Catholic believe pope is infallible
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Yes.
1. Jesus DID CALL PETER THE ROCK.
This has pretty much been established by Greek scholars. They even considered the POSITION of how they were standing.
Jesus did mean to begin a Church and spread His ideas of Christianity.
2. Jesus gave ONLY Peter the Keys.
The Keys represented authority.
Jesus gave Peter the authority to continue in His work.
1. Jesus DID CALL PETER THE ROCK.
This has pretty much been established by Greek scholars. They even considered the POSITION of how they were standing.
Jesus did mean to begin a Church and spread His ideas of Christianity.
2. Jesus gave ONLY Peter the Keys.
The Keys represented authority.
Jesus gave Peter the authority to continue in His work.
Jesus did not give the keys of the kingdom to only Peter. That is a catholic tradition teaching that has no merit. Jesus called Peter a little stone which is different than a massive rock in Greek.
It's funny about Greek - you can find a "Greek scholar" in every denomination to say that the Greek agrees with their church teachings on a certain subject.
Some people have mistakenly interpreted this passage to say that Peter was the foundation on which Christ would build His church. However, that would violate many scriptures that state that Jesus is the “chief corner stone”.
Two different Greek words are used for “Peter” and “rock” respectively in this verse. The word used for “Peter” means “rock” but signifies “a detached stone or boulder” (Vine’s Expository Dictionary). In contrast, the word translated “rock” signifies a massive rock; that certainly refers to Jesus, the “chief corner stone.”
Jesus did not say that he was going to build His church on Peter - what religious nonsense. Jesus said that He would build His church based on the revelation that Jesus is the Christ - the son of the living God that Peter had just spoken about.
Matthew 16:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matthew 16:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
The keys are enforcing and bringing into this earth the things that are already established in heaven. "Your kingdom come - Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
It is not Peter. My goodness - how religion always gets the things of God and of Christ backwards and puts man himself/herself as the center of things.
It's funny about Greek - you can find a "Greek scholar" in every denomination to say that the Greek agrees with their church teachings on a certain subject.
Some people have mistakenly interpreted this passage to say that Peter was the foundation on which Christ would build His church. However, that would violate many scriptures that state that Jesus is the “chief corner stone”.
Two different Greek words are used for “Peter” and “rock” respectively in this verse. The word used for “Peter” means “rock” but signifies “a detached stone or boulder” (Vine’s Expository Dictionary). In contrast, the word translated “rock” signifies a massive rock; that certainly refers to Jesus, the “chief corner stone.”
Jesus did not say that he was going to build His church on Peter - what religious nonsense. Jesus said that He would build His church based on the revelation that Jesus is the Christ - the son of the living God that Peter had just spoken about.
Matthew 16:16 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Matthew 16:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] "I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
The keys are enforcing and bringing into this earth the things that are already established in heaven. "Your kingdom come - Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
It is not Peter. My goodness - how religion always gets the things of God and of Christ backwards and puts man himself/herself as the center of things.
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you sad key mean authority.
only peter have Authority to continue His work
it is mean paul did not have authority to work for the Lord.
FranC
this is what I believe.
Key made to open the door.
how to open the door of heaven
the only way to open the door is faith in Jesus
that mean every body that have a faith in Jesus, have a key, not only Peter.
we that believe the faith have authority to do His/Jesus's work to spread the gospel.
imagin if only Peter, for 2000 year after his death, no more evangelism
only peter have Authority to continue His work
it is mean paul did not have authority to work for the Lord.
FranC
this is what I believe.
Key made to open the door.
how to open the door of heaven
the only way to open the door is faith in Jesus
that mean every body that have a faith in Jesus, have a key, not only Peter.
we that believe the faith have authority to do His/Jesus's work to spread the gospel.
imagin if only Peter, for 2000 year after his death, no more evangelism
Grace,
I can find a GREEK SCHOLAR in every denomination who will think as he does....?
Most scholars believe what I posted. Check it out. You love Greek.
So, we're not supposed to believe them, but we're to believe YOU.
I think everyone here knows all about the little stone and the big stone.
Are we still doing kindergarten??
Can you look Beyond your prejudices and see the truth?
Jesus is the Cornerstone.
How does the rest of the Church get built?
If there was no official Church, do you think Christianity would still be around today.
You're Always mentioning religious nonsense.
If it weren't for RELIGION, we would have no Christianity.
Have you studied early Christianity?
What do you think would have happened to it without the Church?
What would happen today without our churches that we attend?
You believe we humans, with all our love and togetherness would be able to hold everything together?
Please rethink your position.
It makes no sense.
I can find a GREEK SCHOLAR in every denomination who will think as he does....?
Most scholars believe what I posted. Check it out. You love Greek.
So, we're not supposed to believe them, but we're to believe YOU.
I think everyone here knows all about the little stone and the big stone.
Are we still doing kindergarten??
Can you look Beyond your prejudices and see the truth?
Jesus is the Cornerstone.
How does the rest of the Church get built?
