The Rapture
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You are correct, but you only gave half the story; so you can support false pre tribulation rapture doctrine . It is true Paul warn of the preterits view which existed back then too, but he also warned against the false pretribulation rapture view even as Jesus did; for instance, Paul tells us what must precede the return of Christ for the rapture only he doesn't call it rapture; that translated term doesn't even exist in the Bible.
IOW, if certain things have to happen first before we are gathered together to meet the Lord in the air, then that blows pretrib rapture doctrine out of the water. It is simple to understand; all you have to do is accept what the Scripture says without reading into it things that are not there.
No one disputes this or calls it deception!
No one disputes this or calls it deception!
No one disputes this or calls it deception! But what is deceptive is to purposely substitute the term God's wrath for Tribulation. Jesus said, "In the world you have tribulation, but be of good cheer I have overcome the world. " It is also written "those that live godly in Christ will suffer persecution." That means trials , tribulation and testing, but God will keep us from that hour (being consumed by it not raptured); it doesn't mean He'll rapture nor does Scripture say you'll be rapture from being martyr by the antichrist and his cronies. Paul said we must see the antichrist before Jesus gathers us together. So please don't give partial truth to push a false rapture doctrine of pretribulation.
No one denies this either, but many Christians will experience a time of tribulation such as never been nor will ever be again and there is no promise that they won't experience any of it by being rapture, but there is a promise that God will shorten those days lest no flesh should survive. Pre tribulation rapture doctrine is false teaching and flies in the face of sound doctrine.
No one denies this either or calls it deception.
When the fifth seal was opened the souls cried out "How long holy and true does thou not judge and avenge our blood on those that dwell on the earth? White ropes were given to them and they were told to rest for a season until their fellow servants should be kill should be fulfilled. That means no escape by rapture from your cable ultra high definition color TV sets, internet and sleep number beds with your electric blankets. After we have suffered with Him then we'll rule with Him. Pre tribulation rapture is deception; Paul tells us and so does Jesus Christ Read 2 Thes 2 and Matthew 24 and repent.
IOW, if certain things have to happen first before we are gathered together to meet the Lord in the air, then that blows pretrib rapture doctrine out of the water. It is simple to understand; all you have to do is accept what the Scripture says without reading into it things that are not there.
No one disputes this or calls it deception!
No one disputes this or calls it deception!
No one disputes this or calls it deception! But what is deceptive is to purposely substitute the term God's wrath for Tribulation. Jesus said, "In the world you have tribulation, but be of good cheer I have overcome the world. " It is also written "those that live godly in Christ will suffer persecution." That means trials , tribulation and testing, but God will keep us from that hour (being consumed by it not raptured); it doesn't mean He'll rapture nor does Scripture say you'll be rapture from being martyr by the antichrist and his cronies. Paul said we must see the antichrist before Jesus gathers us together. So please don't give partial truth to push a false rapture doctrine of pretribulation.
No one denies this either, but many Christians will experience a time of tribulation such as never been nor will ever be again and there is no promise that they won't experience any of it by being rapture, but there is a promise that God will shorten those days lest no flesh should survive. Pre tribulation rapture doctrine is false teaching and flies in the face of sound doctrine.
No one denies this either or calls it deception.
When the fifth seal was opened the souls cried out "How long holy and true does thou not judge and avenge our blood on those that dwell on the earth? White ropes were given to them and they were told to rest for a season until their fellow servants should be kill should be fulfilled. That means no escape by rapture from your cable ultra high definition color TV sets, internet and sleep number beds with your electric blankets. After we have suffered with Him then we'll rule with Him. Pre tribulation rapture is deception; Paul tells us and so does Jesus Christ Read 2 Thes 2 and Matthew 24 and repent.
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People use Pauls mention of wrath constantly to justify the Pre Trib rapture theory. I
notice how they never complete the verse or the context surrounding it.
This is what Paul actually says...
But ye brethren are not in darkness that that day should
overtake you as a thief. Ye are all children of the day
we are not of the night not of darkness. Therefore let us
not sleep as do others let us watch and be sober. For they
that sleep sleep in the night and they that be drunken are
drunken in the night. But let us who are of the day be sober
putting on the breastplate of faith and love and for an helmet
the hope of salvation. For God has not appointed us to wrath
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ who died for us
that whether we wake or sleep we should live together with him.
