Why does keeping seventh-day Sabbath = Salvation by works?

[Grandpa]

Now this is a situation now... first you say that we are free from the law... then you show me all the laws that we now have... what exactly is your standpoint?? You cant say that some people split the law into 10 commandments and other laws and that we are free from laws. Then you add on laws from the New Testament... are you not also splitting laws according to how you want it? Are we free from laws or not?

Christians are free from laws, but there is only one reason why.

Its because we abide in Christ. We are the Workmanship of God now.

Matthew 11:28 [FONT=&quot]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

[/FONT]The Lord Jesus gives us rest from our work at the law in order to be righteous before God.

John 15:5 [FONT=&quot]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

[/FONT]After we have received this Rest from Christ we continue to abide in Him for all of our Provision and blessing.

This is the much fruit;

Galatians 5:22-23
[FONT=&quot]22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Notice especially the first fruit of the Spirit listed...

Romans 13:9-10
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


The fruit of the Spirit is a gift from God. It is a part of Salvation, a part of abiding in Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:3-4
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.[/FONT]

 

[Grace777x70]

The commandment in the New Covenant ( the Old Covenant is a goner now ) is to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ."

From Him all things will be manifested as His life is bearing His fruit in and through us.

We don't live "by the keeping of" carnal commandments in the New Covenant - we live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ now. The law of love, the law of liberty, the law of faith ( the Law is not of faith ) - the law of Christ Himself.

We love because He has first loved us. It's descriptive of His life being in us - not in the following of a carnal commandment to obey.

John 15:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

Jesus is not commanding us to "manifest" love. The original commandment in John 15 is to "abide in Him".

Believing in what He has done and His love for us will release the love of God that is in us and that believing in Christ and "abiding/remaining/staying" in His love and grace towards us will cause love and His life to manifest in and through us.

Jesus' commandments are His enablements and are really descriptive of His life being manifested in us.

This right believing in Christ's love and work for us releases His life in us and fulfills all the intent of the Law which has the 10 commandments in it. We don't live by the 10 commandments in the New Covenant - we live by His life.

We can see Christ's life in the 10 commandments as He is the fulfillment and real substance of them as all scripture is profitable for us.

The 10 commandments in the Old Covenant which is now a goner ( for the Christian that is in Christ ) and obsolete because the true substance has come - Jesus Himself - as being all promises fulfilled in Christ and His life in us.

This is hugely different then following a carnal commandment as it is laid out in the Old Covenant.

 

[loveme1]

Christians are free from laws, but there is only one reason why.

Its because we abide in Christ. We are the Workmanship of God now.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

The Lord Jesus gives us rest from our work at the law in order to be righteous before God.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

After we have received this Rest from Christ we continue to abide in Him for all of our Provision and blessing.

This is the much fruit;

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Notice especially the first fruit of the Spirit listed...

Romans 13:9-10

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


The fruit of the Spirit is a gift from God. It is a part of Salvation, a part of abiding in Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:3-4

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Friends beware of Truth presented like the above.. I know we have to shorten posts but each of the above will edify better in their chapter.

You could take a Book and make a story up from a line here and a line there... all verses above are True but they each have a place in Scripture from where we learn from. Page upon page... and the Truth will unfold.

 

[Zen]

Can you be saved without being justified?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Exodus 24:8
And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.

God sprinkled the new covenant with the blood of Lord Jesus, it is an unbreakable oath which no one can ever remove.

John 1 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one

2 Corinthians 13:1
This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Salvation is from believing in Lord Jesus, nobody has to work for it.

Works prove faith and show obedience and get a person a reward in heaven, they are 2 different things.

 

[Grace777x70]

If Paul is telling us the truth when he says the Christian is not under the Law but under grace now, has died to the Law, is released from the Law.

( Which I do believe Paul is telling us the truth ). - Then how is our relationship to be to the law of Moses in regards to the "good" that is in the ten commandments from the Old Covenant?

Live "from" the 10 promises instead of "by" the 10 commandments because we are now in Christ in the New Covenant. It's in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and the grace of God which manifests His life in and through us that we live by now.

1) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will have no need for other gods because you have a loving Father who loves you deeply and unconditionally.

2) When you know Me ( Jesus ) ,and I live in you the idols in life will fade like mist in the sun.

3) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will never stop speaking My name to establish freedom - My name is Jesus.

4) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will cease from your own works and rely totally on what I have already done for you and find true Sabbath rest in Me.

5) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will be honored as fathers and mothers to nations.

6) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you,you will restore life.

7) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, you will experience deep authentic relationships which you will treasure.

