Not By Works

[JIMBO43]

We are all born into Adam, which is death for sure

NO WE ARE BORN BECOZ OF ADAM AND OTHER ADAMS ... HE WAS THE FIRST AND NOT THE LAST ADAM..

 

[Magenta]

NO WE ARE BORN BECOZ OF ADAM AND OTHER ADAMS ... HE WAS THE FIRST AND NOT THE LAST ADAM..

If we remain in the first Adam, we die the second death.

 

[FranC]

Seriously FranC, You keep vacillating from needing theology to not needing theology on this thread, depending on your current whim. Make up your mind.

Why do you call me FranC?
What do you think my name is?

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree but I still want to highlight "wilful sin" as a very specific reference within the context of this verse as a reference to specific Hebrew understanding at the time, which the author states in verse 9.

In the context of Hebrews "wilful sin" is defined.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]According to Hebrews, even Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) only covers 'sins of ignorance'

'But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance' (Heb 9:7, NIV)

The Old Testament sacrifices did not cover anything beyond 'sins of ignorance'.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Even then the fathers of faith committed wilful sin Abraham, Isaac, Jacob....where did they go for forgiveness? .... directly to God ...there was still grace back then. Amen!!

The author is saying if you go back to the Old System there is no sacrifice to cover "wilful sin" .... except judgement, but that judgement (which is not damnation) which would not be pleasant.

I reality they could not go back even if they wanted to but they could not yet understand.The entire letter is a comparison of the old versus the new, and why the new is better.
The writer is explaining to the Hebrews we have a better promise where all sins are covered.

This whole letter just tells me how hard it was for these Hebrews to wrap there mind around this new covenant, I guess we see that even still.

Hebrews 10:26 can be a stumbling block if we don't take the context in which this passage was written.

Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the rest of the book of Hebrews because of our religious church teachings handed down to us depending on our own denominational bias.

Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example in the scripture below - Ex 32:33. Anyone who has ever sinned is blotted out of God's book.

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

This is truly stated in the OT but it is not the ultimate statement of truth. The work of Jesus's finished work on the cross trumps what is said in Ex. 32:33.

Obviously we need to view all scripture through the finished work of Christ. We don't take obscure verses and discount the abundance of clear scriptures on what our Lord has done for us.

Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins.

Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.

The "willful sinning" is after hearing the "knowledge" of the truth of Christ's sacrifice - those that go back to the temple sacrifices and do not receive Christ's work by faith - this is the wilful sinning being talked about - the rejection of Christ's sacrifice and blood for the forgiveness of all sins.

This is insulting the Spirit of grace. The Holy Spirit's work is to convict/convince/expose the world of their sin - which is unbelief in Christ's work. John 16:8-9

There is a vast difference between receiving the "knowledge" of the truth and "receiving the truth" which is Christ Himself.

 

[Magenta]

Why do you call me FranC?
What do you think my name is?

Why did you call yourself FranC if you do not want to be called that?

 

[dcontroversal]

I agree but I still want to highlight "wilful sin" as a very specific reference within the context of this verse as a reference to specific Hebrew understanding at the time, which the author states in verse 9.

In the context of Hebrews "wilful sin" is defined.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]According to Hebrews, even Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) only covers 'sins of ignorance'

'But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance' (Heb 9:7, NIV)

The Old Testament sacrifices did not cover anything beyond 'sins of ignorance'.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Even then the fathers of faith committed wilful sin Abraham, Isaac, Jacob....where did they go for forgiveness? .... directly to God ...there was still grace back then. Amen!!

The author is saying if you go back to the Old System there is no sacrifice to cover "wilful sin" .... except judgement, but that judgement (which is not damnation) which would not be pleasant.

I reality they could not go back even if they wanted to but they could not yet understand.The entire letter is a comparison of the old versus the new and why the new is better.
The writer is explaining to the Hebrews we have a better promise where all sins are covered.

This whole letter just tells me how hard it was for these Hebrews to wrap there mind around this new covenant, I guess we see that even still.

Nice theology......according to the grand poobah of knowledge no one but the working for and sinless perfectionist crew uses theology

 

[JIMBO43]

If we remain in the first Adam, we die the second death.

Sin is washed clean and believers experiance peace like a washing over,,, and boom peace of mind...

I believe we have missing gospels and there was more than one adam ,,,,,, hence thr 4 species of humans.....

antarcites nothern.............southernites.........western....ites and of cause easternites....asian..

hahaa asian white african european.. = 4 adams end of story.. missing Gospels..

 

[BillG]

Why do you call me FranC?
What do you think my name is?

I assume because looking at your photo and above it says. FranC.

Mine says BillG

So I suppose I am BillG and others also assume that.

Although I have signed of with Bill at times at the end of my post.

 

[dcontroversal]

Must be a blind one on here....I see pretty much everyone posting scripture and discussing or proclaiming their beliefs....

the·ol·o·gy
THēˈäləjē/
noun
noun: theology

• the study of the nature of God and religious belief.
  
  
  • religious beliefs and theory when systematically developed
    
    
  
  
  
  

 

[FranC]

I agree with you.

Sins that we commit and know we are, well they are wilful sins.
Then some say that we can commit sins of ignorance and in fact they are not sins?
I don't get that, I really don't.
Yes we can commit sins of ignorance but a sacrifice still had/has to be made.

Leviticus 5:17-19


17 “If a person sins, and commits any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the Lord, though he does not know it, yet he is guilty and shall bear his iniquity. 18 And he shall bring to the priest a ram without blemish from the flock, with your valuation, as a trespass offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him regarding his ignorance in which he erred and did not know it, and it shall be forgiven him. 19 It is a trespass offering; he has certainly trespassed against the Lord.”

