Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P
Well, first of all, if you have actually fallen away, as in you no longer trust by willful choice for Christ to be the payment for your sins, then you can not come back. God will not allow it.
But if you're talking about someone toying with the idea of giving up faith in Christ, and maybe already moving toward their old lives of unbelief, then, yes, I know Christ will be there faithfully ministering his grace to you to strengthen your faith and keep you saved. But I wish it were true that everyone responds to God's conviction. Just because me and you will doesn't mean everybody will. And once a person has been turned over to their unbelief God will not convict them any further in regard to salvation. There's no reason to....they're not allowed to come back.
I do. But just because my faith is strong doesn't mean someone else who's faith is shallow and weak won't resist God's conviction. I have learned that it's a mistake to project what we do in our personal relationship with God onto others. They have their own spiritual lives at their own level of faith. So I would never insist that all believers will stay with Christ just because he convicts them to stay. Just because I'm sure that I personally will stay doesn't mean someone else will too.
But if you're talking about someone toying with the idea of giving up faith in Christ, and maybe already moving toward their old lives of unbelief, then, yes, I know Christ will be there faithfully ministering his grace to you to strengthen your faith and keep you saved. But I wish it were true that everyone responds to God's conviction. Just because me and you will doesn't mean everybody will. And once a person has been turned over to their unbelief God will not convict them any further in regard to salvation. There's no reason to....they're not allowed to come back.
I do. But just because my faith is strong doesn't mean someone else who's faith is shallow and weak won't resist God's conviction. I have learned that it's a mistake to project what we do in our personal relationship with God onto others. They have their own spiritual lives at their own level of faith. So I would never insist that all believers will stay with Christ just because he convicts them to stay. Just because I'm sure that I personally will stay doesn't mean someone else will too.
Last edited:
YEP....I agree....you should post scripture instead of what you posted and....everything I said is based upon scripture....maybe you should read the bible more....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
AMEN....called a confident expectation of something GUARANTEED (HOPE)....as in eternal life through Christ dia salvation by faith based upon grace....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
A
Hebrews 8
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
S
YEP....I agree....you should post scripture instead of what you posted and....everything I said is based upon scripture....maybe you should read the bible more....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
AMEN....called a confident expectation of something GUARANTEED (HOPE)....as in eternal life through Christ dia salvation by faith based upon grace....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
I have no problem with the scriptures you are posting and reject none of them.
They just have nothing to do with receiving Christ and obtaining eternal salvation when we hear the gospel message of Christ.
We were talking about faith with a corresponding work just like James showed as examples of having faith with a work - like Abraham and Rahab did and they were a one time event in their life that James used as an example of faith with a corresponding work. I simply used this concept to show how we too are saved by faith with a corresponding work.
So, you are saying that we don't need to do good works in order to keep our salvation? That is a very good thing...
I do agree that if we feed Christians with the proper nutrients of His love and grace - they will have His life manifested in and through them which will result in His good works.
The reason why I asked the questions about how much obedience we need to do in order to "remain saved" and what exactly are they because if our eternal destination is based on this - it is a very important information to have.
You would think God would tell us exactly what they are and not leave it "in the air".
The truth is we are saved by grace through faith alone and as we walk in Him - His life will manifest in good works. It appears you believe the same thing...
They just have nothing to do with receiving Christ and obtaining eternal salvation when we hear the gospel message of Christ.
We were talking about faith with a corresponding work just like James showed as examples of having faith with a work - like Abraham and Rahab did and they were a one time event in their life that James used as an example of faith with a corresponding work. I simply used this concept to show how we too are saved by faith with a corresponding work.
So, you are saying that we don't need to do good works in order to keep our salvation? That is a very good thing...
I do agree that if we feed Christians with the proper nutrients of His love and grace - they will have His life manifested in and through them which will result in His good works.
The reason why I asked the questions about how much obedience we need to do in order to "remain saved" and what exactly are they because if our eternal destination is based on this - it is a very important information to have.
You would think God would tell us exactly what they are and not leave it "in the air".
The truth is we are saved by grace through faith alone and as we walk in Him - His life will manifest in good works. It appears you believe the same thing...
Last edited:
U
I see what you are saying, especially damaging for those who do not have a firm understanding of scripture for sure.
I was there once, a horrible place it was, and then I said never again!
It took a year to correct all the false doctrine that I had accepted. Painful ...but God is faithful to those who seek out His Truth.
