Not By Works

[PeterJens]

definition of abide- to bear patiently , to endure without yielding , to accept without rejection, to remain stable in a fixed state, to continue in a place.

nothing about doing enough good works to maintain salvation. good works are a result in the BELIEF and acceptance of Christ.

learn what words mean instead of just throwing them around.

I am sorry gb9. I have not mentioned good works, or maintaining salvation.
You are projecting again, and then correcting your own straw man that you have created in
your own mind.

Jesus is very specific about what abiding is.

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
John 15:7

Abiding is letting Jesus's words staying in our hearts. It is actually a simple idea, letting His instructions
guide our thoughts and actions, and not run off on our own, believing we have the message and insight
and it can never depart from us. I know all to well how this goes, and how quickly I stop abiding and
forget the words of life.

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Have you ever sinned? We all know you still sin - so now we could say that you are not born of God and God does not abide in you nor do you know God.

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

But John says that he who has sinned has not seen God.

So, when you did sin ( and you still do ) - this means that you have never known God because it is impossible for the one born of God to sin. 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18

Can you see the mess that comes from not understanding the new creation in Christ and what Christ has done for us?

That we are "in the spirit" now and not "in the flesh" where sin resides. Romans 7:17-22 and Romans 8:9-10

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

We know what "you mean" by sinning and keeping Jesus' commandments.

I know your trying to get Christians to all follow the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament because you think meeting to worship the Lord on a Sunday is the mark of the beast. We worship the Lord everyday! Christ alone is our true Sabbath rest. Heb. 4 and Col. 2:16-17

I have told you many times - we will not fall for this deception.

 

[PHart]

Well your plain sense reading means you interpret it from your own frame of reference and bias....where is the word unbelief?

Pages and pages of text show us that the falling away the Hebrews are contemplating is a return to Moses and away from Jesus. That's called 'unbelief'. The author is exhorting them to not lose confidence (read 'faith') in Jesus. He wrote pages and pages of text explaining how Jesus is far and above superior to the Levitical system they apparently want to return to. The willful sinning that will remove the efficacy of the sacrifice of Jesus from them is their unbelief in that sacrifice. It doesn't remain for the person who departs from it in unbelief. You lose it, and with it your protection from the coming wrath of God.

These words are written to bring courage and exhortation to the Hebrews, to carry forward under great duress and persecution because Jesus has obtained a more excellent ministry, greater than Melchisedec, assuring the reader plainly that it is impossible to be renewed again unto repentance meaning it can only be done once, never to be repeated thereby assuring our salvation because other wise it shames the cross of Christ saying His work was insufficient Hebrews 6:4 ..... instead you read condemnation.

It is those that insult the spirit of grace that will receive the greater punishment....and punishment does not always mean damnation..but of course in plain reading it does, especially when one is looking for it.

This horrible twisting of scripture comes right from the mouths of demons. When you hear a voice say it insults God's grace to continue to rely on it you're hearing from a demon.

You do not re-sacrifice Jesus when you maintain a constant faith in his blood to keep you justified before the Father. You're simply 'holding fast' the gospel word about that sacrifice. Demonic spirits are lying to the church and deceiving them into thinking that Hebrews means you do not have to 'hold fast' the gospel about the blood because that would be insulting to God.

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

"23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:23-24 NASB)

"15“But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance." (Luke 8:15 NASB)

The enemy is the one telling the church they don't have to endure to the end, which is great news for men defeated by porn addictions, and women defeated by their fearful desire to not want to submit to their husband's authority. Both very big, big problems in our western culture these days. But nothing that God's grace can't overcome in a person. In fact, that's why he gave it (Titus 2:11-12). God's grace was not given so we can languish in our sins with impunity in regard to salvation as if grace was not a license to sin. Jude makes it very clear what will happen to those who have been teaching the church that:

"I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." (Jude 1:3-4 NASB)

And Jesus, too, makes it clear what the outcome is for the person who leads little ones who believe in him to stumble and go to the eternal fire:

"6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!
8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." (Matthew 18:6-9 NASB)

 

[LoveGodForever]

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

Have you ever sinned? We all know you still sin - so now we could say that you are not born of God and God does not abide in you nor do you know God. Can you see the mess that comes from not understanding the new creation in Christ and what Christ has done for us? We know what "you mean" by sinning and keeping Jesus' commandments. I know your trying to get Christians to all follow the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament because you think meeting to worship the Lord on a Sunday is the mark of the beast. We worship the Lord everyday! Christ alone is our true Sabbath rest. Heb. 4 and Col. 2:16-17
I have told you many times - we will not fall for this deception.

What you are saying is not what I am saying. You do not know what I am saying because your eyes are closed. Read my post 19989 if you want to know what I believe. Jesus says, if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jesus came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

God bless.

 

[PHart]

God's grace was not given so we can languish in our sins with impunity in regard to salvation as if grace was not a license to sin.

Correction: ...as if grace was a license to sin.

 

[Grace777x70]

What you are saying is not what I am saying. You do not know what I am saying because your eyes are closed. Read my post 19989 if you want to know what I believe. Jesus says, if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jesus came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

God bless.

