Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
The greek word means to fulfill, or to complete, Context would have to be used, I agree, complete would not seem to fit, especially since jesus said he did not come to abolish the law. but it is an actual possible interpretation
Jesus fulfilled the law in that he lived a life sin free, then because the lamb who was slaughtered on the alter for the atonement of sin.
Jesus fulfilled the law in that he lived a life sin free, then because the lamb who was slaughtered on the alter for the atonement of sin.
I SAID COMPLETE !!
See. I told you it was a mis-understanding.
Jesus said He did not come to ABOLISH but to FULFILL. I did say this in my post.
Fulfill means to COMPLETE. It was MY statement.
The Moral Law is still present in the New Covenant.
Only how we can follow it has been changed.
Jesus did not abolish the moral law.
This would be impossible since God IS LOVE and God IS MORALITY in its pure form. God cannot separate Himself from His nature...
See. I told you it was a mis-understanding.
Jesus said He did not come to ABOLISH but to FULFILL. I did say this in my post.
Fulfill means to COMPLETE. It was MY statement.
The Moral Law is still present in the New Covenant.
Only how we can follow it has been changed.
Jesus did not abolish the moral law.
This would be impossible since God IS LOVE and God IS MORALITY in its pure form. God cannot separate Himself from His nature...
P
Notice how John warns the remaining believing ones to not do the same thing but rather let the word of the gospel remain in them:
1 John 2:24 NASB
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
Do the many Bible references to keep believing in the word mean believers can potentially return to their old lives of unbelief, or are the warnings sufficient to keep every 'real' believer in the word? Besides the warnings being so pointed, Jesus does talk about little ones who believe in Him stumbling and going to the eternal fire in Matthew 18:6-9. This suggests the problem isn't the difference between fake faith and real faith, but rather weak faith vs. strong faith.
Okay, good. Then you agree that works must accompany salvation. Not to secure justification, but as the expected outcome of the person who has faith in Christ.
But to the point of your post. 'Temporary' belief can be qualified as 'weak' faith, not just 'fake' faith. It's genuine, but it's weak, and because it's weak it withers before it comes to maturity. The misunderstanding of the 1 John 2:19 passage (which by the way doesn't have the word 'really' in the original) seems to be the misguided energy behind the prevalent thinking in the church that failed faith is always and without exception fake faith. But there is certainly Biblical room to consider that failed faith can simply be weak faith. Weak faith that can't stand up to the trials and temptations of this life but is easily drawn away in favor of a return to the old life.
1 John 2:24 NASB
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
Do the many Bible references to keep believing in the word mean believers can potentially return to their old lives of unbelief, or are the warnings sufficient to keep every 'real' believer in the word? Besides the warnings being so pointed, Jesus does talk about little ones who believe in Him stumbling and going to the eternal fire in Matthew 18:6-9. This suggests the problem isn't the difference between fake faith and real faith, but rather weak faith vs. strong faith.
Okay, good. Then you agree that works must accompany salvation. Not to secure justification, but as the expected outcome of the person who has faith in Christ.
But to the point of your post. 'Temporary' belief can be qualified as 'weak' faith, not just 'fake' faith. It's genuine, but it's weak, and because it's weak it withers before it comes to maturity. The misunderstanding of the 1 John 2:19 passage (which by the way doesn't have the word 'really' in the original) seems to be the misguided energy behind the prevalent thinking in the church that failed faith is always and without exception fake faith. But there is certainly Biblical room to consider that failed faith can simply be weak faith. Weak faith that can't stand up to the trials and temptations of this life but is easily drawn away in favor of a return to the old life.
Last edited:
A
All you need is the faith the size of a mustard seed to move mountains.
A weak faith is false faith in self or a false gospel.
If you have a true faith in God and His gospel, then God will strengthen you and help you develop deeper roots. Even if you stumble, God will send people to walk alongside you and help you up.
God's children never walk alone.
During the storms of life, God carries them or gives them shelter beneath His wings.
A weak faith is false faith in self or a false gospel.
If you have a true faith in God and His gospel, then God will strengthen you and help you develop deeper roots. Even if you stumble, God will send people to walk alongside you and help you up.
God's children never walk alone.
During the storms of life, God carries them or gives them shelter beneath His wings.
Last edited by a moderator:
U
Well I will assume you are asking in earnest.
One can have faith and not be saved. It is by having faith in the right object and the right event (the cross) that we receive the free gift of salvation (believing upon Jesus Christ as our Savior – who He is and what He has done for us -1 Cor. 15:3-4). We are justified by our faith in Him through the preaching of His truth, the gospel.
Not every one that saith unto me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” And then will I profess unto them, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:21-23)
Their faith was NOT in Jesus. Rather, their faith was in their works.
Belief is something we are fully persuaded of....faith is acting on that belief with confidence. If our beliefs are wrong our faith is misplaced.