If there was no official Church, do you think Christianity would still be around today.
You're Always mentioning religious nonsense.
If it weren't for RELIGION, we would have no Christianity.
Have you studied early Christianity?
What do you think would have happened to it without the Church?
What would happen today without our churches that we attend?
You believe we humans, with all our love and togetherness would be able to hold everything together?
Please rethink your position.
It makes no sense.
The key in the O.T. gave authority.
Then we could understand it however we would like to. I have nothing against this.
However, let me just say that even in a corporation or any business, there must be a LEADER, a HEAD, ONE WHO IS IN CHARGE. Otherwise, the company cannot exist. If her are two partners, it's Always worse. You know the bible, I'm sure you remember that Paul and Peter had an argument about food, one had to be right and one had to be wrong.
Jesus gave the Keys to heaven to Peter, Not to Paul and not to us.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
THE KEY OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID
The first mention of the key of the house of David is found in the book of Isaiah, in a description of the duties of Eliakim, the royal chamberlain of King Hezekiah of Judah:
Isa 22:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
Isa 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
The key of the house of David is upon his shoulder? What does that mean? Let Isaiah explain. Speaking about Jesus, Isaiah says:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Then we could understand it however we would like to. I have nothing against this.
However, let me just say that even in a corporation or any business, there must be a LEADER, a HEAD, ONE WHO IS IN CHARGE. Otherwise, the company cannot exist. If her are two partners, it's Always worse. You know the bible, I'm sure you remember that Paul and Peter had an argument about food, one had to be right and one had to be wrong.
Jesus gave the Keys to heaven to Peter, Not to Paul and not to us.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
THE KEY OF THE HOUSE OF DAVID
The first mention of the key of the house of David is found in the book of Isaiah, in a description of the duties of Eliakim, the royal chamberlain of King Hezekiah of Judah:
Isa 22:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
Isa 22:21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
The key of the house of David is upon his shoulder? What does that mean? Let Isaiah explain. Speaking about Jesus, Isaiah says:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
There is nothing wrong in deciding themes so that people can be focused on God and come closer to God. However, I don't find this necessary.
The problem is not the theme. The problem is when liberty is taken to add something to the theme, that is not at all from the Bible. Please read the words of the Pope: The Holy Year will open on 8 December 2015, the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception. This liturgical feast day recalls God’s action from the very beginning of the history of mankind. After the sin of Adam and Eve, God did not wish to leave humanity alone in the throes of evil. And so he turned his gaze to Mary, holy and immaculate in love (cf. Eph 1:4), choosing her to be the Mother of man’s Redeemer.
Now, when did God turn his gaze to Mary? This is false teaching by the Pope. The verse, Eph 1:4 has been quoted out of context, and does not support what the Pope says. This is what I have a problem with. People distorting the scriptures in order to promote extra biblical concepts.
The Pharisees had similarly invented traditions in order to uphold the Law, and to make sure the Law was obeyed. However, the traditions became more important than the precepts of the Law, and the fundamental teachings of the Law were forgotten. Traditions almost always work in exactly the opposite direction that they were designed to work. Therefore the Pharisees faced the wrath of Jesus. This is exactly what is happening in the Catholic Church. People go through all kinds of tedious traditions and pilgrimages, but the heart seldom changes. Yes, there are exceptions I would say. However, the power of the Word of God in changing hearts is underestimated and even forgotten.
If anything at all has the backing of the hand of God, it is obedience to the Word of God. Therefore I don't see the necessity for themes and traditions. Themes are good, no problem, but the Word of God has the power to change the thoughts and attitudes of the heart(Heb 4:12). Holy Doors may not achieve what the Holy Bible can. Why not train people to carry their Bibles and read their Bibles daily?
The problem is not the theme. The problem is when liberty is taken to add something to the theme, that is not at all from the Bible. Please read the words of the Pope: The Holy Year will open on 8 December 2015, the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception. This liturgical feast day recalls God’s action from the very beginning of the history of mankind. After the sin of Adam and Eve, God did not wish to leave humanity alone in the throes of evil. And so he turned his gaze to Mary, holy and immaculate in love (cf. Eph 1:4), choosing her to be the Mother of man’s Redeemer.
Now, when did God turn his gaze to Mary? This is false teaching by the Pope. The verse, Eph 1:4 has been quoted out of context, and does not support what the Pope says. This is what I have a problem with. People distorting the scriptures in order to promote extra biblical concepts.
The Pharisees had similarly invented traditions in order to uphold the Law, and to make sure the Law was obeyed. However, the traditions became more important than the precepts of the Law, and the fundamental teachings of the Law were forgotten. Traditions almost always work in exactly the opposite direction that they were designed to work. Therefore the Pharisees faced the wrath of Jesus. This is exactly what is happening in the Catholic Church. People go through all kinds of tedious traditions and pilgrimages, but the heart seldom changes. Yes, there are exceptions I would say. However, the power of the Word of God in changing hearts is underestimated and even forgotten.
