Not By Works

Gabriel2020 · Jul 21, 2017

Ok, lets get this clear, the holy spirit is that very same law in the old testament manifested into words written by moses. It was not in their hearts. That is the difference when God sent Jesus to put that very same law in the hearts of man. When now you break one of these, you give account to God which determines your salvation. Before that, men would carry out the sentence of those that broke the law.

Sully · Jul 21, 2017

PHart said:

are you the "like" police fart?

PHart · Jul 21, 2017

Sully said:

Yes. I'm the badge carrying 'like' poleece 'round these parts. Don't forget it.

Oh, and by the way, you smelled....I mean....spelled 'PHart' wrong.

Sully · Jul 21, 2017

PHart said:

Well, let me throw you a "like". You seem like the kind of guy that has a high focus on that kind of thing. I like what you did with your name shill, sorry for exposing you.

Ariel82 · Jul 21, 2017

Seohce said:

I believe we should follow the Holy spirit, which is a higher calling than legalistically following written words in a book
To be a child of God, you must be born again and have a personal relationship with God via the Holy spirit.

******
John 14
15“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper,f to be with you forever, 17even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will beg in you.

18“I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. 21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.

25“These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. 28You heard me say to you, ‘I am going away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe.

UnderGrace · Jul 21, 2017

Clear as mud

So you are able to keep all the 613 Laws, as well, are you Hebrew?

Gabriel2020 said:

Ariel82 · Jul 21, 2017

Psalm 139 ►
English Standard Version

1O LORD, you have searched me and known me!
2You know when I sit down and when I rise up;
you discern my thoughts from afar.
3You search out my path and my lying down
and are acquainted with all my ways.
4Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O LORD, you know it altogether.
5You hem me in, behind and before,
and lay your hand upon me.
6Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
it is high; I cannot attain it.

7Where shall I go from your Spirit?
Or where shall I flee from your presence?
8If I ascend to heaven, you are there!
If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!
9If I take the wings of the morning
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10even there your hand shall lead me,
and your right hand shall hold me.
11If I say, “Surely the darkness shall cover me,
and the light about me be night,”
12even the darkness is not dark to you;
the night is bright as the day,
for darkness is as light with you.

13For you formed my inward parts;
you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.
14I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.a
Wonderful are your works;
my soul knows it very well.
15My frame was not hidden from you,
when I was being made in secret,
intricately woven in the depths of the earth.
16Your eyes saw my unformed substance;
in your book were written, every one of them,
the days that were formed for me,
when as yet there was none of them.

17How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18If I would count them, they are more than the sand.
I awake, and I am still with you.

dcontroversal · Jul 21, 2017

Gabriel2020 said:

Jesus is my lawyer and where sin abounds grace did much more abound....I have had the righteousness of Christ imputed by faith without the deeds of the law which = eternal salvation, justification, sealed with the Holy spirit and sanctified in Christ eternally.....

UnderGrace · Jul 21, 2017

Thank you for cleaning up all that mud.

Now it is clear.

dcontroversal said:

dcontroversal · Jul 21, 2017

UnderGrace said:

Nothing like wading through it hey.....

Their song goes something like this...

We'll work till Jesus comes...
We'll work till Jesus comes...
We'll work till Jesus comes...
and then get cast away......!

Many will say in that day--->Lord, Lord have we not done many wonderful works in your name.........

LoveGodForever · Jul 21, 2017

graceNpeace said:

Why are you accusing someone of asking questions of being a strawman?

LoveGodForever · Jul 21, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Hi EG,
So you’re saying that these scriptures below about God writing His Laws in our hearts do not apply to us and only apply to literal Israel and not the Christian? Here I have been all this time thinking that God's Word applies to me.

Heb 8:6-12
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he says, Behold, the days come, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, says the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he says, a new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

LoveGodForever · Jul 21, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Hi Grace777,

Here is the reply that you forgot to post with your cuts and pasts from the got questions website for those interested. Can someone please tell me where in that article does it say in the scriptures that Jesus in our Sabbath and we no longer need to keep the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] Commandment of God’s Law the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath as a holy day as God commanded His people to do? Our opinions mean nothing it is only God’s Word that matters (Acts 5:29)

Here was the reply for those interested

So nice to see you and appreciate you sharing with us. Your post from that website however has already been discussed here and shown to be not from God's Word. The main thing that undoes this post is that the 7th Day Sabbath has its origin as part of the creation week which is a finished work and it was given before the fall of mankind before sin entered the World (Gen 2:1-3). This being the case it is impossible for it to be a shadow of anything at all. All the shadows from the laws of Moses pointing to Jesus were given after the fall of mankind because they were pointing to Jesus which was an unfinished promise. Jesus tells us that he made the Sabbath for mankind. This was the Sabbaths original purpose so the we can meet with the creator especially on the 7th Day of the creation week. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and commands us to Keep His day Holy (Mark 2:27-28; Ex 20:8-11). We follow Jesus because we love him and this is what he has asked us of us.

