The millenium reign of Christ and Gog and Magog.

Marano · Jul 11, 2017

First of all I'd like to say I'm a historical premilleanist, I believe the in a post trib rapture, so I'd prefer to keep this discussion between like minded people, the truth of the millenium reign of Christ is to me very real and a precious doctrine, so if you're ammileanist or post milleanist I'd prefer if you didn't post on this thread, now if you're a dispensationalist you could still share your views.

Now with all that said, how do you view the order of events after the tribulation? There's the day of God's wrath when He pours out the seven vials of His wrath, and assumedly not all people die, and some mortal people stay alive for Christ's millenium or do you see it as everyone dies and Christ's millenium reign will be made up of ressureceted saints who went through the tribulation only:

Revelation 20:4-6New International Version (NIV)

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheadedbecause of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reignedwith Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

If you hold to the second view how do you explain Gog and Magog when Satan is released and goes out to deceive the nations:

Revelation 20:7-9New International Version (NIV)

The Judgment of Satan

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Who are these people who are alive and are not saints ressurected who are deceived by satan after the 1000 years? Could it be that there are people alive after the seven vials of God's wrath are poured out that are still in disbelief?

Also if you're a historic premilleanist how do you view the rapture? Do you see it as pre wrath, post wrath, no rapture at all or something else? I ask this so that we can more or less where everyone stands.

Denadii · Jul 11, 2017

Marano said:

First of all I'd like to say I'm a historical premilleanist, I believe the in a post trib rapture, so I'd prefer to keep this discussion between like minded people, the truth of the millenium reign of Christ is to me very real and a precious doctrine, so if you're ammileanist or post milleanist I'd prefer if you didn't post on this thread, now if you're a dispensationalist you could still share your views.

Now with all that said, how do you view the order of events after the tribulation? There's the day of God's wrath when He pours out the seven vials of His wrath, and assumedly not all people die, and some mortal people stay alive for Christ's millenium or do you see it as everyone dies and Christ's millenium reign will be made up of ressureceted saints who went through the tribulation only:

Revelation 20:4-6New International Version (NIV)

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheadedbecause of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reignedwith Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

If you hold to the second view how do you explain Gog and Magog when Satan is released and goes out to deceive the nations:

Revelation 20:7-9New International Version (NIV)

The Judgment of Satan

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Who are these people who are alive and are not saints ressurected who are deceived by satan after the 1000 years? Could it be that there are people alive after the seven vials of God's wrath are poured out that are still in disbelief?

Also if you're a historic premilleanist how do you view the rapture? Do you see it as pre wrath, post wrath, no rapture at all or something else? I ask this so that we can more or less where everyone stands.

Why do you want to ge through the Tribulation Period instead of being with God during all of that?

Marano · Jul 11, 2017

Denadii said:

It's not about what I want, but about what scripture teaches, it teaches we go through the tribulation so I concur with it, more to the topic what do you think?

Denadii · Jul 11, 2017

Marano said:

I think that you should get a different bible What are you going to do about the chip you will need to buy sell drive banking etc?

Marano · Jul 11, 2017

Denadii said:

I'm prepared to go through whatever is God's plan for our lives, again to the topic, what do you think? Forget this pre trib rapture thing and focus on the millenium.

Zen · Jul 11, 2017

KJV

Revelation 20:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Marano · Jul 11, 2017

Zen said:

KJV

Revelation 20:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Yeah, what are your views?

Locutus · Jul 11, 2017

Some already have the chip.

Plain as day on the shoulder.....

Luke 1:33 KJV And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Marano · Jul 11, 2017

Locutus said:

I take it you're ammilenialist? So you don't believe there's a literal 1000 year reign of Christ, so Gog and Magog could be anyone for you?

Zen · Jul 11, 2017

Marano said:

I guess according to this, post-tribulation premillennialism. At the second coming, the saints are raptured to be taken from the wrath of God, before coming back.

Denadii · Jul 11, 2017

Marano said:

One step at a time...I'll go pretrib Attend the marriage supper of the Lamb then come back with Him at the second coming after the tribulation Then I'll rule with Him in the millenium... You can take the short cut through the tribulation if you want

bluto · Jul 11, 2017

Denadii said:

Here you go again denadii, "ASSUMING" instead of thinking things through. Nobody in their right mind wants to be confronted by the anti-christ and go through the tribulation. Like marano stated, this is what the scriptures teach. Now I know you disagree but we both can't be right. Secondly, Christians down through the ages have disagreed as to when Jesus Christ is coming back either pre, mid or post but the fact remains that He is coming back.

