This is the Dividing Line on BDF

[BillG]

We're called to obey what? The 10 commandments? The 600+ levitical law?

I believe we are called to obey THE Gospel. Once we are born again WE ARE HIS KIDS!!! We are a NEW CREATION. Born of the Spirit.
Can Any child do good works to become YOUR child? Or are they YOUR children by BIRTH or adoption? And once they BECOME YOUR OWN child is there ANYTHING that do or say that would make them no longer your special child?

I don't know how anyone can peruse the boards and make the comment that NO ONE is advocating that works save you.

One thread ALONE has 18000 posts that would make that remark absurd.

Sorry for the bluntness.

Its funny really how some people think.
Actually it's quite sad.

My concept of God was "Behave and obey and all is good, if you don't I'm gonna smack ya, if that don't work then your no longer my kid" (Childhood experiences do that)

Now having 4 kids of my own I have come to realise that is not the case.
My kids are my kids. That will never change.
Even when they get it wrong and do not obey.
I try my best to be like my Father in heaven and reveal him to my kids, teach them his ways.

Yet when they get it wrong, still my kids, still love them deeply, would never reject them but will say "The choices you make will have a consequence, I can't force you to make a choice but if you want to talk to me about it I will let you know what I think is best"

Truth is when they mess it up, still my kids and I will step in and help.

 

[BillG]

We're called to obey what? The 10 commandments? The 600+ levitical law?

I believe we are called to obey THE Gospel. Once we are born again WE ARE HIS KIDS!!! We will then be transformed by the Holy Spirit to follow HIS LAW that We love Him with all our heart strength mind and soul, and love our neighbor as yourself. We are a NEW CREATION. Born of the Spirit.
Can Any child do good works to become YOUR child? Or are they YOUR children by BIRTH or adoption? And once they BECOME YOUR OWN child is there ANYTHING that do or say that would make them no longer your special child?

I don't know how anyone can peruse the boards and make the comment that NO ONE is advocating that works save you.

One thread ALONE has 18000 posts that would make that remark absurd.

Sorry for the bluntness.

Good post....

 

[miknik5]

The BIBLE is a well-fitted picture and puzzle and parallel pointing us to CHRIST

Not allegory
these things actually did hapoen
you think GOD didn't lay down these very situations so that we would know and understand that HE in
HIS GRACE provided us sign upon sign (because HE knows our limited humanity...that we ever and always need visible signs to understand what is hidden and invisible) all so that we would come to know HIM
snd that all that is hidden in HIS WORD was to bring us to THE REVELATION of THE TRUTH all found visibly and clearly in HIS SO. and. Kesy

 

[Meggido]

Who teaches this stuff.. You can not grow without bearing fruit, you just remain stagnant, I have been to many a church, listened to teachers on TV read many books, even listen to people come and go in here, And I have never heard this "benefits based theology" as you put it..

would be good ot know who they are, so I can study them more, I like to study those who believe different so we can know them and not make the same mistake..

Look around EG, it is everywhere...

Benefits based theology is even more covert than word of faith/prosperity movement false teaching...it is masked under the veil of elevating grace over Jesus Christ....

 

[miknik5]

Its funny really how some people think.
Actually it's quite sad.

My concept of God was "Behave and obey and all is good, if you don't I'm gonna smack ya, if that don't work then your no longer my kid" (Childhood experiences do that)

Now having 4 kids of my own I have come to realise that is not the case.
My kids are my kids. That will never change.
Even when they get it wrong and do not obey.
I try my best to be like my Father in heaven and reveal him to my kids, teach them his ways.

Yet when they get it wrong, still my kids, still love them deeply, would never reject them but will say "The choices you make will have a consequence, I can't force you to make a choice but if you want to talk to me about it I will let you know what I think is best"

Truth is when they mess it up, still my kids and I will step in and help.

GOD is better than an earthly father

and HE will not pick and choose and compare one disobedient child over and against and by another disobedient child

all have disobeyed
all have sinned


Romans (?)

"To be just when HE judges and the justifier of all whose faith is in HIS SON"

 

[Meggido]

Joshua didn't really lay a physical hand to defeating the walls of Jericho sir

He walked around and around and around seven times and then when the trumpet was blown then the massive construction was brought down

stop playing semantics mik, it is your fall back and it is a bore...

 

[miknik5]

stop playing semantics mik, it is your fall back and it is a bore...

