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

There he equates the rest we have in Christ as the lamb of God slain from the foundation to the rest when he moved the Jews out of Egypt with Egypt in that parable to represent all the kingdoms of this world under the control of Satan who is typified as the Pharaoh another picture of salvation just as the Exodus account.

 

[Muzungu256]

Look...until you take the whole book and the context of the whole book into account you will continue to miss the bigger picture and what it all means....Hebrew Christians wanting to forsake the New Covenant and go back under the OLD Covenant....the whole book deals with that ISSUE and EVERYTHING must be interpreted in light of that....it is a contradiction between the NEW and BETTER way as opposed to the OLD WAY WHICH cannot forgive SIN and or make the hearer right and or justified in the eyes of GOD.....the book DOES NOT TEACH the loss of SALVATION it teaches that UNDER THE OLD there is NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS and that UNDER THE NEW COVENANT JESUS continually MEDIATES for ALL believers under a NEW and BETTER WAY with a DIFFERENT Priesthood than what was under the OLD.....and until you view the book in that LIGHT you will continue to believe this farce of losing salvation.....

UNDER the NEW covenant....the bible is clear...WHERE SIN ABOUNDS<--GRACE did much more ABOUND....UNDER THE OLD...THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS and to FORSAKE the NEW WAY is to count the blood of JESUS a common ordinary BASE thing and trample JESUS under your feet.......

I am done arguing with you....take it or leave it....end of story!

as i predicted earlier: "and what i smell coming is probably some way to end the conversation to further avoid it"
theres that cant deal with this............... so the willful sin there is talking about the old covenant but if that is the case why does it say the judgment is much worse for trodding the blood in the new covenant which is wilfull sin................. i agree thats what book of hebrews is about hebrews wanting to go back under the old covenatn........... i also agree if wilfull sin means u lose salvation everyone has lost it today so lets try make some sense...............

 

[blue_ladybug]

The ONLY way to lose salvation is to outright deny that Jesus, God and the HS exist..

as i predicted earlier: "and what i smell coming is probably some way to end the conversation to further avoid it"
theres that cant deal with this............... so the willful sin there is talking about the old covenant but if that is the case why does it say the judgment is much worse for trodding the blood in the new covenant which is wilfull sin................. i agree thats what book of hebrews is about hebrews wanting to go back under the old covenatn........... i also agree if wilfull sin means u lose salvation everyone has lost it today so lets try make some sense...............

 

[Limey410v2]

The ONLY way to lose salvation is to outright deny that Jesus, God and the HS exist..

I think that once you have received salvation (truly received it) that you are not able, by design to deny His existence. Ergo, no one truly saved will lose salvation

This would be a heart matter, you might scream at God in the midst of your struggles, but he knows our hearts.

Scripture teaches us that He will complete the work He started, that is a promise.

If that is the case if you lost your salvation, He wouldn't be able to fulfill that promise. Salvation is the start of that work.

If one rejects the Holy Spirit, one is not saved.

 

[JIMBO43]

The mic WAS free to use a couple of years ago..when the site was advertised as free.. And no one here has argued whether the mic and other stuff should be free to use or not, but if it IS advertised as free, but in fact is NOT free, then that's false advertising..

And no, it's not self-absorbed to ask for donations to keep the server going.. You're trying to make a fight where there is none, Jim..

what ive noticed in life is quite often people when they make false accusations are nrmally speaking from there heart.... and actually what there speaking is there own reflection of they can do no wrong and your wrong and all that jazz..

this is a compulsery disorder to constantly attack ,,,,, i mean why else would you be a bug ?

 

[BillG]

what ive noticed in life is quite often people when they make false accusations are nrmally speaking from there heart.... and actually what there speaking is there own reflection of they can do no wrong and your wrong and all that jazz..

this is a compulsery disorder to constantly attack ,,,,, i mean why else would you be a bug ?

Sometimes people make false accusations from a wounded heart as a form of deflection.

 

[stonesoffire]

Sometimes people make false accusations from a wounded heart as a form of deflection.

　
God of All Comfort
2Co 1:3　 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah! He is our merciful Father and the God of all comfort,　


2Co 1:4　 who comforts us in all our suffering, so that we may be able to comfort others in all their suffering, as we ourselves are being comforted by God.