Oh yea denadii, you also said this? "I think that you should get a different bible What are you going to do about the chip you will need to buy sell drive banking etc?" What do you care? According to you pretribulationist your going to be in heaven feasting on Lamb chops with Jesus at the marriage supper while the rest of us are down here are going through the tribulation. Does that really make sense to you denadii? Your up there eating with Jesus and asking for toothpicks while all hell is breaking loose down here in this upholstered cesspool we call earth.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Marano · Jul 11, 2017

Zen said:

You and bluto seem to be with me on this, what about Gog and Magog?

Zen · Jul 11, 2017

Marano said:

I don't know who they are but it's not something to worry about.

prove-all · Jul 11, 2017

-Today’s cities will be destroyed (e.g. Ezekiel 6:6; 12:20)

The living Christ is coming as “King of kings and Lord of lords” (Revelation 19:11-21),
to put down the rebellion of warring nations (Revelation 17:14), and establish God’s
world-ruling government over all nations (Daniel 2:44; 7:9, 13-14, 18, 22, 27; Isaiah 9:7).

He pictured Himself as the young nobleman going away (to heaven) to be coronated,
and to return to Earth (Luke 19:12-27). He will then be on the Earth—Zechariah 14:3-4,
1 Thessalonians 4:16. “If I go and prepare a place [position, office, habitation] for you,
I will come again, and receive you unto myself, that where I am, there ye may be also”

In vision, John saw the angels praising Christ at His coming to rule this Earth. They said,
“We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come;
because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned” (Revelation 11:17)
The seventh angel sounds-Kingdoms of this current world become Christs (Rev 11:15)

-Will commit thy government into his hand, established with judgement and jutice.
a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem,and to the house of Judah (Isaiah 22:21)

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of
David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice
from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. (Isaiah 9:7)

Apostle John, in vision, saw a preview of the beginning of that rule and world government
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them…and
they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” (Revelation 20:4).(Isaiah 11:2-4)

Matthew 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from
another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep[changed beings] from the goats[mortals]:

He separates the sheep (those who had repented, believe, and receive His Holy Spirit)
from the goats (those mortals who rebel).There will then be two kinds of beings on Earth
—humans, and those made divine [changed] at the first resurrection.

Jesus said no one could see or enter into the Kingdom of God until he is born of God
(John 3:3-5). He made plain when one is born of God, he, just as God is, will be spirit.

We have now, as humans, been born of flesh—and therefore we are flesh. But God is
spirit (John 4:24), and when we are born of God—of the Spirit—we shall be spirit
(John 3:6-8). Now, we are earthy—of the earth (1?Corinthians 15:48). We are “flesh
and blood” from the earth—from matter (ver.50)—yet flesh and blood humans cannot
inherit the Kingdom of God . But, as we have borne the image of the earthy—mortal
—human—we shall, when born of God, bear the image of the heavenly—that is, spirit.

Jesus Christ is the firstborn of many brethren (Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:18)
who shall be born of God by a “resurrection” (John 5:25-29; 6:39, 40, 44).

Jesus said: “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will
I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron…” (Rev 2:26-27).

And again, “To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne [on this Earth]”
(Revelation 3:21; Luke 1:32-33). And, “…we shall reign on the earth” (Revelation 5:10).

-A Kingdom appointed, made ruler over some cities.

And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;(Luke 22:29)
Some resurrected saints will rule over 10 cities, some over five (Luke 19:17-19)

-the meek shall inherit the earth
Matthew 5:5,Psalms 37:11, Psalms 22:26, 37:9, 22,29
Psalms 25:13 (KJV)
His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.

8Thou didst cause judgment to be heard from heaven; the earth feared, and was still,
9When God arose to judgment, to save all the meek of the earth. Selah.
10Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.

great tribulation Saints,

-The time frame day and night are still used on earth.(Revelation 7:15)

Revelation 7:14-17
Those arrayed in white robes-come out of great tribulation-washed by blood of the Lamb
hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

As the resurrected Christ ascended to heaven in clouds, so He shall return to Earth
in clouds (Acts 1:9-11; Matthew 24:30). Just as He is returning (1Thes 4:14-17),
the dead in Christ—those who have received and been led by God’s Holy Spirit
(Romans 8:11, 14), will rise in a gigantic resurrection, made immortal—including
all the prophets of old (Luke 13:28). Those who have the Spirit of God, then living,
shall be instantaneously changed from mortal to immortal (1?Corinthians 15:50-54)
and, together with those resurrected, shall rise to meet the descending glorified Christ
(1 Thessalonians 4:17) in the clouds in the air. They shall be with Him, where He is,
forever (John 14:3). They shall—with Him—come down out of the clouds, and stand
with Him, therefore, that very same day, on the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4-5).