8) When you know Me ( Jesus ) ,and I live in you, you will be established in abundance and generosity.

9) When you know Me ( Jesus ) ,and I live in youyou will be My witness.

10) When you know Me ( Jesus ) and I live in you, your love which is My love flowing in and through you for your neighbor will bring restoration to this world.

The 10 commandments are now 10 promises fulfilled in us through relationship with our loving Father because we are in Christ and the fruit of His life being manifested in and through us.

 

[Grandpa]

Friends beware of Truth presented like the above.. I know we have to shorten posts but each of the above will edify better in their chapter.

You could take a Book and make a story up from a line here and a line there... all verses above are True but they each have a place in Scripture from where we learn from. Page upon page... and the Truth will unfold.

Yes. Be careful.

Lest you come to Christ and find out what Christianity really is.

Ephesians 1:17-23
[FONT=&quot]17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.[/FONT]

 

[garee]

A different perspective

Because without parable the word of God spoke not, hiding the spiritual understanding from the lost we must look to the unseen (faith principle) or spiritual understanding I think the focus is more about eating and drinking(fasting) in a spiritual sense rather trying to make it fit a certain day of the week as a works rightousness .

Looking to the spiritual meaning of the parable found in John 6 ; unless a person eats the flesh and drinks the blood of Christ. Searching out the spiritual meaning of that parable can be helpful in coming to a proper conclusion …walking by faith (the unseen spiritual)

This would be in respect to the food Christ said the disciples knew not of. The food of doing the will of another .Free will to the believer. It can be called the meat of His word as Christ works in us to both will and perform His good pleasure. In that way we know we have been strengthened to do the will of another

The Sabbath a rest term which is not connected to any day, it is a day that God has set aside so that a person can go out with the gospel of salvation , the other days they were required to work to eat. People today are off work on different days of the week so that they can offer the true fast the kind that drives out the lying spirits as demons.

The true fast which Christ spoke of which did drive out the lying spirits as demons comes out be the gospel, the preaching of the cross. Lying spirits do not come out because some sit around a on a day when they can go out into the word holding out the gospel of peace .

Rather than focusing on a day, focusing on what that day that we can offers a fast, as an opportunity to serve the Lord would be the focus. Sabbath is not a time sensitive word it simply means "rest" with no other meaning attached to it.

What we are to rest from can give us a clue.

 

[Depleted]

I am very confused and need some information please.

I read an article this weekend that says keeping the seventh-day Sabbath (Saturday) holy is the same thing as Salvation by Works. My basic understanding of salvation by works is that we need to do something in order to be saved, as opposed to salvation being the free gift of God - salvation by faith.
Now I don't believe that we can work our way to heaven and fully believe that it is simply the Grace of God that allows anyone to be anything, so I don't subscribe to the salvation by works doctrine. However, my question is why do people equate keeping the seventh-day Sabbath holy (I am NOT talking about going to church, worshiping, etc, etc) to salvation by works?

All the arguments given for NOT keeping Saturday as Sabbath can all be used for not keeping Sunday.
Example:
They say in the New Testament, it is not commanded to keep Sabbath holy. Neither is it commanded to keep Sunday.
They say the apostles met on first day of the week. Well the apostles/disciples met on Saturday, and on Sunday and on other days of the week too. So we can't just choose what verses we want and verses to support both days can be found.

Adding to that, the website then follows up add on verses like Romans 14:5
"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."
and Colossians 2:16
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath."

And then uses these verses to substantiate why keeping seventh-day sabbath is salvation by works.
These verses specifically say that each one should be fully convinced in his own mind about what day to regard and also that we are not to pass judgement on keeping festivals and sabbaths.

Yet, are they not doing exactly that by judging those that keep the seventh-day Sabbath as a Sabbath and esteem that day as they are fully convinced in their minds? By calling it Salvation by works (the website called it Sabbatarian or something like that), they are doing the exact thing the verse tells us not to do by passing judgement on the day people have chosen to esteem.

By that same logic, all people who keep Sunday should be called Sundarians or something and they also should have the label of Salvation by works because they are keeping a day for worship which the New Testament does not tell us to do.

I just can't understand why the attack on the Saturday Sabbath and why it is viewed in this way, when using the same logic leads us to be able to say the exact same thing about those that keep Sunday. As The Word says, "“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." (Matt 7:1-2).

Any answers would be welcome as I am so confused by people who use logic in one way, but fail to see how using that same logic discredits their own standpoint.

Please also note, this is NOT about going to church, day of worship, how to keep Sabbath, 10 commandments, etc, etc...
The question is why is keeping the seventh-day sabbath considered to be Salvation by Works?