If anything at all has the backing of the hand of God, it is obedience to the Word of God. Therefore I don't see the necessity for themes and traditions. Themes are good, no problem, but the Word of God has the power to change the thoughts and attitudes of the heart(Heb 4:12). Holy Doors may not achieve what the Holy Bible can. Why not train people to carry their Bibles and read their Bibles daily?
hi franC.
to apply out to nt is tricky.
1. You said Jesus hired Peter as a leader. Jesus not interested to hire leader
matt 23:10Verse 10. - Neither be ye called masters; καθηγηταί: leaders, guides. This is just what the Pharisees claimed to be
2. Originally God not interested to hire a King for Israel. But Israel mad and want a King like other nations, God want to lead by Himself through prophet. Prophet not make decisions, only do what God decide. That why in this case we not use it as a reference.
3. Look the Background what happen before Jesus give a key
Jesus ask them who I Am.
peter answeredyou are Christ Son of God. This is the key to open the heaven door, when you accept Jesus as a Christ in to your heart
than Jesus give the key.
so the key is not authority to be a leader, since Jesus not interested hire a leader, the key is to open the door of heaven
is accepting Jesus.
matt 16
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
to apply out to nt is tricky.
1. You said Jesus hired Peter as a leader. Jesus not interested to hire leader
matt 23:10Verse 10. - Neither be ye called masters; καθηγηταί: leaders, guides. This is just what the Pharisees claimed to be
2. Originally God not interested to hire a King for Israel. But Israel mad and want a King like other nations, God want to lead by Himself through prophet. Prophet not make decisions, only do what God decide. That why in this case we not use it as a reference.
3. Look the Background what happen before Jesus give a key
Jesus ask them who I Am.
peter answeredyou are Christ Son of God. This is the key to open the heaven door, when you accept Jesus as a Christ in to your heart
than Jesus give the key.
so the key is not authority to be a leader, since Jesus not interested hire a leader, the key is to open the door of heaven
is accepting Jesus.
matt 16
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
The doctrine of infabillity of pope is exist read this link
https://www.catholic.com/tract/papal-infallibility
https://www.catholic.com/tract/papal-infallibility
No infants were baptized in the Book of Acts, as far as I have read. Baptism was never meant for infants.
To illustrate my point, imagine if the WHO issues a requirement that all adults must be vaccinated against an particular virus. Now, the following day, the WHO releases a statement stating that all households in a particular town were successfully vaccinated! Would we assume that infants were vaccinated as well? Obviously not, because the vaccine was meant for adults only.
Similarly, baptism (as it is taught all over the Book of Acts) was not meant for infants. Taking particular verses in isolation and formulating a doctrine based on these few verses is dangerous. One needs to look at ALL verses concerning baptism.
Infant baptism originated more from a strategy than from a teaching.
To illustrate my point, imagine if the WHO issues a requirement that all adults must be vaccinated against an particular virus. Now, the following day, the WHO releases a statement stating that all households in a particular town were successfully vaccinated! Would we assume that infants were vaccinated as well? Obviously not, because the vaccine was meant for adults only.
Similarly, baptism (as it is taught all over the Book of Acts) was not meant for infants. Taking particular verses in isolation and formulating a doctrine based on these few verses is dangerous. One needs to look at ALL verses concerning baptism.
Infant baptism originated more from a strategy than from a teaching.
Actually, Jackson123 is right.
There was a time when the Catholic Church stated that anyone outside the Church was lost.
You seem to know the Catholic Church's doctrine...do you know that this is no longer true?
CCC 1271
So the Catholic Chuch DID change a very important statement of theirs which was ex-cathedra.
Also, BEFORE 1917 persons that were divorced were not allowed to enter a Church.
After 1917 and prior to Vatican Council II, they could participate in a Liturgy, but not receive communion.
Today, divorced and remarried couples are allowed to receive communion under certain conditions.
So, yes, the Catholic Church does change its position on important doctrine.
It does make one wonder IF the Pope is indeed infallible.
There was a time when the Catholic Church stated that anyone outside the Church was lost.
You seem to know the Catholic Church's doctrine...do you know that this is no longer true?
CCC 1271
So the Catholic Chuch DID change a very important statement of theirs which was ex-cathedra.
Also, BEFORE 1917 persons that were divorced were not allowed to enter a Church.
After 1917 and prior to Vatican Council II, they could participate in a Liturgy, but not receive communion.
Today, divorced and remarried couples are allowed to receive communion under certain conditions.
So, yes, the Catholic Church does change its position on important doctrine.
It does make one wonder IF the Pope is indeed infallible.
Oh come on Jesus did not call Peter the Rock. Jesus called Peter a little stone. Jesus said He would build His church on Himself not poor old Peter. If Peter were here today he would slap anyone who made such a statement up alongside their head.
The keys are figurative? Scripture is the keys to opening the kingdom of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The keys are figurative? Scripture is the keys to opening the kingdom of God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger