Hello, I am a Catholic, I come in peace simply seeking understand Protestant thought a bit more from Protestants themselves.
This is what I understand of Protestant anthropology and soteriology, at least according to the primary reformers i.e. Luther and Calvin. Please let me know if I am correct:
The original sin of Adam and Eve destroyed the goodness of man's nature and thereby destroyed the ability of his reason to know God or supernatural things, and also destroyed the freedom of his will thereby rendering him incapable of free moral actions.
Because of man's total depravity of mind/will he is unable to participate in any way in his salvation and thus salvation is a matter of grace alone.
Now the consequence of this which Luther never seems to deny and Calvin affirms outright is that because salvation is by grace ALONE then the difference between those who are saved and those who are damned depends not on human responsibility but on God, hence Calvin's doctrine of predestination.
My first question is, have I understood this correctly?
Secondly my question is this: How does such a theory avoid altering radically both God and man in such a way that God seems to be unavoidably monsterous for creating people who have absolutelly no chance of salvation, and man seems to no longer be a responsible moral agent since he can neither know the good nor does he have any power (even assisted by grace) to co-operate in doing good? If man does not even have the power to co-operate how can we speak of him as a responsible moral agent? And if God, as Calvin insists, is ultimately the only agent in human actions, how is it that man and not God is responsible for sin?
If someone can please help me to understand better I would appreciate it, thanks
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God did not choose who would be saved,and who would not be saved,in the beginning without their input,for God wants all people to come to the truth,and be saved.
To say that God chooses who will be saved is saying that God's kingdom is not based on love,because they only acknowledge God because they were chose to do it,seeing no other alternative,which is not true love.
To say that God does not choose who will be saved is saying that God is evil to condemn people that have no input in the matter.
It goes against the nature of God,for His kingdom is love,and He is good.
No person comes to the Son except the Father draw them,and no person says Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost.
Many are called,but few are chosen,for God does the calling,and choosing on earth,and God gets the glory for without God interceding in their life they would not get to the decision point to where salvation happens,but it has to be the person to make the final push through the door,because God's kingdom is love.
God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future,it is the same as if it happened in the beginning,for it will surely come to pass with no hindrances.
The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.The prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world.All the works was finished from the foundation of the world.Although they were future events.
God had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if they have salvation in the beginning,although it was a future event to those that chose salvation.
Anybody can have salvation,and we have a choice in the matter.
The same as the Word was in the beginning,and the Word was God,and the Word is God manifest in the flesh.
The Word was in the beginning as a plan of God to come in the future in flesh,but did not come to reality until Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,but did not come to reality until Jesus shed His blood on the cross.
The saints have salvation in the beginning,but did not come to reality until the future to those that chose salvation.
God is love,and not evil,and we have a choice concerning our salvation.
All have sinned,and come short of the glory of God.There is none that does good,no,not one.God is no respecter of persons,but all that call upon Him shall be saved.Our righteousness is as filthy rags.The Bible says what makes you to differ from another person.All sin is unrighteousness.
All people are in the same category as sinners,so God is not going to choose who will be saved,and not saved,for there is no difference between them in the sinning category to put one above another,and all sin is unrighteousness,and God said there is no difference between the Jew,and Gentile.
God wants all people to be saved,and we have the choice in the matter,because God's kingdom is love,and God is not evil,and all people are sinners in need of salvation.
Adam and Eve sinned,but their sin does not pass to us,for the father shall not bear the sins of the son,and the son shall not bear the sins of the father,but all will bear their own sins.That is Adam and Eve's sin,not our sin.
Adam and Eve would not of sinned unless an outside source tempted them,so God allowed Satan to tempt Eve,and then Eve tempted Adam by showing him it was alright to eat the fruit,because she did not die.
Adam and Eve were created knowing God,but when they sinned then they had a choice between good and evil,so all their offspring,the rest of humanity,are born not knowing God,and will do wrong before they come to God in the truth,so we are sinners in need of salvation.
The angels always behold the face of the Father for the little ones,and that is because babies are innocent of any sin,for Adam and Eve's sin does not apply to them,and they have not sinned,until later on when they sin,and are at the age of acountability,they they are a sinner.
Some people confuse faith alone,not saved by works,with faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone.
Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ,for we are in the flesh,and that is all we can do.
Faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,after they receive the Spirit,for then the responsibility falls on them to keep right with God,for He will not twist their arm to live right,and act like Christ,which work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Some people say they cannot abstain from sin,but the Bible says a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,and have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts,for if they hate sin,and do not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin,and when they are tempted,God will not put on them more than they can bear,so they can endure it,and will give them an escape from the temptation.
They sin because they want to sin,not because they cannot abstain,and nobody is forcing them to sin,and they can choose the good,and not do the evil.
It is an excuse on their part.
They say sin does not affect their relationship with God,but this is not true.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Sin does affect our relationship with God,and when we are saved we might sin,but it can be forgiven,and if we hold unto sin for a year it can be forgiven,and sin can be forgiven at any time,but if we hold unto sin then the blood of Jesus cannot wash it away,until we get rid of the sin.
We cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God,is not true,so why do people think they believe that.
Not everybody wants to repent of all sins,but hold unto some,and then have an excuse that they are still right with God.
They have a form of godliness,but they deny the power thereof.
God wants all people to be saved,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for God will not twist our arm to live for Him,and live right,so we have the responsibility to keep ourselves right by making the choice to allow the Spirit to lead us,and act like Christ,for quench not the Spirit,and work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For many are called,but few are chosen,for we have a choice,and God calls many people to follow Him,so God works with them to get them to the truth,but few are chosen for not everybody comes to the truth concerning salvation,for those that name the name of Christ has to depart from iniquity,but not everybody wants to do that,but hold unto sin,and say they are alright with God.
But Jesus said,not everybody that says,Lord,Lord,shall enter heaven,for they did not do the will of the Father,for they were workers of iniquity,not understanding that they have to abstain from sin,but held unto sin thinking they were alright,and the blood of Jesus did not wash it away,and it was on their record.
I might not believe everything the Catholic Church teaches,but at least they take responsibility,faith without works is dead,and these are not works of the flesh,but of the Spirit,which if we do not do those works,then we are being disobedient.
No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them,and no person says Jesus is Lord,but by the Holy Ghost,but many are called,but few are chosen.
So many will claim Jesus as Lord and Savior,but not all do what is right to be chosen,so then there will be a lot that will be hypocritical,and think they are alright with God,which the Bible says concerning now,will be a very popular belief among a lot of people that claim Christ,that they are lukewarm,hypocritical,that are in to the prosperity Gospel,money,and material things,which God says if they teach that withdraw yourselves from them,and they neglect the poor and needy in which John said,the love of God does not dwell in them,and James said,their faith is dead,amd Paul said,they erred from the faith.
But they will argue with people that do not believe OSAS,as if they are not saved for what they believe,but they claim Jesus as Lord and Savior,that He is God manifest in the flesh,and He is the Christ,the Son of the living God,but how can they do that unless God is operating in their life,and why would be God be operating in their life if they were not chosen in the beginning.
Because there are many that confess Jesus,and say He is Lord,but some are spiritual,and some are fleshy,but can become spiritual if they realize the truth,and get rid of sins,and allow the Spirit to lead them.
If we hold unto sin the blood of Jesus cannot wash away that sin,for we are keeping it instead of getting rid of it.
People need to realize that sin does affect our relationship with God,and sin can be forgiven at any time,but holding unto sin thinking they are alright is the problem,and do not perish from off this earth holding unto sin,for it will be on your record.