That's okay meggido


i have learned to say whatever I have been given to say

and not to worry too much about it

 

[miknik5]

Now are you ready to go first and announce your most righteous and good works?

please forgive me if I don't follow suit though


What would be the purposei of my announcing my works?

for your praise?


Im really not interested in man's judgement at all
i just don't really care how I am judged by men


But I would like to say thank you for revealing your hidden agenda
im really not emotionally distraught by it

i have learned that claiming oneself to be innocent as a dove and being innocent as a dove are two very different things

 

[PeterJens]

Really not helpful peter

This is what happens if you let the toxic waste of sin stay in your life.

Jesus came to die on the cross because sin kills people, kills families, kills friends, kills
wives, husbands, parents, children, bosses, grand parents, old, young, rich, poor,
healthy, ill, sad, happy, it is our enemy, the curse we wallow in and call into our hearts
and embrace as if it is the only reality of real value.

Then those who claim to embrace Christ and liberty say it does not matter, it is not
an issue, it can be buried under a belief system, ignored, shut out, make non existant,
and anything that might remind people of who and what they are doing is also evil,
and they are to imagine they are wonderful though they know they are defeated and
entrapped, they are to believe they are ok.

So let us get real, sin destroys us, and is why Jesus died to set us free.
To deny this is to deny the power of the cross and all Jesus is as the creator.

And these unbelievers show themselves by lying about Jesus's teaching, either you
obey and put into action these words or you die a shattered empty person with no
foundation and nothing left. And Jesus will say, "I never knew you, you evil doers."

Sin is stark and hiding in the dark about it will only delay the day of reconning, when
nothing can be done about the sin.

Now to compound the heresy and insult and sin they carry they call the redeemed to repent
of believing God calls us to walk righteously with Him in love and faith.

If you have seen a society run without love in hatred, you will know this barren place, so I
can only imagine this poor lost and blind souls have no experience of the hell this creates for
all involved. I have seen societies run this way in Iran, Afganhistan, Angola, Nigeria, now
Syria, Somalia, Ethiopia, and the only difference is knowing what love is and what sin is, and
striving to walk in love and repent of sin.

We can never compromise on this, because this is the Kingdom of Heaven and Gods will.

 

[miknik5]

That means...don't pm me ever again

shame on you the first time
shsme on me the second time


There won't be a second time

 

[miknik5]

Can someone expound 1 Corinthians 4 for meggido?

thanks

 

[oldethennew]

the 'dividing line' on BDF is up to God...but it is also up to us to discern it,
and participate in Love and Grace...

 

[Desertsrose]

this is where these threads go south.... you guys are the only ones that continue to bring up salvation....This happens to me all the time...

A few examples,
I say: making disciples is producing fruit...
OSAS guys: Fruit is not evidence of salvation Mr. fruit inspector so lay off...

I say: Overcoming SIN is available today through renewing your mind to the word of God.
OSAS guys: take your sinless perfection doctrine and works based salvation away from here...

I say: Abiding and covenant relationship with Father is a form of obedience
OSAS guys: stop talking works, works do not mean relationship

I say: surrender and dying to self is part of being in relationship with Father
OSAS guys: total surrender is impossible, because we don't know what we should surrender, and nobody really can crucify their flesh, its a constant war of 2 natures, so stop spreading works based salvation ideas...


You guys beat the drums on salvation, but when is the conversation going to change about whats next?

What does the walk look like after salvation/conversion?

Great question, Megiddo.

I don't think I've heard them address this at all. What does the salvation experience look like after you've been saved?

 

[Desertsrose]

Your post that I responded to was in fact correct and I really had no issue with it.
I think what I am trying to say is that we can perceive what another is saying and believe when in fact they may not be saying that, so we then become defensive.

I think the issue on this site and any site it is only words we see.
I do think if all sat around a table things would be different, if we were it's easier to get being the thinking and know the person.

Yes God loves for us to walk like Jesus, it is God who works in us to conform us the image of Christ, but to me not the other way around.

Even if we or don't even think we are getting it wrong one thing is for sure.

"God search my innermost being reveal to me the chaff in my life and purify it"

Do that all the time, and boy it's painful at times and surprising.

Sure grace can be misused but it can also be negated.
Either way it stunts growth and will affect how we walk with others and also how we reveal Jesus in us.

Yes and amen!

 

[reneweddaybyday]

This is a place to learn about the Light and enjoy the Light with others seeking the Light. Not a place to foster the darkness!

John 3:

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.