So, when you do sin - does this mean that you have never known God like 1 John 3 says?

1 John 3:5-6 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him.

Here John says that the "one born of God cannot sin".

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Without understanding the new creation in Christ - we can make all kinds of man-made thoughts up in order to "get around" the truth of these scriptures.

One common one is trying to get Christians to live by the law as in the Old Testament in order to maintain "their" righteousness.

 

[LoveGodForever]

we can make all kinds of man-made thoughts up in order to "get around" the truth of these scriptures.

We should not be doing what your suggesting we must obey God rather then man (Acts 5:29)

Rom 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[Grace777x70]

It is God's Word that teaches that His 7th Day Sabbath is just as much a part of God's Law as the other 9 and God tells us if we break one of these commandments (10) we are guilty before God as sinners because sin is the transgression of God's Law (James 2:10-12; 1John 3:4)



.

This was in your post #19989

This is 100% pure Judaizing and it is not the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. Christ alone is our true life - not in the Old Testament way of observing a day.

Telling Christians that they are sinning and dis-obeying God because they don't observe the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament is Judaizing and just as Paul said that he wouldn't stand in subjection to this type of nonsense for even one hour - so will we stand against this Judaizing spirit for what it is.

Galatians 2:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

The saints have been warned about this.

 

[dcontroversal]

Isaiah 43:13

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“From eternity to eternity I am God.
No one can snatch anyone out of my hand.
No one can undo what I have done.”

Those that have been truly "born from above" cannot "un-born" themselves by an act of their own un-renewed minds and sick thinking and "un-do" what God in Christ has done. It's religious nonsense.

AMEN....security of the believer.....the bible does teach it.....

 

[dcontroversal]

definition of abide- to bear patiently , to endure without yielding , to accept without rejection, to remain stable in a fixed state, to continue in a place.

nothing about doing enough good works to maintain salvation. good works are a result in the BELIEF and acceptance of Christ.

learn what words mean instead of just throwing them around.

Another good point....and lest we forget...one actually has to be born from above to understand the word......not just religious.....!

 

[Grace777x70]

AMEN....security of the believer.....the bible does tech it.....

I agree...but if we want to base our salvation on ourselves and not on Christ Himself - then we need to teach conditional salvation based on our own righteousness.

Romans 10:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

 

[dcontroversal]

Have you ever sinned? We all know you still sin - so now we could say that you are not born of God and God does not abide in you nor do you know God.

Obviously there is more to this then meets the natural eye and mind of man because we know that all Christians still sin from time to time ( The wilful sin thing is something that we 'add" to the text in order to try to "get around" it. )

This verse here in 1 John 3:9 says the same thing basically as 1 John 5:18...it says that the one born of God cannot sin.

I don't believe the new creation in Christ can sin as 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18 speaks about.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


It is definitely in the present tense which means "doing a sin now". Present tense is always present tense.

Whether it is one sin or a thousand sins. I don't believe the new creation in Christ where Christ dwells can be contaminated or touched by sin. This is what spiritual circumcision is all about. Col. 2:11

The body of the flesh has been "cut away" from the inner man that is sealed by the Holy Spirit. There is still sin in the flesh ( Romans 7:17-22) which is why He has removed us from sin as far as the east is from the west.

What happens to our spirit where Christ is joined as one with us when we sin if the theory that sin can reach our new man in Christ - which has been created in righteousness and holiness.

Do we go in and out of righteousness because it is NOT our righteousness but Christ's alone? Of course not. it's a bunch of religious nonsense.

Let's say we sinned ( and whatsoever is not of faith is sin so this could mean any type of sin ) and then we die in a car crash just after we got angry at someone and called them a name ( which Jesus says is a sin in Matt 5:22 ) - we have lost righteousness and thus not able to go to heaven?

There are so many problems when you really stop to ponder the ramifications with the theory that we lose our righteousness because sin touches the inner man in Christ. We don't have our own righteousness which is derived from the law ( which is what we do or don't do).

We have become the very righteousness of God in Christ.

We can sin by yielding our members in our flesh if we yield to it and we are responsible with what we do in our bodies.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

Jesus is keeping us from the evil one in our new creation in Christ.

Jesus had to deal with the sinless perfectionists as well....he called them white washed coffins filled with the bones of dead men, hypocrites, blind leaders of the blind and the "converts" they made were two fold the children of hell.....

 

[dcontroversal]

This was in your post #19989

This is 100% pure Judaizing and it is not the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. Christ alone is our true life - not in the Old Testament way of observing a day.

Telling Christians that they are sinning and dis-obeying God because they don't observe the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament is Judaizing and just as Paul said that he wouldn't stand in subjection to this type of nonsense for even one hour - so will we stand against this Judaizing spirit for what it is.

Galatians 2:4-5 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

The saints have been warned about this.

Law or grace.....end of story.....

One or the other and if one choses the law (works) then they are no longer under the banner of grace......and yes it is that simple.....