The law has not changed but the believer has been changed. I do not follow the law, it is actually impossible to follow the law...even the ten commandments.
The believer lives in the LIBERTY and Power of God's Grace by the Spirit, not the Law.
It is freedom from the law, the Holy Spirit is in us, God is Love, God does not operate under the law, it is not the law that makes God Love.
One can have faith and not be saved. It is by having faith in the right object and the right event (the cross) that we receive the free gift of salvation (believing upon Jesus Christ as our Savior – who He is and what He has done for us -1 Cor. 15:3-4). We are justified by our faith in Him through the preaching of His truth, the gospel.
Not every one that saith unto me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?” And then will I profess unto them, “I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:21-23)
Their faith was NOT in Jesus. Rather, their faith was in their works.
Belief is something we are fully persuaded of....faith is acting on that belief with confidence. If our beliefs are wrong our faith is misplaced.
The law has not changed but the believer has been changed. I do not follow the law, it is actually impossible to follow the law...even the ten commandments.
The believer lives in the LIBERTY and Power of God's Grace by the Spirit, not the Law.
It is freedom from the law, the Holy Spirit is in us, God is Love, God does not operate under the law, it is not the law that makes God Love.
Would like to say that the gospel encapsulates more than the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus....in Revelation the angel of the Lord flies through the midst of heaven preaching the everlasting gospel to those who dwell upon on earth....the message he preaches is...to fear and worship the one who made all things....the gospel carries the idea of the correct message about any and all things....the death, burial and resurrection is one aspect of it.....just saying.
If we start at the beginning, or even before the beginning of creation/time, Jesus was purposed to save His own. Who are His but those who believe on Him? Anyone else is a child of the devil, born into Adam (as are we all) but found in the flesh (which counts for nothing) at the end of this age when all are judged following the resurrection of all. Spiritual rebirth is necessary.
Jesus created everything, He is the Master of the universe, the great architect, and the giver of life. He holds the keys of life and death. He demonstrated His mastery over the elements of this world while He walked the earth. He demonstrated His mastery over sin and death. He overcame these things on our behalf due to His great love for us. His righteous blood covers us, as was foreshadowed in the first Passover. If we believe on Him, we pass from death into life ever after. All else pass into the second death. I think on all these points we would agree. The only thing we might disagree on is what happens to those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life
Jesus created everything, He is the Master of the universe, the great architect, and the giver of life. He holds the keys of life and death. He demonstrated His mastery over the elements of this world while He walked the earth. He demonstrated His mastery over sin and death. He overcame these things on our behalf due to His great love for us. His righteous blood covers us, as was foreshadowed in the first Passover. If we believe on Him, we pass from death into life ever after. All else pass into the second death. I think on all these points we would agree. The only thing we might disagree on is what happens to those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life
My view on the parable of the sower..
a. Satan takes seed away--->lost
b. Saved yet worldliness chokes fruit <-works wood, hay stubble
c. Saved no growth spiritually stunted <--hardly any fruit or works wood, hay, stubble
d. Saved, faithful and bears abundance <-works gold, silver and precious stones...
a. Satan takes seed away--->lost
b. Saved yet worldliness chokes fruit <-works wood, hay stubble
c. Saved no growth spiritually stunted <--hardly any fruit or works wood, hay, stubble
d. Saved, faithful and bears abundance <-works gold, silver and precious stones...
If we start at the beginning, or even before the beginning of creation/time, Jesus was purposed to save His own. Who are His but those who believe on Him? Anyone else is a child of the devil, born into Adam (as are we all) but found in the flesh (which counts for nothing) at the end of this age when all are judged following the resurrection of all. Spiritual rebirth is necessary.
Jesus created everything, He is the Master of the universe, the great architect, and the giver of life. He holds the keys of life and death. He demonstrated His mastery over the elements of this world while He walked the earth. He demonstrated His mastery over sin and death. He overcame these things on our behalf due to His great love for us. His righteous blood covers us, as was foreshadowed in the first Passover. If we believe on Him, we pass from death into life ever after. All else pass into the second death. I think on all these points we would agree. The only thing we might disagree on is what happens to those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life
Jesus created everything, He is the Master of the universe, the great architect, and the giver of life. He holds the keys of life and death. He demonstrated His mastery over the elements of this world while He walked the earth. He demonstrated His mastery over sin and death. He overcame these things on our behalf due to His great love for us. His righteous blood covers us, as was foreshadowed in the first Passover. If we believe on Him, we pass from death into life ever after. All else pass into the second death. I think on all these points we would agree. The only thing we might disagree on is what happens to those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life
hahahah jokes of course haha
Amen...off the top of my head, sitting in a hotel in St. Louis for my mom's tests at Barnes Hospital...the only thing I can think of that we disagree on is hell/lake of fire hahahHah one day you will come on board hahahah jokes of course haha
hahahah jokes of course haha