Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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P
Lol, YES, that's what I've been saying. But NOT in the way that you perhaps think I'm saying that means.
Works are necessary for salvation because works are what saved people do, and are what Christ will use to separate the sheep from the goats at the Judgment. Those works don't earn salvation at the Judgment. They indicate if you have loved God in a genuine 'born again by faith apart from works' salvation. That's what Christ will be looking for at the Judgment--not your lip service, but a life of love for him and his people. That's how he will judge you as having been born again by faith all by itself.
But so many people in the church are sure they can arrive at the Judgment with no works and Jesus is going to put them on his right (with all the righteous people who did show their love for God and his people by what they did) because as they love to chant, "salvation is not of works". Which is true, works do not earn salvation, but that hardly means you can have no works with your (supposed) salvation and you'll be okay at the Judgment. Your works are required at the Judgment because that's what saved people do. That's why James says faith with no works attached can not save. The person who can not show his faith by what he does does not have the faith he thinks he has. He will be burned up at the Judgment, not saved.
Works are necessary for salvation because works are what saved people do, and are what Christ will use to separate the sheep from the goats at the Judgment. Those works don't earn salvation at the Judgment. They indicate if you have loved God in a genuine 'born again by faith apart from works' salvation. That's what Christ will be looking for at the Judgment--not your lip service, but a life of love for him and his people. That's how he will judge you as having been born again by faith all by itself.
But so many people in the church are sure they can arrive at the Judgment with no works and Jesus is going to put them on his right (with all the righteous people who did show their love for God and his people by what they did) because as they love to chant, "salvation is not of works". Which is true, works do not earn salvation, but that hardly means you can have no works with your (supposed) salvation and you'll be okay at the Judgment. Your works are required at the Judgment because that's what saved people do. That's why James says faith with no works attached can not save. The person who can not show his faith by what he does does not have the faith he thinks he has. He will be burned up at the Judgment, not saved.
Jesus took it further.
Matthew 5:44-48
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
One of the problems I think we have as people is if we don't truly understand the love God has for us then it's going to be difficult to love others, our neighbors and enemies and even our spouses.
If that's the case then loving is mechanics as such it's I'm only doing this because I have to, it's what God as commanded me to do.
Dont get me wrong it is what God has asked to do. And at times it is hard to do.
Love is not a feeling it's an act of our will.
Jesus died on the cross for us as an act of love. This love was an agape love. It was a true agape love.
But he did this because he truly loved us, he knew our condition, he knew our pains, he knew our sins.
To me it wasn't I have to do it, he did it because he loves us so much he was willing to do it.
Thats the place where God wants us to come to.
I love you because I love. The agape love that nailed Jesus to the cross is the love we have in our heart.
However if we don't realise and know that this is the love God has for us then we can't walk in this with others.
Jesus said "May they know that you them as much as you love me"
If we don't get that then we can't truly walk in agape love
Matthew 5:44-48
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
One of the problems I think we have as people is if we don't truly understand the love God has for us then it's going to be difficult to love others, our neighbors and enemies and even our spouses.
If that's the case then loving is mechanics as such it's I'm only doing this because I have to, it's what God as commanded me to do.
Dont get me wrong it is what God has asked to do. And at times it is hard to do.
Love is not a feeling it's an act of our will.
Jesus died on the cross for us as an act of love. This love was an agape love. It was a true agape love.
But he did this because he truly loved us, he knew our condition, he knew our pains, he knew our sins.
To me it wasn't I have to do it, he did it because he loves us so much he was willing to do it.
Thats the place where God wants us to come to.
I love you because I love. The agape love that nailed Jesus to the cross is the love we have in our heart.
However if we don't realise and know that this is the love God has for us then we can't walk in this with others.
Jesus said "May they know that you them as much as you love me"
If we don't get that then we can't truly walk in agape love
P
Right, and the absence of being characterized by righteous works shows that you DO NOT BELIEVE ON HIM (or you stopped believing in him), and as a result you will be burned up at the Judgement, not saved.
But you are correct, sin is not the issue. The unbelief that drives it is. Unbelievers/ former believers do not have the cross at their disposal to deal with their sin. Only believers (present tense) have their sin eternally dealt with at the cross, and they show it by their ever-increasing works. But the absence of works show one to be on the wrong side of the cross.
But you are correct, sin is not the issue. The unbelief that drives it is. Unbelievers/ former believers do not have the cross at their disposal to deal with their sin. Only believers (present tense) have their sin eternally dealt with at the cross, and they show it by their ever-increasing works. But the absence of works show one to be on the wrong side of the cross.
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P
What do I call the thief on the cross? The incredibly rare person who is physically unable to move his body in acts of righteousness because they are literally nailed down so they won't move. And a person who so many people who can move their arms and legs over a lifetime of living love to use as the reason they do not have to have works to go along with their faith.