It's not so much attacking Seventh Day Sabbath as it is attacking Seventh-Day Adventists, who do teach that is the work that will get you to heaven.

 

[Depleted]

Friends beware of Truth presented like the above.. I know we have to shorten posts but each of the above will edify better in their chapter.

You could take a Book and make a story up from a line here and a line there... all verses above are True but they each have a place in Scripture from where we learn from. Page upon page... and the Truth will unfold.

Or you can make up your own "truth" without even bothering to base it off a book at all. And... good example you gave.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The Greek word for "law" means "principle or rule". The true Christian does not live by the law of Moses anymore which includes the 10 commandments.

Christians live by the life of Christ Himself who is in us - joined as one spirit forever. His life fulfills the intent of all the law of Moses.

3414. [FONT="Galatia Sil" !important]νόμος[/FONT] [FONT="Gentium" !important]nomos[/FONT] noun

Law, rule, principle.

Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary, The - The Complete Biblical Library Greek-English Dictionary – Lambda-Omicron.


The commandments of God in the New Covenant ( which is where Christians live from now - not the Old ) are stated by John.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

The same argument can go for the word law in Hebrew, it actually means instructions...

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

The commandment in the New Covenant ( the Old Covenant is a goner now ) is to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ."

From Him all things will be manifested as His life is bearing His fruit in and through us.

We don't live "by the keeping of" carnal commandments in the New Covenant - we live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ now. The law of love, the law of liberty, the law of faith ( the Law is not of faith ) - the law of Christ Himself.

We love because He has first loved us. It's descriptive of His life being in us - not in the following of a carnal commandment to obey.

John 15:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

Jesus is not commanding us to "manifest" love. The original commandment in John 15 is to "abide in Him".

Believing in what He has done and His love for us will release the love of God that is in us and that believing in Christ and "abiding/remaining/staying" in His love and grace towards us will cause love and His life to manifest in and through us.

Jesus' commandments are His enablements and are really descriptive of His life being manifested in us.

This right believing in Christ's love and work for us releases His life in us and fulfills all the intent of the Law which has the 10 commandments in it. We don't live by the 10 commandments in the New Covenant - we live by His life.

We can see Christ's life in the 10 commandments as He is the fulfillment and real substance of them as all scripture is profitable for us.

The 10 commandments in the Old Covenant which is now a goner ( for the Christian that is in Christ ) and obsolete because the true substance has come - Jesus Himself - as being all promises fulfilled in Christ and His life in us.

This is hugely different then following a carnal commandment as it is laid out in the Old Covenant.

So do we believe then love (and grace) is a Net Testament concept or do we believe that this was always the heart of God?

I believe this was always the heart of God but we corrupted the love part by looking at the letter of the law.

 

[loveme1]

Or you can make up your own "truth" without even bothering to base it off a book at all. And... good example you gave.

A friend of Grandpa? Not sure what you are saying to be honest. Do you have headlice?

 

[prove-all]

What we are to rest from can give us a clue

God promised use rest, but this has not been given to use yet.
The Sabbath [7th]day of week, pictures the 7th thousand years of man on earth.


The second coming is in actuality a continuation of the first.

Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me
to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted,
to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down.
And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

He stop reading just there, closed the book, and sat down?

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me
to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Isa 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,

And here is where He stopped reading in mid sentence.
Now the passage He quoted continues...

and [the day of vengeance] of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty
for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD,
that he might be glorified.

Isa 61:4 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations,
and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations.
Isa 61:5 And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall
be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers
of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their
portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.

He came the first time to complete Isa 61:1-2 but not all of verse 2.
When He returns, He will complete verse 2 and forward through verse 7.


At his return, This future time is the rest that he promises to give us.

 

[Grace777x70]

So do we believe then love (and grace) is a Net Testament concept or do we believe that this was always the heart of God?

I believe this was always the heart of God but we corrupted the love part by looking at the letter of the law.

I believe that the heart of God has always been the same which is love and grace and mercy.

The purpose of the law has been defined by Paul.

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.


The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that.

People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.

If someone wants to observe a particular day , festivals or eat or not eat some kinds of foods..etc - then they are free to do so. These have no bearing on one's salvation or righteousness as all that is based on the finished work of Christ.

It's where people are saying "You must observe these things or do these things in the Law or you are not obeying God and you are sinning" - that's where the twisting comes in and it is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

This is an anti-Christ belief system religion which has the "appearance" of good but it is really denying the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work. Hebrews 4:10

 

[Bogadile]

The religious mind is stuck on the flesh, its stuck on performing and doing and worrying.
That is why the self-appointed fruit inspectors stress themselves and the people around them into misery. I feel bad for them I really do, it is just sad when people get stuck in that. I do not know how to help those people all I can do is pray that God releases their mind from bondage, which is what I do with some of the people I know.

