Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

By adding works to salvation/eternal life either at the front, back or middle puts God in our debt a person does this when they say salvation is not secure in Jesus or there is some work attached to it.

Why because when we are working then there is a wage due for eternal life, this means we are expecting payment

for a work He has declared that He has done through Christ Jesus and He has said it is a gift.

He cannot be in our debt for salvation/eternal life, this renders it not of grace.

If I give you a gift and you insist on working for it then you make my gift a wage due rather than a gift, that is insulting. Capiche?

Paul is very clear about this:
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" (Romans 4:4-6).

UG
This popped up when I was closing down...

So, here we are.

WORKS, which Jesus commanded of us, are now an insult to God ?????

Gotta go...

 

[garee]

If you, believer, who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ trample on the blood of Christ in a return to your old life of unbelief, you will not be chastised as a Son is lovingly chastised, you will be burned up with the rest of God's enemies at the Judgment as an unbeliever.

It would seem you are turning things upside down as if the work says of him that made it he has no understanding . the apostate Jews were known for that

According to what you offered salvation is dependant on sinners and not Christ. Did the Son of man die in vain?

That portion of scripture is not saying we are saved by a work we could do and call it grace. We are saved by the work Christ did. Its his grace that saves us All sin is unbelief even the secret sins that a persons hides in his heart.

The living word judges the intent of our heart. If we are looking for credit for the work he performs in us by something we could do and call that grace that adds to His .He sends a strong delusion o in order to keep he lie

It’s a reminder to the Christian that when they do sin, not accidentally, or the devil made n me do it Because of His love for us he will turn us toward himself .Its the unbeliever that receives the strong delusion for him to believe the lie. He turns us by brining his thoughts to our mind which he has taught us so that then after turning us we can repent. This is as the Spirit of Christ works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteous ,like that of Abraham or Rehab the prostitute.

 

[Meggido]

Meggido,

What does it mean that you work UNTO God?
What do you mean that works after salvation re IN Him?

You said you are not working FOR God... who are you working for ? The evil one?

You see, there are only two paths --- the path toward God and the path toward destruction.
I believe all of us here (maybe ALL is a big word?) are saved.

And we're all working.

So what does WORK mean anyway?

In John 15:6 Jesus says that if anyone DOES NOT ABIDE in Him, he will be thrown away as a branch and will dry up, be cast into the fire and burned.

In John 15:14 JESUS says that if we are His friends, we WILL DO what HE commanded us.


I guess we should find out what He commanded us since He did speak a lot about it.
Some might post that our work is to BELIEVE in Him whom God has sent.
Is this ALL JESUS SAID? No. He spoke a lot about what we are TO DO.

John 14:21
Jesus said that he who KEEPS HIS COMMANDMENTS (see, there ARE commandments) is the person that loves Jesus.

John 14:24
Jesus said that the person who does NOT love Him, does not keep His words. Words means teachings. OR Commandments, same thing when it's coming from GOD.


So it sounds like you don't like keeping the word of Jesus.
Or do you simply mean that AFTER we're born againg EVERYTHING good that we do is done for the glory of God and so that we can work in HIS Kingdom and KEEP HIS WORD.

Or do you simply mean that AFTER we're born againg EVERYTHING good that we do is done for the glory of God and so that we can work in HIS Kingdom and KEEP HIS WORD.

<<<<<<I mean this....

Jesus asked 3 men to dig a 7x7x7 rectangular hole with him...

The first man grabbed his shovel and began digging alone...he dug and dug and finally his body gave up, his hands were bloody and rubbed raw and he climbed out of a 2 foot round hole and stopped and walked away...


The 2nd man began digging alone...after bit of time, he asked Jesus to direct his efforts and Jesus told the man what to do.....the man put on a pair of work gloves and continued asking Jesus for direction....this man finally stopped as well...tired, exhausted...and he jumped out of a 4 foot round hole and walked away...

The 3rd man looked at Jesus and handed him another shovel and also asked for direction.....in 15 minutes Both Jesus and the 3rd man finished working....and holding each others hands they jumped out of a perfectly excavated 7x7x7 rectangular hole....


The 1st man worked for Jesus

The 2nd man worked with Jesus

The 3rd man worked UNTO Jesus.

 

[stonesoffire]

its inevitable to many that one gets saved in their sin, lives in their sin daily in thought, word, and deed, and then dies in their sin. But wala, its PIE IN THE SKY WHEN YOU DIE, IN THE SWEET BYE AND BYE.... no wonder the outside world looks down and mocks professed Christianity, it was said to be that way in Ezekiel 16...They even appear naked to the heathen by standers looking on, let alone to real followers with discernment..

Is it Christians that are in the news daily willybob? And do all the members of churches party harty Saturday night, then drag themselves into morning service Sunday? Is it Christians rioting in the streets during the elections?

Isn't it true that Christians are taken from darkness and placed into the body of Christ "instantly upon repentance and turning to God" ? The Kingdom of Gods own Son...a Kingdom of light? And do not Christians witness of this great salvation that God hath wrought?