I choose Jesus and the out bounding grace of God

 

[LoveGodForever]

This was in your post #19989

This is 100% pure Judaizing and it is not the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. Christ alone is our true life - not in the Old Testament way of observing a day. Telling Christians that they are sinning and dis-obeying God because they don't observe the Sabbath day as outlined in the Old Testament is Judaizing and just as Paul said that he wouldn't stand in subjection to this type of nonsense for even one hour - so will we stand against this Judaizing spirit for what it is.

Grace777,

you are indeed a funny one if that is all you got from my post in 19989. You and all your Judaizing Spirits . I only present the Word of God to you. It is between you and God if you believe God or not. Jesus says, if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jesus came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. I believe God's Word so I must follow Him. Do you believe God's Word Grace777?

God bless.

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree...but if we want to base our salvation on ourselves and not on Christ Himself - then we need to teach conditional salvation based on our own righteousness.

Romans 10:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

AMEN....the END of the law for righteousness and the reason is.....

Blessed is the man to whom God IMPUTES righteousness by FAITH without the DEEDS of the law.

 

[Snoozy]

im not gonna read this thread from da beginning way too many pages but lemme hop on right here and say that if we wanna understand ephesians 2:8 properly we need ta find out what works is meant in ephesians 2:8-9. Is it repentance? is it calling on the name of the Lord? lets find out this to solve this issue.

 

[dcontroversal]

im not gonna read this thread from da beginning way too many pages but lemme hop on right here and say that if we wanna understand ephesians 2:8 properly we need ta find out what works is meant in ephesians 2:8-9. Is it repentance? is it calling on the name of the Lord? lets find out this to solve this issue.

Amen....It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[preacher4truth]

im not gonna read this thread from da beginning way too many pages but lemme hop on right here and say that if we wanna understand ephesians 2:8 properly we need ta find out what works is meant in ephesians 2:8-9. Is it repentance? is it calling on the name of the Lord? lets find out this to solve this issue.

Rockrz????

 

[Grace777x70]

Grace777,

you are indeed a funny one if that is all you got from my post in 19989. You and all your Judaizing Spirits . I only present the Word of God to you. It is between you and God if you believe God or not. Jesus says, if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jesus came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance. I believe God's Word so I must follow Him. Do you believe God's Word Grace777?

God bless.

I have told you before that I don't fall for the attempted spiritual manipulation of saying that "I'm only giving you the word of God. Why don't you believe the word of God. Do you love Jesus."

This is all "code" for "If you don't observe the Sabbath day as in the Old Testament - you don't believe the word of God like I do nor do you love Jesus because Jesus said - if you love Me you will keep my commandments".

I don't fall for religious attempts at spiritual manipulation like that but the saints have been warned to stay away from this religious nonsense and walk free in Christ and worship Him every day "in the spirit". For those that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth. Jesus said He is the truth.

God bless you too and I pray that your eyes be opened by the Father to see Christ Himself for what He has done for us and that He alone is our righteousness and our life and the Truth.

 

[UnderGrace]

The willful sinning that will remove the efficacy of the sacrifice of Jesus from them is their unbelief in that sacrifice.

So you are saying wilful sin = unbelief which is not covered by the cross.

It is obvious you refuse to see, and prefer to gaze at sin and its power rather than the complete and sufficient sacrifice.

It seems like the same problem the Hebrews were having?
For the born again believer salvation is eternal this IS the gospel and there is no other.


Hebrews 10 11-14
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. [SUP]14[/SUP]For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Pages and pages of text show us that the falling away the Hebrews are contemplating is a return to Moses and away from Jesus. That's called 'unbelief'. The author is exhorting them to not lose confidence (read 'faith') in Jesus. He wrote pages and pages of text explaining how Jesus is far and above superior to the Levitical system they apparently want to return to. The willful sinning that will remove the efficacy of the sacrifice of Jesus from them is their unbelief in that sacrifice. It doesn't remain for the person who departs from it in unbelief. You lose it, and with it your protection from the coming wrath of God.




This horrible twisting of scripture comes right from the mouths of demons. When you hear a voice say it insults God's grace to continue to rely on it you're hearing from a demon.

You do not re-sacrifice Jesus when you maintain a constant faith in his blood to keep you justified before the Father. You're simply 'holding fast' the gospel word about that sacrifice. Demonic spirits are lying to the church and deceiving them into thinking that Hebrews means you do not have to 'hold fast' the gospel about the blood because that would be insulting to God.

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

"23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father." (1 John 2:23-24 NASB)

"15“But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance." (Luke 8:15 NASB)

The enemy is the one telling the church they don't have to endure to the end, which is great news for men defeated by porn addictions, and women defeated by their fearful desire to not want to submit to their husband's authority. Both very big, big problems in our western culture these days. But nothing that God's grace can't overcome in a person. In fact, that's why he gave it (Titus 2:11-12). God's grace was not given so we can languish in our sins with impunity in regard to salvation as if grace was not a license to sin. Jude makes it very clear what will happen to those who have been teaching the church that:

"I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints. 4For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." (Jude 1:3-4 NASB)

And Jesus, too, makes it clear what the outcome is for the person who leads little ones who believe in him to stumble and go to the eternal fire:

"6but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

7“Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!
8“If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire. 9“If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell." (Matthew 18:6-9 NASB)