Hope that helps some past links are here if you interested to read about it further.

The real Gospel?

Col 2 Sabbaths and Shadows of things to come (1)

Col 2 Sabbaths and Shadows of things to come (2)

Col 2 Sabbath and Shadows of things to come (3)

What is the difference between God's Law and the laws of Moses ?

God's Law and the laws of Moses (1)

God's Law and the laws of Moses (2)

We all as Christians need to consider everyday if we are following God or not in our daily lives. Jesus tells us that we are not following him if we put man-made traditions in place of the Word of God (please read Matt 15:3-9). Sunday worship is a man-made tradition that is a teaching of man and many have been deceived into following this as a day of Worship in place of the 7th Day Sabbath that God has commanded us to follow. The main questions each of us needs to ask ourselves is; Should I believe and follow God's Word or should I follow the teachings and traditions of man?

Once again something for you to think about if you have some time; Please show me one scripture from God's Word that answers even one question below? (you don't need to show me just do it for yourself asking Jesus and study God's Word for yourself)

The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

Hope this is helpful and gives you something to think about.

God bless[/QUOTE]

LoveGodForever · Jul 21, 2017

Hi EG,

Comments in RED

eternally-gratefull said:

If one claims you can lose your salvation because you have sinned (like he said, and I have seen him say numerous times) then one is putting one back under law.

Friend it is not me that says this it is God. Sin is the transgression of God’s Law (1John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23). The context has always been wilful unrepentant sin is where you will lose salvation because you are not following or believing God’s Word. You may wish to consider a few of the many below onthe topic

Heb 10:26-27,

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.If that is not enough (Rom 1:18-32; 1John 2:3-4; James 2:8-20; 1John 3:6-8; etc etc)

in the same token, if your obeying the sabbath only as a means of performance (God said so so I must do it) then you miss the whole point, and you too are placing yourself under law. and missing out of the real rest God has been wanting to give us.

No one is saying that you are saved by keeping any of God’s Laws even the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath. I don’t know why you are suggesting this. Salvation is only by Faith in God’s Word. Now if God asks us to do something and I do it by walking in the Spirit because I love God because of what he has done for me is this faith or works? Alternatively, if God asks me to do something in His Word and I do not do it is this believing or having Faith in God? It has never been about works it has always been about God’s Love in us who walk not after the Flesh but after the Spirit (Rom Chpt 8)

Thats why the law cannot make us righteous, It was never intended to save us, or make us good moral people. People who have tried to use it that way have failed. Look at Israel.. yet here we are and much of the church wants to do the same thing, as if they will have better luck..that is the wisdom of men for ya, and what does God say about the wisdom of men?

I think this is where you maybe have a misunderstanding of what some people are saying. No one is telling you that you need to keep God’s Law to be righteous. All God’s Law does is show us what sin is and the standard of righteousness and brings us to Jesus so he can save us from our sins and write His Laws in our heart (Heb 8:10-12) through His Spirit (Rom 8).

LoveGodForever · Jul 21, 2017

Grace777x70 said:

Both "the keeping of Saturday or Sunday" are carnal ( fleshly ) ways and no one is condemning anyone for it. That might just be a product of your own thought life thinking that others are saying that they are condemning law-keepers. I am however totally against the Judaizing spirit which says that if Christians don't follow the Sabbath or any other carnal observation in the Old Testament then they are sinning and dis-obeying God. I'm simply saying the way of the Lord in the New Covenant which is Christ Himself living His life in and through us is how Christians are to live now. Whether people meet on a Saturday or a Sunday or any day is totally irrelevant in the New Covenant. Any "laws" that we put on ourselves or others other then the law of Christ, the law of love, the law of faith, the law of liberty in Christ and the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus - are all carnal laws. People are free in the Lord to do as they please in some of these areas but it's when they start to impose these "laws" on others - that's when the line has been crossed.
Romans 14:22 (NASB) [SUP]22 [/SUP]The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

Grace777, you’re a funny one with all your Judaizing spirits. Why do you call God’s 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment (Ex 20:8-11) carnal? God's Law is not sin. God says it is Holy, Just and Good (Rom 7:12) and if we break it then it is sin just like if you kill someone (1John 3:4; James 2:8-12)

God bless everyone

LoveGodForever · Jul 21, 2017

Meggido said:

Hi Megiddo,

No one is saying that we are saved by keeping God’s Law. We are saved only by Faith in God’s Word. The question is do we believe God’s Word? Also no one is saying you need to keep the ceremonial laws of Moses. These are not God’s law (the 10 commandments) most of the ceremonial laws were a shadow that pointed to Jesus. Scripture proof from the Links below have a read.