(2 Corinthians 6:2). It should read “a day of salvation,” not “the” day or [only day]
(quoted from Isaiah 49:8, where it is a not the).

Jesus said that no man who ever lived was greater than John the Baptist.
Yet, even the least in the resurrected Kingdom will be greater (Matthew 11:11)

prove-all · Jul 11, 2017

After human misrule causes great tribulation that almost wipes out civilization,
Jesus Christ will return to Earth to establish His rule. Christ will be Unwelcome.

The nations will be angry at His coming (Revelation 11:15 with 11:18), and the
military forces will actually attempt to fight Him to destroy Him! (Revelation 17:14).

the plague wherewith the [Eternal] will smite all the people [armies] that have fought
against Jerusalem; (verse 12) Their flesh,their eyes ,and tongue shall consume away..

The day of man, swayed, deceived, misled by Satan for 6,000 years, is over.Rev.20:1-3,
Ironic that the devil will be forced into rest for 1000 years, from decieving the nations.

The rebellious nature of man.“A new heart also will I give you … (Eze 36:26-27, 33
I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded”

No one will be deceived any longer. But “the earth shall be full of the knowledge of
the [Eternal], as the waters cover the sea” (Isaiah 11:9).

God’s law and the Word of the Eternal shall go forth from Zion, spreading over the
whole Earth (Isaiah 2:3).God’s Holy Spirit shall flow out from Jerusalem (Zech. 14:8).

“But there the glorious [Eternal] will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams;
wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby. For the
Eternal is our judge, the [Eternal] is our lawgiver, the Eternal is our king;he will save us..

“But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the
[Eternal] shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted
above the hills; and people shall flow unto it” (Micah 4:1).

the [Eternal] is our lawgiver -With only one Church—one religion—one faith—
Jesus rebukes strong nations- they destroy there weapons -no wars(Isaiah 2:4,Micah 4:3

“And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of
the [Eternal], and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways,
and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion [the Church], and the
word of the [Eternal] from Jerusalem.

-All will speak the same language, a pure language with one consent (Zephaniah 3:9).

God says, “For then will turn I to the people a pure language, that they may all call
upon the name of the [Eternal], to serve him with one consent” (Zephaniah 3:9).

-God made the moon for seasons Psalms 104:19 , again-Gods calander run off the moon
will be used, not the sun as todays calander- the Sabbath for man, or all flesh (Isaiah 66:23)
The Lord hath done this (Lam. 2:17), He allowed the enemy to change times. (Daniel 7:25)
but he will fix this at his comming. 1 Samuel 2:10 - Sabbaths- Zechariah 14:17

-God compares disease and sickness with sins and forgiven their iniquity

“And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein
shall be forgiven their iniquity” (Isaiah 33:21-22, 24).

“Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. Say to them that are
of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance,
even God with a recompence; he will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind
shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then shall the lame man
leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing…” (Isaiah 35:3-6).

Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily

-They will rebuild and repair the waste cities to be inhabited (Isaiah 54:3; 61:4)

And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt
raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called,
The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. (Isaiah 58:12)

God chose Jerusalem (1 Kings 8:53) shall choose Jerusalem again (Zech. 2:12)

-the Lords inheritance-city of Judah-Jacob-Israel
And the Lord shall [inherit Judah] his portion in [the holy land],

Psalms 79:1 (KJV)
O God, the heathen are come into thine inheritance;
thy holy temple have they defiled; they have laid Jerusalem on heaps.

For what portion of God is there from above? and what inheritance of the
Almighty from on high? (Job 31:2) Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord:
and the fruit of the womb is his reward. (Psalms 127:3,1 Kings 8:51,53, 11:13,
Psalms 33:12,74:2,Deuteronomy 4:20,

Jacob is the lot of his inheritance-Deuteronomy 32:9,
Israel is the rod of his inheritance-Jeremiah 10:16 , Jeremiah 51:19

-will take his inheritance in the sight of the heathen. Ezekiel 22:16
the Lord will not cast off his people, neither forsake his inheritance. Psalms 94:14

the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok (Ezekiel 48:11
-Aaron and the Levites have no inheritance in the land. Numbers 18:20
The Lord God of Israel is their inheritanceDeuteronomy 10:9,14:27,18:2,
Joshua 13:14, 33

Numbers 18:20 (KJV)
And the Lord spake unto Aaron, Thou shalt have no inheritance in their land,
neither shalt thou have any part among them: I am thy part and thine inheritance
among the children of Israel.