I was there once, a horrible place it was, and then I said never again!
It took a year to correct all the false doctrine that I had accepted. Painful ...but God is faithful to those who seek out His Truth.
Bottom line up front. You have to wilfully run from basic gospel and epistle truth (these get paid to type, copy paste prewritten b$) to hold up works of any sort as a supplement to the stand alone truth of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone truth.
Personally I find this hard to believe. Who would pay someone to come in to a Christian forum to talk about works for salvation in order to cause strife and division?
I think it's just a by-product of having bad teaching from our church traditions and we think we are "defending the faith" but in reality we could just be "defending our church teachings and traditions". When our "sacred cows" have a knife to their throat - the "fur can fly" in our defense of these.
I know I did the very same thing - I believed things with all my mind because of my church teachings and would "defend them" but the Lord has showed me the difference when He revealed the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work.
To me it was like "getting born-again - again". I have heard this very same thing from many that have seen the glorious light of what Christ has already done for us in His finished work.
The true gospel message of the grace of God in Christ's work is a wonderful walk of never ending astonishment of what the Lord has done for us. We have a great salvation in Him!
Last edited:
U
The getting paid part does seem a bit of a stretch, I do have an over active imagination sometimes.
Although it certainly would show how much the Gospel of Grace is hated.
I agree it does seem like being born again again, but different, speaking for myself, I just did not understand the fullness of grace, only the unmerited favor definition, yet we know it is so much more.
I think that if I had understood correctly from the start, I would not have needed the refresher experience of grace so to speak.
Originally Posted by Sully
Bottom line up front. You have to wilfully run from basic gospel and epistle truth (these get paid to type, copy paste prewritten b$) to hold up works of any sort as a supplement to the stand alone truth of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone truth.
Personally I find this hard to believe. Who would pay someone to come in to a Christian forum to talk about works for salvation in order to cause strife and division?
I think it's just a by-product of having bad teaching from our church traditions and we think we are "defending the faith" but in reality we could just be "defending our church teachings and traditions". When our "sacred cows" have a knife to their throat - the "fur can fly" in our defense of these.
I know I did the very same thing - I believed things with all my mind because of my church teachings and would "defend them" but the Lord has showed me the difference when He revealed the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work.
To me it was like "getting born-again - again". I have heard this very same thing from many that have seen the glorious light of what Christ has already done for us in His finished work.
The true gospel message of the grace of God in Christ's work is a wonderful walk of never ending astonishment of what the Lord has done for us. We have a great salvation in Him!
Although it certainly would show how much the Gospel of Grace is hated.
I agree it does seem like being born again again, but different, speaking for myself, I just did not understand the fullness of grace, only the unmerited favor definition, yet we know it is so much more.
I think that if I had understood correctly from the start, I would not have needed the refresher experience of grace so to speak.
Bottom line up front. You have to wilfully run from basic gospel and epistle truth (these get paid to type, copy paste prewritten b$) to hold up works of any sort as a supplement to the stand alone truth of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone truth.
Personally I find this hard to believe. Who would pay someone to come in to a Christian forum to talk about works for salvation in order to cause strife and division?
I think it's just a by-product of having bad teaching from our church traditions and we think we are "defending the faith" but in reality we could just be "defending our church teachings and traditions". When our "sacred cows" have a knife to their throat - the "fur can fly" in our defense of these.
I know I did the very same thing - I believed things with all my mind because of my church teachings and would "defend them" but the Lord has showed me the difference when He revealed the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's finished work.
To me it was like "getting born-again - again". I have heard this very same thing from many that have seen the glorious light of what Christ has already done for us in His finished work.
The true gospel message of the grace of God in Christ's work is a wonderful walk of never ending astonishment of what the Lord has done for us. We have a great salvation in Him!
S
The getting paid part does seem a bit of a stretch, I do have an over active imagination sometimes.
Although it certainly would show how much the Gospel of Grace is hated.
I agree it does seem like being born again again, but different, speaking for myself, I just did not understand the fullness of grace, only the unmerited favor definition, yet we know it is so much more.
I think that if I had understood correctly from the start, I would not have needed the refresher experience of grace so to speak.
Although it certainly would show how much the Gospel of Grace is hated.
I agree it does seem like being born again again, but different, speaking for myself, I just did not understand the fullness of grace, only the unmerited favor definition, yet we know it is so much more.
I think that if I had understood correctly from the start, I would not have needed the refresher experience of grace so to speak.