I see the heart of the Lord working in you BillG...　

 

[Ariel82]

　
God of All Comfort
2Co 1:3　 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah! He is our merciful Father and the God of all comfort,　


2Co 1:4　 who comforts us in all our suffering, so that we may be able to comfort others in all their suffering, as we ourselves are being comforted by God.

I see the heart of the Lord working in you BillG...　

Amen praise God for all our beloved siblings.

I see God's love working in you too stone.

Internet hug!

 

[Muzungu256]

bible says nothing can take u out of my hand and all who Father gives me i will lose none, you are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, nothing can separate us from the love of God and even if we deny Him He will remain faithful cause He cant deny Himself, just believe and be saved john 20:21


^so u cant lose your salvation.


but the bible also says if we wilfully sin no sacrifice remains for sins and its impossible to renew those into repentance who have left and that some people's names were in the book of life but then were wiped away and unbelief causes branches to be cut off be careful, believing is not enough even demons believe.


^so u can lose your salvation.


this is a huge problem and that is why we have 900 pages of debate on the most important issue that is salvation and nobody can even know the basic thing???????? everyone is just quoting their side of the verses lol

 

[blue_ladybug]

Jim, YOU are the one making false accusations and assumptions here. YOU assume that myself and others here do not donate to the site. You don't TRULY know if we do or not, and by the way, YOU admitted that YOU don't currently donate here either..

I've NEVER said that I do no wrong, or that I'm absolutely right and all others are wrong.. If anyone has a compulsory disorder to attack others constantly, it's YOU, because you've been doing it for the last few days..


WITHOUT provocation, and WITH paranoia, I might add..

what ive noticed in life is quite often people when they make false accusations are nrmally speaking from there heart.... and actually what there speaking is there own reflection of they can do no wrong and your wrong and all that jazz..

this is a compulsery disorder to constantly attack ,,,,, i mean why else would you be a bug ?

 

[blue_ladybug]

You know what, Jim? I feel sorry for you, I really do. God have mercy on you is all I can say..

what ive noticed in life is quite often people when they make false accusations are nrmally speaking from there heart.... and actually what there speaking is there own reflection of they can do no wrong and your wrong and all that jazz..

this is a compulsery disorder to constantly attack ,,,,, i mean why else would you be a bug ?

 

[BillG]

bible says nothing can take u out of my hand and all who Father gives me i will lose none, you are sealed with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, nothing can separate us from the love of God and even if we deny Him He will remain faithful cause He cant deny Himself, just believe and be saved john 20:21


^so u cant lose your salvation.


but the bible also says if we wilfully sin no sacrifice remains for sins and its impossible to renew those into repentance who have left and that some people's names were in the book of life but then were wiped away and unbelief causes branches to be cut off be careful, believing is not enough even demons believe.


^so u can lose your salvation.


this is a huge problem and that is why we have 900 pages of debate on the most important issue that is salvation and nobody can even know the basic thing???????? everyone is just quoting their side of the verses lol

Not necessarily. It truly is a tough passage.

I have a good PDF document on it if you want me to e-mail it you. Written by J Paul Tanner who is a a research field professor and a writer in the field of O.T. studies.

Its quite thorough and also relates it back the O.T. Concerning Numbers, Dueteronomy and Isaiah and how it relates to wilful sin and fire.

With regards to believers


Hebrews 10:30-31
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

10:30, 31 The author quotes two passages from Deut. 32 to support his claim that judgment belongs to the Lord and that God’s people are not excused from God’s judgment. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God because there is no other sacrifice for sin than Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross (v. 26), only a fearful expectation of judgment (v. 27). All sin not covered by the blood of Christ will result in great loss at the judgment seat (see 1 Cor. 3:15; 2 Cor. 5:10). NKJV study notes.

 

[Meggido]

Drats!!!.....I lost my salvation.....

No you did'nt, he is setting at the right hand of the Father....

Oh yeah...thanks

Forehead smack....

 

[BillG]

Drats!!!.....I lost my salvation.....

No you did'nt, he is setting at the right hand of the Father....

Oh yeah...thanks

Forehead smack....

Dont smack your forehead.
Let me do it.