If any SDA is reading this I want you to genuinely think, is choosing to rest on the wrong day really the Mark of the beast, something that spells game over for you once it becomes mandatory? Think.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I believe that the heart of God has always been the same which is love and grace and mercy.

The purpose of the law has been defined by Paul.

Paul who knew the law better then anyone had this to say about the purpose of the law.


The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state - Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin - Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us - Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ - Gal 3:24

The law is good, holy and spiritual but we are in the flesh. Jesus fulfilled all the law! When we read the law we should be seeing Jesus in it. Jesus did not save us so that we could go back to the law.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus is how we live now, and the law of liberty in Christ Jesus and the law of love, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith - the just shall live by faith ). The law of Christ - Himself is how we live now.

But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

Christians are dead to the Law, been released from the Law and are NOT under the Law. It can't get any plainer than that.

People are free to do whatever they want in relation to the Law - it does not make one righteous nor is it for salvation.

If someone wants to observe a particular day , festivals or eat or not eat some kinds of foods..etc - then they are free to do so. These have no bearing on one's salvation or righteousness as all that is based on the finished work of Christ.

It's where people are saying "You must observe these things or do these things in the Law or you are not obeying God and you are sinning" - that's where the twisting comes in and it is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

This is an anti-Christ belief system religion which has the "appearance" of good but it is really denying the Lord Jesus Christ's finished work. Hebrews 4:10

We had this discussion before I know my dear brother.

I am going to take my family as an example here because I don't want to look like a dog chasing its tail. My wife is in a job where she has to work every second Saturday. Now we know what the law states about working on the Sabbath but this is the job God provided for her. We prayed about it, saw doors that opened in miraculous ways and this job is a testimony in itself for her.... but now she has to work on Saturdays.
Are we now complaining with God and walking around like we are being punished? No brother we still thank God for he is our provider.

The law is not bad. Matt actually took the time a few months ago and posted the law on CC and if we read through the law we will see God's characteristics. Our God is good and always was the God of love and grace but also through faith. Nothing has changed and by being obedient to the word of God we are not being legalistic.

God is also a God of order and if we make our religion free for all, there will be no guidelines. If there are no standards how can I teach somebody out of God's word if they are outside of his guidelines? What guidelines? God's word.

Jesus is the living Torah. He kept Torah so if we follow Him and his example we will also follow Torah but like it was supposed to be followed, in love and understanding.

God bless friends.

 

[Grace777x70]

We had this discussion before I know my dear brother.

I am going to take my family as an example here because I don't want to look like a dog chasing its tail. My wife is in a job where she has to work every second Saturday. Now we know what the law states about working on the Sabbath but this is the job God provided for her. We prayed about it, saw doors that opened in miraculous ways and this job is a testimony in itself for her.... but now she has to work on Saturdays.
Are we now complaining with God and walking around like we are being punished? No brother we still thank God for he is our provider.

The law is not bad. Matt actually took the time a few months ago and posted the law on CC and if we read through the law we will see God's characteristics. Our God is good and always was the God of love and grace but also through faith. Nothing has changed and by being obedient to the word of God we are not being legalistic.

God is also a God of order and if we make our religion free for all, there will be no guidelines. If there are no standards how can I teach somebody out of God's word if they are outside of his guidelines? What guidelines? God's word.

Jesus is the living Torah. He kept Torah so if we follow Him and his example we will also follow Torah but like it was supposed to be followed, in love and understanding.

God bless friends.

I agree with many things here as people are free in Christ to observe any day as they choose but the problem of living by the law is that one needs to do it all or they are guilty of it all.

We don't come to Christ to go back to living by the law. The law is a "shadow" of the real substance which is Christ Himself.

It would be like having a picture ( a shadow of her true self ) of your wife before you were married to her. Now you get married but in stead of "being with her" - you decide to go look at her picture everyday.

The very life of Christ in us is how we live now and it has nothing to do with "the carnal keeping of the law of Moses" in any capacity.

The law's purpose was to bring us to Christ Himself but now we have been released from the law, have died to the law and not under the law any more "so that" we could be joined to Another - Christ Himself.

Galatians 3:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Whythe Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Galatians 3:23-26 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

[SUP]26 [/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

A son of God because of faith in Christ Jesus - has nothing to do with the law other than to see Jesus has fulfilled it and the fruit of the spirit which is love will fulfill all the intent of the law without having anything to do with "keeping it".

