Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Changed your mind.....you keep doing that? Now we do not need theologians?

Amen.

If you just read God's Word with no preconceived ideas,it'll be very simple to understand and to follow what it says.
No theology necessary,
No twistng necessary,
Nothing necessary but the Word of God.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
The Full Assurance of Faith
First of all, God the Father is speaking one thing to the world. Son.



God, ......


Heb 1:2  has in these last days spoken to us by a Son *just making a point, and not deliberately leaving out anything.*




Heb 10:19  Therefore, my brothers, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus, Speaking to Jewish believers *presence of God-sanctuary*


Heb 10:20  the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain (that is, through his flesh), God in man.


Heb 10:21  and since we have a great high priest over the household of God, *Likened to Melchizadek priesthood, unending or forever*
.

Heb 10:22  let us continue to come near with sincere hearts in the full assurance that faith provides, because our hearts have been sprinkled clean from a guilty conscience, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. Baptism in His name.


Heb 10:23  Let us continue to hold firmly to the hope that we confess without wavering, for the one who made the promise is faithful.
 

Heb 10:24  And let us continue to consider how to motivate one another to love and good deeds, 


Heb 10:25  not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another even more as you see the day of the Lord coming nearer.
 

Heb 10:26  For if we choose to go on sinning after we have learned the full truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, *undergrace did address this already, but again, if these HEBREW believers turn back to the law after placing their faith in Messiah's death and resurrection, and then would commit a sin, there is no more sacrifice for sin under the law*.
 

Heb 10:27  but only a terrifying prospect of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 


Heb 10:28  Anyone who violates the Law of Moses dies without mercy "on the testimony of two or three witnesses." *they have placed themselves back under the law of Moses and this is their fate*
 

Heb 10:29  How much more severe a punishment do you think that person deserves who tramples on God's Son, treats as common the blood of the covenant by which it was sanctified, and insults the Spirit of grace? * A very slap in the face of Father HIMSELF since it was His plan to offer HIs Son from the foundation of the world.*
 

Heb 10:30  For we know the one who said, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will pay them back," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." *result of the disobedience of unbelief.*
 

Heb 10:31  It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!
 

Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
 

Heb 10:33  At times you were made a public spectacle by means of insults and persecutions, while at other times you associated with people who were treated this way.
 

Heb 10:34  For you sympathized with the prisoners and cheerfully submitted to the violent seizure of your property, because you know that you have a better and more permanent possession.
 

Heb 10:35  So don't lose your confidence, since it holds a great reward for you. *in the blood of Jesus* Examine yourself to see if seeds of unbelief may be forming in our unrenewed mind.*
 

Heb 10:36  For you need endurance, so that after you have done God's will you can receive what he has promised. *because of trials that come* *persecution*
 

Heb 10:37  For "in a very little while the one who is coming will return—he will not delay; 


Heb 10:38  but my righteous one will live by faith, and if he turns back, my soul will take no pleasure in him." *turns from grace to law*


Heb 10:39  Now, we do not belong to those who turn back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. 

So what's the beef?

 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
Hi UG

In RED for you below


So the gift from God, salvation/eternal life which is bound in God's love for us, can be taken away by the teachings of man?

Absolutely if it leads to sin and departing from God. Did you not read Heb 10:26-27 that was just posted above?Here you go...

Heb 10:26-27,

For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.


You need to keep studying then because Paul makes it pretty clear this is not true....


We all need to keep studying God's Word don't you think?

Romans 8:38-39King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


I love your scriptures above but the context above is someone in Christ walking in the Spirit and not sinning (Rom 8:1-17). It is not saying we can continue and sin and will be saved. In fact if you are willfully sinning you profess to know Jesus God's Word says...

1Jo 2:3,
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4,
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Jam 2:10,
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


Ohhh... Fran exegete that.... I'm waiting?
Hope this helps you UG

God bless
 
Last edited:

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,595
17,062
113
69
Tennessee
Clearwater?
I remember back in the day when there was still free parking at the beach.
Just like the airport in Tampa.
I have lived in Clearwater almost 3 years and have only been to the beach once. We parked our car in a hotel parking lot. Fortunately it was still there and not towed when we returned. I have lived in Florida since 1985 and that's the first time that I saw the Gulf of Mexico. I've been to the beaches on the east coast many times but never the gulf.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,450
70
48
I have lived in Clearwater almost 3 years and have only been to the beach once. We parked our car in a hotel parking lot. Fortunately it was still there and not towed when we returned. I have lived in Florida since 1985 and that's the first time that I saw the Gulf of Mexico. I've been to the beaches on the east coast many times but never the gulf.
There was a time when condos did not fill the beach.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Thank you ....you have more patience than me. Well done and thanks for the credit.


The Full Assurance of Faith
First of all, God the Father is speaking one thing to the world. Son.



God, ......


Heb 1:2  has in these last days spoken to us by a Son *just making a point, and not deliberately leaving out anything.*




Heb 10:19  Therefore, my brothers, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus, Speaking to Jewish believers *presence of God-sanctuary*


Heb 10:20  the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain (that is, through his flesh), God in man.