If the world wants to criticize then what spirit is the world of anyway?

We aren't perfect, that is true...but we are placed into the perfect One. And eventually our minds are renewed to understanding just what and who we are...yet will always be "IN HIM".

You criticize Christians...are you not criticizing Jesus too?

 

[dcontroversal]

By adding works to salvation/eternal life either at the front, back or middle puts God in our debt a person does this when they say salvation is not secure in Jesus or there is some work attached to it.

Why because when we are working then there is a wage due for eternal life, this means we are expecting payment

for a work He has declared that He has done through Christ Jesus and He has said it is a gift.

He cannot be in our debt for salvation/eternal life, this renders it not of grace.

If I give you a gift and you insist on working for it then you make my gift a wage due rather than a gift, that is insulting. Capiche?

Paul is very clear about this:
"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works" (Romans 4:4-6).

Love the bolded....many reject this to their own demise......

 

[dcontroversal]

Is it Christians that are in the news daily willybob? And do all the members of churches party harty Saturday night, then drag themselves into morning service Sunday? Is it Christians rioting in the streets during the elections?

Isn't it true that Christians are taken from darkness and placed into the body of Christ "instantly upon repentance and turning to God" ? The Kingdom of Gods own Son...a Kingdom of light? And do not Christians witness of this great salvation that God hath wrought?

If the world wants to criticize then what spirit is the world of anyway?

We aren't perfect, that is true...but we are placed into the perfect One. And eventually our minds are renewed to understanding just what and who we are...yet will always be "IN HIM".

You criticize Christians...are you not criticizing Jesus too?

He has a fetish with sin....that is all he speaks about....and how he is ABOVE it all....those who believe in grace dai faith salvation are the worst sinners on the earth and even though we have an honest evaluation about sin and what the bible has to say we most assuredly push a wicked live as we choose lifestyle.....just another sinless perfectionist pushing something that he himself cannot keep......makes me think of the Pharisee....I thank God I am not like so and so that old sinner........my righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisee....I am holy...and always walk the streets of gold.......!!

 

[BillG]

its inevitable to many that one gets saved in their sin, lives in their sin daily in thought, word, and deed, and then dies in their sin. But wala, its PIE IN THE SKY WHEN YOU DIE, IN THE SWEET BYE AND BYE.... no wonder the outside world looks down and mocks professed Christianity, it was said to be that way in Ezekiel 16...They even appear naked to the heathen by standers looking on, let alone to real followers with discernment..

Hi willybob,

Please correct me if I am wrong but I get the impression that anyone who does not necessarily agree with you theologically you assume that they just sin all the time, have no regard to their sin, enjoy it.

Your post above indicates they don't care about their sin and have no regard to what Jesus has done for them.

As I said please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[UnderGrace]

If only, if only, they could just read, question there themselves a bit, ponder a bit, ask the Holy Spirit for guidance,

be a good Berean, whatever it takes rather than looking for a rebuttal then maybe they would see!

However, I suspect some are here just to cause others to stumble. I guess that is why we keeping working too!

Did I say we are working...oh dear!!

ESV
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
John 1:5

Love the bolded....many reject this to their own demise......

 

[stonesoffire]

My wife and I have been married 23 years today.

i bet it's been hard work for her

Happy Anniversary to you both! Many more blessed years to live and love be yours in Jesus name!

*without the hard work* lol

 

[stonesoffire]

He has a fetish with sin....that is all he speaks about....and how he is ABOVE it all....those who believe in grace dai faith salvation are the worst sinners on the earth and even though we have an honest evaluation about sin and what the bible has to say we most assuredly push a wicked live as we choose lifestyle.....just another sinless perfectionist pushing something that he himself cannot keep......makes me think of the Pharisee....I thank God I am not like so and so that old sinner........my righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisee....I am holy...and always walk the streets of gold.......!!

And the thing is that it doesn't have to be sins that we commit that keeps us requiring only the blood of Jesus...it is the fact that we are a natural man without His Spirit. Imperfect unless we are in anothers perfection. Which is what Father requires for us to approach Him.

Not sinless perfection that we have to strive for.

It's so easy...but humanity in our self...trips over it.

 

[dcontroversal]

And the thing is that it doesn't have to be sins that we commit that keeps us requiring only the blood of Jesus...it is the fact that we are a natural man without His Spirit. Imperfect unless we are in anothers perfection. Which is what Father requires for us to approach Him.

Not sinless perfection that we have to strive for.

It's so easy...but humanity in our self...trips over it.

Amen....and I agree......

 

[JIMBO43]

it leads people to hell?

look at the story of jonah and how God went to so much trouble to make people repent....................

The WHOLE BOOK OF THE GOSPEL ,,,,,,,,,,,,,BIBLE,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IS MOSTLY ALL ABOUT WORKS... IT IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE A BOOK OF WORKS..


it is a work to plough the lands for an harvest,,,,,,,,,


it is a works to fruit in to a kind heart GIVER AND DOER OF THE BOOK OF WORKERS (THE BIBLE)


ONE DAY YOULL SLAP YOUR SELF WITH A FISH,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,AND YOULL WAKE UP...