1 Thess 5:4-10
Paul is saying that it is salvation through faith in Christ is our protection from
wrath not through avoiding the tribulation. The wrath of God spoken of is
eternal wrath in Hell which the unsaved, those in darkness will face
notice how they never complete the verse or the context surrounding it.
This is what Paul actually says...
But ye brethren are not in darkness that that day should
overtake you as a thief. Ye are all children of the day
we are not of the night not of darkness. Therefore let us
not sleep as do others let us watch and be sober. For they
that sleep sleep in the night and they that be drunken are
drunken in the night. But let us who are of the day be sober
putting on the breastplate of faith and love and for an helmet
the hope of salvation. For God has not appointed us to wrath
but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ who died for us
that whether we wake or sleep we should live together with him.
1 Thess 5:4-10
Paul is saying that it is salvation through faith in Christ is our protection from
wrath not through avoiding the tribulation. The wrath of God spoken of is
eternal wrath in Hell which the unsaved, those in darkness will face
Your point is moot tanakh, as the believer is not appointed to suffer any wrath, whether the wrath that is about to take place on this planet nor the wrath at the great white throne judgment where they will separated from God and cast into the lake of fire.
Believers in Christ are not appointed to suffer any wrath at all and that because Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that all believers deserve, satisfying it completely.
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them."
I continue to proclaim it, that you people don't understand the severity of God's wrath via the seals, trumpet and bowl judgments, which is coming upon the earth. If you did, you would not be believing and teaching that the church will be protected during God's wrath.
in other word these verse tell us that faith protect us from hell. Nothing to do with end time wrath, or tribulation.
I believe 7 years tribulation when antichrist in power, he will persecute every body that not take mark of the beast. The persecution that come from antichrist is not a God wrath.
I do not know if some God wrath also happen during 7 years tribulation. It may, but God able to protect us from His wrath.
like God protect Noah, because Noah not the target of God wrath.
but some time God not physically protect Christian from persecutions.
Example, God not physically protect Stephen, when Paul and his geng kill him.
I believe the day of the Lord in 2 thesalonians 2. Pronoun of second coming and rapture
example : John, James, and Peter going to the market. They wear T shirt.
they in this sentence is pronoun for John, James and Peter. We do not need to repeat john, James and Peter in the second .
sentence
This is what happen in 2 thesalonians 2.
Paul said: concerning second coming and rapture ...........
the day day of the Lord ..........
so so the day of the Lord in this phrase is pronoun of second coming and rapture
Get Ginger for your iOS!Pronouns
What is a Pronoun?
In grammar, a pronoun is defined as a word or phrase that may be substituted for a noun or noun phrase, which once replaced, is known as the pronoun’s antecedent. How is this possible
I believe 7 years tribulation when antichrist in power, he will persecute every body that not take mark of the beast. The persecution that come from antichrist is not a God wrath.
I do not know if some God wrath also happen during 7 years tribulation. It may, but God able to protect us from His wrath.
like God protect Noah, because Noah not the target of God wrath.
but some time God not physically protect Christian from persecutions.
Example, God not physically protect Stephen, when Paul and his geng kill him.
I believe the day of the Lord in 2 thesalonians 2. Pronoun of second coming and rapture
example : John, James, and Peter going to the market. They wear T shirt.
they in this sentence is pronoun for John, James and Peter. We do not need to repeat john, James and Peter in the second .
sentence
This is what happen in 2 thesalonians 2.
Paul said: concerning second coming and rapture ...........
the day day of the Lord ..........
so so the day of the Lord in this phrase is pronoun of second coming and rapture
Get Ginger for your iOS!Pronouns
What is a Pronoun?
In grammar, a pronoun is defined as a word or phrase that may be substituted for a noun or noun phrase, which once replaced, is known as the pronoun’s antecedent. How is this possible
Sorry I am going to make correction
is not concerning second coming but the second coming and the rapture
To make grammartically correct prefix the must be put before that word.
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3
is not concerning second coming but the second coming and the rapture
To make grammartically correct prefix the must be put before that word.
2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3
No, believing Jews stopped going to Jerusalem after the letter to the Romans (circa AD58) warned of impending judgement, and the letter to the Hebrews (circa AD60) informed them that Temple practices were defunct. They also should have understood all this from the Olivet Prophecy, that the time was fast approaching to shun Jerusalem, but these two letters are the final nails in Jerusalem's coffin.
[h=3]2 thesalonians 2[/h]2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
if the day of the Lord mean God wrath, mean that day will not come before 7 years antichrist administration
so the order is
7 years antichrist administration, than the wrath of God.
if you believe that order than rapture is after tribulation but before wrath of God.