There is no "free-for-all" for those that are led by the Spirit of God now in the New Covenant. We can trust the life of Christ Himself in us to do the right thing.

God's true word is Christ Himself. The true Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. The scriptures speak of Christ Himself and not Christ of the scriptures. Scriptures are not God but they speak of Him.

God has in these last days spoken to us in His Son "after" He had spoken to us by others in the Old Testament. Hebrews 1:1-3

God seën jou my kosbare broer. Alles is goed!

 

[sparkman]

I am very confused and need some information please.

I read an article this weekend that says keeping the seventh-day Sabbath (Saturday) holy is the same thing as Salvation by Works. My basic understanding of salvation by works is that we need to do something in order to be saved, as opposed to salvation being the free gift of God - salvation by faith.
Now I don't believe that we can work our way to heaven and fully believe that it is simply the Grace of God that allows anyone to be anything, so I don't subscribe to the salvation by works doctrine. However, my question is why do people equate keeping the seventh-day Sabbath holy (I am NOT talking about going to church, worshiping, etc, etc) to salvation by works?

All the arguments given for NOT keeping Saturday as Sabbath can all be used for not keeping Sunday.
Example:
They say in the New Testament, it is not commanded to keep Sabbath holy. Neither is it commanded to keep Sunday.
They say the apostles met on first day of the week. Well the apostles/disciples met on Saturday, and on Sunday and on other days of the week too. So we can't just choose what verses we want and verses to support both days can be found.

Adding to that, the website then follows up add on verses like Romans 14:5
"One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."
and Colossians 2:16
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath."

And then uses these verses to substantiate why keeping seventh-day sabbath is salvation by works.
These verses specifically say that each one should be fully convinced in his own mind about what day to regard and also that we are not to pass judgement on keeping festivals and sabbaths.

Yet, are they not doing exactly that by judging those that keep the seventh-day Sabbath as a Sabbath and esteem that day as they are fully convinced in their minds? By calling it Salvation by works (the website called it Sabbatarian or something like that), they are doing the exact thing the verse tells us not to do by passing judgement on the day people have chosen to esteem.

By that same logic, all people who keep Sunday should be called Sundarians or something and they also should have the label of Salvation by works because they are keeping a day for worship which the New Testament does not tell us to do.

I just can't understand why the attack on the Saturday Sabbath and why it is viewed in this way, when using the same logic leads us to be able to say the exact same thing about those that keep Sunday. As The Word says, "“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." (Matt 7:1-2).

Any answers would be welcome as I am so confused by people who use logic in one way, but fail to see how using that same logic discredits their own standpoint.

Please also note, this is NOT about going to church, day of worship, how to keep Sabbath, 10 commandments, etc, etc...
The question is why is keeping the seventh-day sabbath considered to be Salvation by Works?

There's nothing wrong with observing any particular day per Romans 14 if the person is observing it to God. Same thing with abstaining from certain foods. However, Judaizers INSIST that non-observers are in sin for non-observance.

Additionally, their theology often infers non-observant Christians are apostate or even false. For instance, Seventh Day Adventism teaches that non-observers are sinning and will be under the Mark of the Beast for non-observance in the end times. The Judaizer group I came from, the Armstrongites, don't even consider non-observers to be saved.

Usually there is some teaching amongst such groups that they have the apostolic faith or the "ancient way" and non-observers have lost the way, or are false. Sometimes it's connected with a claim that Christians who don't observe Sabbath are part of the Great Prostitute of Revelation 17.

Their teaching is often accompanied by other false doctrines such as denying the Trinity or the full deity of Jesus Christ, in the case of Armstrongites and some "Messianic" groups. Many of them are Arians. Some deny the inspiration of Paul's writings or look to extra-biblical sources of information.

I would not consider Sabbath-keeping to be "salvation by works" if the person is not claiming that keeping the Sabbath is a condition or requirement or necessary fruit of salvation or that non-observers are in sin. However, as an ex Sabbath observer, I will attest that flaky doctrines often accompany these groups, as well as a paranoid view of Christianity, often seeking to accuse non-observers of being apostate, etcetera. To be honest, almost every Sabbathkeeper I've met has some flakiness like that. They hide it for a while but ultimately it surfaces in their remarks.

 

[stillness]

Romains 14:5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. When we are honoring the Lord we enter into His rest. Its our freedom to honor Him from that place of rest everyday alike or to set a day apart, we have freedom. If you are still having trouble feel free to mentio nthere is no need for you to be troubled

 

[stillness]

Romains 14:5 One man esteemed one day above another: another esteemed every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. If you have trouble understanding or entering into rest in your spirit just let me know.