Ceremonial laws of Moses (1)

Ceremonial laws of Moses (2)

Some people get God’s Law mixed up with the ceremonial laws of Moses and think that the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Weekly Sabbath is a part of the ceremonial laws of Moses. Leviticus 23 describes the annual ceremonial Sabbaths that were connected to New Moons and annual feast days these could fall on any day of the week (depending on the new moon) These were part of the ceremonial laws of Moses in Leviticus 23 and are not the same as the normal weekly Sabbath of God’s forever Laws (10 and the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] commandment) scripture proof in these posts for those interested;

Col 2 Sabbaths and Shadows of things to come (1)

Col 2 Sabbaths and Shadows of things to come (2)

Col 2 Sabbath and Shadows of things to come (3)

Hope this helps

God bless you all

Limey410v2 · Jul 21, 2017

PHart said:

1 Timothy 1:13-15

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

I wonder who Paul was blaspheming? And I wonder what this grace is doing in there being all exceedingly abundant and such!!
And how could Jesus possibly accept Paul , that chief sinner! ?

Seems like God is doing some miracles outside of what you think He is able.

Gabriel2020 · Jul 21, 2017

Even all these laws never pertained to one person, just the ones that broke one of these. remember the laws said "If"anyone. every body's way of life had little or no encounter with all 618 laws.

garee · Jul 21, 2017

Not in as us towards Him turning things upside down but of his faith towards us. The faith of Christ that works in us

We are saved by the faith of (coming from) Christ, the faith of God not by our new faith we can have in (towards him) again of by which we can believe Him and not of our own selves. .His faith which draws us towards Him is not without work as the kind of work that works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.(imputed righteousness)

If we have that faith in respect to ourselves by some work we could do we have blasphemed His Holy name. It is the work of God that we can believe God. Offering dead works coming from a faith we offer towards Him places a person in the Hebrews 6 boat. Faith works two ways ours towards Him....our amen, and His towards us the reason we can say amen . The father of lies would try and make it all one thing confusing the things of God . The things of men which they prerform offends Him. In regard to those kind of things Christ informs men I never knew you worker of evil

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

I think it would be "how" can we believe Him ? If he gives us his faith to make it even possible, we can. Without His faith no man can please the author and finisher.

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, (coming from towards us) that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Seohce · Jul 21, 2017

Ariel82 said:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(john 1:1-3 & 14)

Hebrews 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me. “Come now; let us leave.

I BELIEVE THAT WE WHO LIVE TODAY RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT THRU FAITH(gal 3:14) AND THAT OUR FAITH COMES FROM HEARING(rom 10:8-17) THE MESSAGE, THE WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION(eph 1:13).

SO JESUS SAID THAT HE DOES EXACTLY WHAT THE FATHER COMMANDS HIM TO DO AND IF WE REALLY ARE IN HIM(his body) WE WILL DO AND WALK AS JESUS DID.

1 John 2:6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

BEFORE JESUS ASCENDED TO THE FATHER, HE COMMISSIONED US TO TEACH THE WORLD TO OBEY WHATEVER HE COMMANDED.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

THE RICH YOUNG MAN COULD NOT FOLLOW JESUS BECAUSE OF HIS SELFISHNESS, BEING SO RICH, HE REJECTED CHRIST’S COMMAND FOR HIM TO SELL HIS POSSESSIONS TO BE GIVEN TO THE POOR.

THIS SAME THING IS THE REASON WHY SOME ON THIS THREAD WOULD NOT ACCEPT THAT FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.

THEY DON’T WANT TO BE FORCED OR COMPROMISED TO FOLLOW THIS COMMANDMENT BECAUSE OF THEIR GREED AND SELFISHNESS.

Matthew 19:17-26 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” “Which ones?” the man inquired. Jesus replied, “‘Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’” “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?” Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. Then Jesus said to his disciples, “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

THEY DO THE SAME TO THE OTHER COMMANDMENTS WHILE BOASTING OF THEIR FAITH AND CRITICIZING THOSE WHO FOLLOWS GOD’S COMMANDS.

IF THESE PEOPLE REALLY HAVE THIS SAVING FAITH, THEN I CHALLENGE THEM TO SELL THEIR POSSESSIONS TO BE GIVEN TO THE POOR OR THE “CHRISTIAN CHAT”, OUT OF LOVE AND COMPASSION AND OF OBEDIENCE TO GOD WITH ALL HONESTY AND INTEGRITY.

Acts 5:1-11 Ananias and Sapphira Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet. Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.” When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?” “Yes,” she said, “that is the price.” Peter said to her, “How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.” At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

Matthew 23:1-3 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for THEY DO NOT PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH.
AMEN!

.

Not By Works

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