In rev 11:3 mention 1260 day
daniel 12:11-12 mention 1335 days
there is extra 75 days,
may be, after tribulation then rapture, than God wrath for 75 days.
With that level of calamity, all the star fall down from the sky, big earth quake water turn to blood, we do not need 7 years to kill the earth population. If no power and no water in the summer, it will kill a lot of population.
summer in one part of the world, may winter in other part.
if the day of the Lord mean God wrath, mean that day will not come before 7 years antichrist administration
so the order is
7 years antichrist administration, than the wrath of God.
if you believe that order than rapture is after tribulation but before wrath of God.
In rev 11:3 mention 1260 day
daniel 12:11-12 mention 1335 days
there is extra 75 days,
may be, after tribulation then rapture, than God wrath for 75 days.
With that level of calamity, all the star fall down from the sky, big earth quake water turn to blood, we do not need 7 years to kill the earth population. If no power and no water in the summer, it will kill a lot of population.
summer in one part of the world, may winter in other part.
Jeremiah 19
[FONT="]19 Thus saith the Lord, Go and get a potter's earthen bottle, and take of the ancients of the people, and of the ancients of the priests;[/FONT]
[FONT="]2 And go forth unto the valley of the son of Hinnom, which is by the entry of the east gate, and proclaim there the words that I shall tell thee,[/FONT]
[FONT="]3 And say, Hear ye the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah, and inhabitants of Jerusalem; Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, the which whosoever heareth, his ears shall tingle.[/FONT]
[FONT="]4 Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents;[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 And I will make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place; and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hands of them that seek their lives: and their carcases will I give to be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 And I will make this city desolate, and an hissing; every one that passeth thereby shall be astonished and hiss because of all the plagues thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]9 And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 Then shalt thou break the bottle in the sight of the men that go with thee,[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 And shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Even so will I break this people and this city, as one breaketh a potter's vessel, that cannot be made whole again: and they shall bury them in Tophet, till there be no place to bury.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 Thus will I do unto this place, saith the Lord, and to the inhabitants thereof, and even make this city as Tophet:[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 And the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses of the kings of Judah, shall be defiled as the place of Tophet, because of all the houses upon whose roofs they have burned incense unto all the host of heaven, and have poured out drink offerings unto other gods.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 Then came Jeremiah from Tophet, whither the Lord had sent him to prophesy; and he stood in the court of the Lord's house; and said to all the people,[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will bring upon this city and upon all her towns all the evil that I have pronounced against it, because they have hardened their necks, that they might not hear my words.[/FONT]
"He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him." - Dan.9:27
The ruler, that antichrist (AC), will establish his covenant for seven years with Israel, allowing them to build their temple. For the first 3 1/2 years they will be performing sacrifices and offering according to the law given by Moses. In the middle of the seven years, he, the anitchrist, will cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. It is also at this time when the AC will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God, as described by Paul 2 Thes.2:4.
That last 3 1/2 years will also be the time when the beast/antichrist is given authority over the great tribulation saints to make war and to conquer them.
That entire seven years is God's tribulation, not Satan's or man's. Certainly Satan, the beast and the false prophet will be performing their events, but that seven years is God's time of tribulation, his wrath. And that because that last seven years will be the fulfillment of the prophecy of seventy seven year periods that was pronounced on Israel and Jerusalem in Dan.9:24. God will be using Satan, the beast and the false prophet to carry out His will. After all, God is the One who wrote all of the activities of that last seven years in His word.
The ruler, that antichrist (AC), will establish his covenant for seven years with Israel, allowing them to build their temple. For the first 3 1/2 years they will be performing sacrifices and offering according to the law given by Moses. In the middle of the seven years, he, the anitchrist, will cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. It is also at this time when the AC will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God, as described by Paul 2 Thes.2:4.
That last 3 1/2 years will also be the time when the beast/antichrist is given authority over the great tribulation saints to make war and to conquer them.
That entire seven years is God's tribulation, not Satan's or man's. Certainly Satan, the beast and the false prophet will be performing their events, but that seven years is God's time of tribulation, his wrath. And that because that last seven years will be the fulfillment of the prophecy of seventy seven year periods that was pronounced on Israel and Jerusalem in Dan.9:24. God will be using Satan, the beast and the false prophet to carry out His will. After all, God is the One who wrote all of the activities of that last seven years in His word.