-the Levites,The Lord God of Israel was [is] their inheritance.
Deuteronomy 18:1 , Joshua 13:33,Isaiah 66:21, Deuteronomy 12:9 (KJV)

For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance,
which the Lord your God giveth you.

Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
an heritage of the Lord: His inheritance. 1 Peter 5:3

—Jerusalem, the future headquarters city of the Earth (Haggai 2:6-8)
Gods latter house shall be greater than of the former (Haggai 2:9)

Only Jerusalem is builded as a city that is uniquely describes as being
“compact together,” maybe referring to some kind of high-rises. Psalm 122:3

-Land Beneath Sea Reclaimed , men will go over dryshod” (Isaiah 11:15)
The world’s gold and silver reserves are mostly under the seas, vast wealth there is.

The abundance of the sea shall be converted unto Jerusalem (Isaiah 60:5).
The forces H2428 [wealth, margin] of the Gentiles shall come unto thee”

Beautiful decorations for the capital building, the temple in which our Christ will dwell.
a prophecy for now “Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. (Malachi 3:8-10)

Growing populations in all nations are rapidly outstripping the ability of the world
to sustain them. God will make most of the Earth cultivatable and liveable.

God who formed the hills and mountains, that the huge earthquakes yet to come
which God says, “The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt…” (Nahum 1:5),
will re-shape in a way rehabilitation of the land surfaces.(eg. Rev 16:18, Zech. 14:4.)

-A new sharp threshing instrument -the mountains made small, the hills made as chaff,
the wind shall carry them away and the worldwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt
rejoice in the Lord, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel. (Isaiah 41:14-16

-If any thrist and seek water, the God of Israel will not forsake them. (verse 17-18)

He will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys:
I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water.

-Trees planted and growing-consider and understand that the [Eternal] hath
done this, and the Holy One of Israel hath created it” . (verse 19-20)

-Pure Water—Fertile Deserts where trees grow (Isaiah 35)
Deserts becoming green, fertile, garden lands of trees, shrubs,
bubbling springs and brooks; mountains brought low, and made inhabitable.

The streets of Jerusalem -Social atmosphere there.

-“Joy and gladness-thanksgiving-the voice of melody(Isaiah 51:3)
-Where old men and old women dwell -full of boys and girls playing (Zechariah 8:4-5)

The voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bridethe voice of them that shall say,
Praise the Lord of hosts; for his mercy endureth for ever …” (Jeremiah 33:10-11)

-Waste cities filled with flocks of men (Ezekiel 36:37-38)
-Cities overflow with prosperity (Zechariah 1:17)

-Cities being crime-free , dwell safely-none be made afried (Ezekiel 34:28)
-No more Violence, nor wasting, nor destruction (Isaiah 60:18)

-Build the waste cities-fresh produce-drink there own wine-farming (Amos 9:14)
-Equitable property distribution-own vine and fig tree-none afraid (Micah 4:4-Lev25)

-Desolate land shall be tilled - will be like the garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:34-35)
The population Explosion of today,and food shortage will be all solved for man.
-Cities as being very social “filled with flocks of men” (Ezekiel 36:36-38)

-There will be Shepherds and local animal husbandry (Jer. 33:12)

-Superhighways between major cities (Isaiah 19:23)

5And the Lord will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her
assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night:
for upon all the glory shall be a defence. 6And there shall be a tabernacle for a
shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert
from storm and from rain. (Isaiah 4:5-6)

dwelling place of mount Zion (Isaiah 18:7, Psalms 48:2
Those that fight against mount Zion (Isaiah 29:8)

-shall come to pass whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered:

31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood,
before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come.
32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord
shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance,
as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.

The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. (Isaiah 14:7)
God has spoken it, and He is not one to go back on His word (Isaiah 55:11).

John146 · Jul 11, 2017

Marano said:

I'm not quite prepared to face beheading or have my children's head sawed off if I don't take the mark.

Denadii · Jul 11, 2017

Zen said:

Gog and Magog are Russia and China You can find a lot about that in the chronicles of Marco Polo...A super boring history

Denadii · Jul 11, 2017

John146 said:

So what do you plan to do? Take the mark?

bluto · Jul 11, 2017

Denadii said:

What is the "mark" denadii? Do you know?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

The millenium reign of Christ and Gog and Magog.

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