YOUll DISCOVERS THE BIBLE IS ALSO A BOOK OF INSTRUCTIONS,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


God made a plant and performed a works so that living creature great and small could live...


Along came mr know it all oil sucking drilling fracking Mr trump and sucked the plannet dry... and boom the end of days created by man............................

There a good chance our Gospels will be re wrote.... to includes Good works will see you right with God God bless you and have a nice day et


i would phone home and ask for some works and tell him your ready !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JIMBO43]

If only, if only, they could just read, question there themselves a bit, ponder a bit, ask the Holy Spirit for guidance,

be a good Berean, whatever it takes rather than looking for a rebuttal then maybe they would see!

However, I suspect some are here just to cause others to stumble. I guess that is why we keeping working too!

Did I say we are working...oh dear!!

ESV
The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
John 1:5

how do you know we dont ponder ?... are yousaying your pondering is more worthy than our pondering ?...


it looks like your perfected here... are you sure your not the perfected worker.. ?

 

[JIMBO43]

Perfected worker ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,haha now theres an attribute at its finest.. Glorified and perfected iN GODS holiness to be a perfected superstar of there skills...WORKS AT ITS FINEST when you see our new legend Anthony joshua who will knock out all the americans........yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy come onnnnnnnnnnnnn....

 

[PeterJens]

Adding breathing to life is denying you are alive. Adding eating to life is bringing death
to yourself, we are alive without breathing or eating. True, but not for long.

If you want to know false teachers they remove something fundamental to spiritual life.
Abide in Christ and live, do not abide die.

You are born to God in Christ. Walk away and you will die inside. How can people of the
light claim there is no issue if you return to darkness. Only those who have never experienced
the light truly would talk like this. And why would those who love Christ and His ways deny them
and expect Him to welcome them with open arms.

What is odd is quoting God excuting judgement on Israel for worshiping the golden calf as being
a statement not of judgement on unbelief of believers but judgement of non believers. The confidence
is God does not mind sin and rebellion in His people, when clearly He does.

Why people feel condemnation because of this rather than repentance I do not understand, but then
repentance of all their sins has never been their position, so any compromise comes easy.

Head and heart is our walk, so let us walk on.

 

[JIMBO43]

Originally Posted by JIMBO43

can i just ask whats wrong with a works Gospel ?..

A "works Gospel" would be an oxymoron.
1. It would leave your sin debt unpaid no matter how hard you worked for your salvation.
2. It would demand that you be as perfect as the Lord Jesus Christ and that would never happen.
3. It would simply leave you just as lost as before and heading for Hell.

Human beings can do absolutely nothing for their salvation. That is why the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ became a Divine Necessity.
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. (1 Peter 1:18-21).

you look at a works gospel like an animal woul rip a human to bits lika savage oil drilling mr trump..

with no reguard for what the works gospel stands for.

the only credit i can give you is a thankyou for making me see the bible is a book of works

 

[Sully]

Originally Posted by JIMBO43

can i just ask whats wrong with a works Gospel ?..

Pages 1-1035 Have fun.

 

[PeterJens]

If you see Christ desires you walk like Him in love, amen.

If this is far off from your heart, ask the Lord to anoint you with the Holy Spirit, and you will.
We are called to live Holy, pure lives, but it appears not for all.

For those who say compromise is ok, where in scripture is this or is it just they feel defeated
and not forgiven and empowered though Jesus says they are!!!!

 

[JIMBO43]

Adding breathing to life is denying you are alive. Adding eating to life is bringing death
to yourself, we are alive without breathing or eating. True, but not for long.

If you want to know false teachers they remove something fundamental to spiritual life.
Abide in Christ and live, do not abide die.

You are born to God in Christ. Walk away and you will die inside. How can people of the
light claim there is no issue if you return to darkness. Only those who have never experienced
the light truly would talk like this. And why would those who love Christ and His ways deny them
and expect Him to welcome them with open arms.

What is odd is quoting God excuting judgement on Israel for worshiping the golden calf as being
a statement not of judgement on unbelief of believers but judgement of non believers. The confidence
is God does not mind sin and rebellion in His people, when clearly He does.

Why people feel condemnation because of this rather than repentance I do not understand, but then
repentance of all their sins has never been their position, so any compromise comes easy.

Head and heart is our walk, so let us walk on.

hi mate its like this,,,,,,,,,,,, what Good is book of works and instructions if your not following that instruction.. ? so there for your either a doer and a hearer or your just a hearer for now...


however its clear that instruction says be a doer of the word also.... meaning faith a lone does not save... and how are you peter pan lol...

 

[JIMBO43]

Pages 1-1035 Have fun.

naaaaaaaaaaaaaaa i dont fancy a backslide on the works of the word by bad workers thankyou......