Heb 10:21  and since we have a great high priest over the household of God, *Likened to Melchizadek priesthood, unending or forever*
.

Heb 10:22  let us continue to come near with sincere hearts in the full assurance that faith provides, because our hearts have been sprinkled clean from a guilty conscience, and our bodies have been washed with pure water. Baptism in His name.


Heb 10:23  Let us continue to hold firmly to the hope that we confess without wavering, for the one who made the promise is faithful.
 

Heb 10:24  And let us continue to consider how to motivate one another to love and good deeds, 


Heb 10:25  not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another even more as you see the day of the Lord coming nearer.
 

Heb 10:26  For if we choose to go on sinning after we have learned the full truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, *undergrace did address this already, but again, if these HEBREW believers turn back to the law after placing their faith in Messiah's death and resurrection, and then would commit a sin, there is no more sacrifice for sin under the law*.
 

Heb 10:27  but only a terrifying prospect of judgment and a raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 


Heb 10:28  Anyone who violates the Law of Moses dies without mercy "on the testimony of two or three witnesses." *they have placed themselves back under the law of Moses and this is their fate*
 

Heb 10:29  How much more severe a punishment do you think that person deserves who tramples on God's Son, treats as common the blood of the covenant by which it was sanctified, and insults the Spirit of grace? * A very slap in the face of Father HIMSELF since it was His plan to offer HIs Son from the foundation of the world.*
 

Heb 10:30  For we know the one who said, "Vengeance belongs to me; I will pay them back," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." *result of the disobedience of unbelief.*
 

Heb 10:31  It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!
 

Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
 

Heb 10:33  At times you were made a public spectacle by means of insults and persecutions, while at other times you associated with people who were treated this way.
 

Heb 10:34  For you sympathized with the prisoners and cheerfully submitted to the violent seizure of your property, because you know that you have a better and more permanent possession.
 

Heb 10:35  So don't lose your confidence, since it holds a great reward for you. *in the blood of Jesus* Examine yourself to see if seeds of unbelief may be forming in our unrenewed mind.*
 

Heb 10:36  For you need endurance, so that after you have done God's will you can receive what he has promised. *because of trials that come* *persecution*
 

Heb 10:37  For "in a very little while the one who is coming will return—he will not delay; 


Heb 10:38  but my righteous one will live by faith, and if he turns back, my soul will take no pleasure in him." *turns from grace to law*


Heb 10:39  Now, we do not belong to those who turn back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. 

So what's the beef?
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
28
It's so important to know what being 'under the law' means.

It does not mean we do not have to keep and fulfill the law anymore as most in the church say that, for certainly not being under the law anymore does not mean we do not have to keep the law "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Leviticus 19:18).

Not being under the law anymore means we are no longer under the condemnation of the law. For two reasons: 1) we can actually keep it and be characterized as one who obeys God now, and, so we don't come into the condemnation of the law that way, and 2) when we don't obey the law as we should Christ's forgiveness is there to rescue us from the condemnation of the law we have broken.
Ahhhh.. I get it, Christ is like a back up plan. Plan B to your plan A. Just in case.

So He sacrificed everything, bore the sin of the whole world, so He could be a backup plan for when you accidentally flip the bird to your neighbor?
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
A lot of the debate here relies on questions about church history and where do we really
come from in terms of ideas and traditions.

It is amazing how so many project as if this is all so new. But actually I am coming to realise
it is probably just another variation of what came before. The quick route might be to learn
what conclusions history took to see where it will probably end.

Ryan Reeves looks like a good place to start, lol.
[video=youtube;MQIwCHvU8gU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQIwCHvU8gU[/video]

But then for those who are so certain they know what they are talking about ofcourse
actually studying and learning might be too difficult a task. God bless you all.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
The question I have is, if the reformation killed 25% of Europe, was this a good thing or
just part of the total lostness of both sides?

Where the Anabaptists peaceful or the terrorist revolutionaries of their day?
If the apostles were not that fussed about full immersion or sprinkling, why should we be?
Are we just rebels against institutions and real study, or true followers of Christ?
 
W

willybob

Guest
Hi FranC,

I will help out. Heb 10:26-27 means exactly what God says....

Heb 10:26-27,
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

If we choose to continue in wilful known sin we are not believing Gods Word and will be lost and not saved because sin is the transgression of God's Law and the wages of sin is death (1John 3:4; Rom 6:23) Hope this helps those struggling with the verses :rolleyes:
very true sir, it equates to the parable of the wondering spirit, but most dont want to hear it...Paul asked; if I tell you the truth does it offend you? ................be blessed
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Yes....a SPOT of tea from the TEAologians..........with a WORKSCUIT........!!
A spot of tea?

You've been hangin' in Australia too long!

With a Worksquit?

Always thinking about WORK...
work work work.

Stop already..
and just do what Jesus wants you to do.

Are you a good daddy?
A good husband?
A good Brother/uncle/cousin?
A good soldier?
You talk about God?
You help people out when in need?

See. You're WORKING.
Just don't THINK about it.

Bon Nuit.