Romans 13:

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.



Ephesians 5:

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth )

10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

 

[Meggido]

Great question, Megiddo.

I don't think I've heard them address this at all. What does the salvation experience look like after you've been saved?

They never answer and I say that nicely.....The say they do works and bear fruit, but can never quite articulate what that means or looks like...contending and defending do not make disciples and I know more than one here on this board and in real life that have admitted that the sacrifice one makes defending the OSAS faith is the lack of discipleship and bearing fruit.....

Jesus gave us one thing to do......GO & MAKE....not GO & SIT, GO & GRAB, GO & DEFEND, GO & CONTEND, GO AND ENGAGE IN APOLOGETICS....he said...GO & MAKE

If we are not making disciples why are we even in the game?

 

[Desertsrose]

We're called to obey what? The 10 commandments? The 600+ levitical law?

I believe we are called to obey THE Gospel. Once we are born again WE ARE HIS KIDS!!! We will then be transformed by the Holy Spirit to follow HIS LAW that We love Him with all our heart strength mind and soul, and love our neighbor as yourself. We are a NEW CREATION. Born of the Spirit.
Can Any child do good works to become YOUR child? Or are they YOUR children by BIRTH or adoption? And once they BECOME YOUR OWN child is there ANYTHING that do or say that would make them no longer your special child?

I don't know how anyone can peruse the boards and make the comment that NO ONE is advocating that works save you.

One thread ALONE has 18000 posts that would make that remark absurd.

Sorry for the bluntness.

​Hi Ed,

So what does the gospel entail? What are the things you must obey now that you're born-again?

Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

All of what the apostles have written in their letters are left for us by our loving Lord. What has Jesus taught us to do? The NT is full of teachings from the Lord.

And yes, I agree, once we're born again we are truly children of God.

One thing though that one of my teachers has always said is that if a person calls themselves a Christian and you see no fruit in them, consider the fact that they MIGHT need the gospel preached to them. Some think they're Christians because they were born that way when their mother gave them birth.

I have a 96 year old friend and when we get together we talk a lot about the Lord. She talks of the time when she as a child went to church every Sunday. Her parents went, her family went and their neighbors went. She calls them all 'good people'.

What she means by that is that they are morally good people, but they didn't know the Lord. They weren't born again, but they thought they were Christians. Her dad even admitted he wasn't a Christian later in life.

My friend who grew up in church and continued on with church found out through her son what it means to be born-again. And she said she wanted what her son had because something real was happening to him and he was changing.

She was a sunday school teacher and said that her son knew way more than she did saved for a couple months compared to her having been in church for years thinking she was saved.

If we're God's child, He not only told us to obey and bear fruit, He gives us the ability to do so. When someone is born-again, they've been baptized in the Holy Spirit who leads and guides into all truth.

I have not seen one person that claims we must obey or do works before we've been born-again. I've only seen posts that talk about works after we've been saved. But I don't read every post and if people are arguing, and arguing and arguing, I usually pass up those posts and don't read them until I get to one that has something to say without the name calling, belittling, fighting etc.

The one thread alone that your speaking of I have stayed away from on purpose. Hearing name calling did it for me along with the back and forth bickering and fighting that helps no one. I have read a handful of posts on that thread and maybe responses to 2 or 3, so don't you think it's quite possible I haven't read the ones you've mentioned?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hi EG,

I can agree that someone should be riled up about someone claiming that we're saved by works or earn salvation through works. Can you post an example of someone who has said that?

There was one post in this thread that came close in my opinion. Only one. (Most agree that works don't save us.) But in this one post, the poster said: We are saved by grace through faith but we keep saved by works.

 

[Desertsrose]

Hi EG,

I can agree that someone should be riled up about someone claiming that we're saved by works or earn salvation through works. Can you post an example of someone who has said that?

I want to correct myself here. We are not to get riled up about anything. I looked up the definition and it means to be annoyed or irritated. That's not love. If someone preaches works salvation the first thought should be to love them and get them saved. And that takes patient endurance, being calm kind and caring.

So sorry that I said that, EG and anyone else who read that.

 

[oldethennew]

There was one post in this thread that came close in my opinion. Only one. (Most agree that works don't save us.) But in this one post, the poster said: We are saved by grace through faith but we keep saved by works.

==================================================
we will always be 'saved' by Grace through Faith, but the 'works that we do, here on earth, will determine
our place, our seat, our service to our Father when we join with Him in His Kingdom...