With regard to wilful sin there is a wilful sin that cannot be forgiven.


Numbers 15:30-31
Law Concerning Presumptuous Sin
30 ‘But the person who does anything presumptuously, whether he is native-born or a stranger, that one brings reproach on the Lord, and he shall be cut off from among his people. 31 Because he has despised the word of the Lord, and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt shall be upon him.’ ”


15:30, 31 The Hebrew phrase translated presumptuously means “with a high hand,” with open disdain for the will and work of God. This is a sin that is done, as it were, while looking God in the eye and shaking one’s fist at Him. (NKJV study notes)

The Sprit of Grace

Zechariah 12:10
Mourning for the Pierced One
10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.

In Numbers 15:31 Despised the word of God.

John 1:1-5


The Gospel According to
JOHN
Chapter 1
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

The word of God is Jesus.

The study notes for Numbers above "disdain for the will and work of God"

What is the will of God?

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

What is the work of God?

John 6:29


29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

There are those who say to sin wilfully as believers fall foul of the Hebrews passage being discussed.
Ans therefore no sacrifice remains for their sins.

Yes Paul's talks about the sins of the flesh, how those who continue do so will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
But he also says "This is what you were, now behave in what you are now"
"You are in Jesus now walk like him"

Now let's say and be honest we all have stuff we find difficult to overcome, but if we are truly in Jesus we keep coming before him and asking for help, saying "I don't want to be like this, why am I like this?

Now if someone feels that if a believer has a problem with an addiction but falls time and time again and it's a wilfull sin then no sacrifice remains for forgiveness of it therefore going to hell.

Thats not true because that is to deny

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

To me wilful sin is to reject Jesus full stop. To reject his atonement for our sin, to reject the word of God.
With a high hand and saying "The sacrifice Jesus made was not enough and I reject it, the one who was pierced on the cross so that the spirit of grace may save me was not enough"

It has nothing to do with a struggle with sin but rejecting the answer to hope of our struggle. That's basic at its very sense.

To reject the word is to reject Jesus, to reject Jesus, the sacrifice he made, to trample under foot the Son of God and count the blood covenant by which we are sanctified as not worthy.

That is wilful sin and that is what a person will be judged on.

My simple thoughts

So we're going to be judged ONLY on rejecting the Word?
°But many here do !

So how do you understand this:




John 5:27-30 New International Version (NIV)

27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice

29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.


This is JESUS speaking.
Did He say believe in Him and you'd be safe forever and for eternity?
Or did He say divide between those who did good deeds and those who did evil deeds?

So does doing good and evil have ANYTHING at all to do with being saved??

 

[Limey410v2]

The Study of God aka Theology SHOULD BE what we're doing here --- it's discussion.

I fail to find it here.
I hear many fluffy comments, but no theology.

Stone posts theology. Which reminds me of Hebrews.
I can't think of anyone else.

Seems like those who are on the side of Obedience of Faith DO post theology.
Which kind of proves that they know their bible AND Christian concepts.

For instance, read my page long post to you, just a few posts above...
and then read YOUR reply.

Do YOU like theology???

P.S. posts: 879 and 881

I've explained my position to you on Theology a number of times. Feel free to re-read. Yet I will again summarize seeing that the lens that you look at scripture seems to be from a human theological perspective.

As you said, theology is the study of God.

As I have said it is not the knowledge of Him.

Anyone can pick up a Bible and study God.

But to truly know God takes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (Even your theologians should know that).

So you can put God under your microscope and study Him, but that will not reveal Him.

His character is revealed by reading the scriptures with the Holy Spirit as the teacher.

Theology is a tool that can help, but the Spirit is my guide.

 

[UnderGrace]

Thanks, I came under tremendous fire once, by someone trying to convince me I was condemned using Hebrews, so I had to understand for myself and the Holy Spirit He does guide and lead in those dark moments ....all glory to Him always!

Nice theology......according to the grand poobah of knowledge no one but the working for and sinless perfectionist crew uses theology

 

[stonesoffire]

And I thank Him every day for His Grace and Mercy.


I don't however believe that it is obsolete, scripture tells us it is an everlasting covenant.

I do believe that it can be used for its proper purpose, which is to point people to Jesus and what He accomplished for us, to the fact that we can never live up to God's standard, and that we must rely on Him and His grace and mercy and to live our new life.

Of course I believe Jesus fulfilled all of the requirements of the Old, for us to be able to live in the New.

Is it everlasting for Israel in unbelief? Or even the world in unbelief? I would think so. But, not for the body of Christ. We have Spirit to lead.

 

[dcontroversal]

Thanks, I came under tremendous fire once, by someone trying to convince me I was condemned using Hebrews, so I had to understand for myself and the Holy Spirit He does guide and lead in those dark moments ....all glory to Him always!

The bible is clear......Jesus paid the entire human sin debt on the cross......the Holy Spirit only convicts of sin because they do not believe ON JESUS....the condemnation of the law has been nailed to the cross....and ALL who genuinely believe in JESUS are eternally forgiven, saved, justified, sanctified positionally and sealed with the Spirit of promise.....regardless of those who deny this and seek to save themselves.....

 

[Limey410v2]

Why do you call me FranC?
What do you think my name is?

I'll call you whatever you want me to call you! But I can only go on the information that is presented to me, and that would be the name you chose for CC.

 

[Magenta]

Sin is washed clean and believers experiance peace like a washing over,,, and boom peace of mind...

I believe we have missing gospels and there was more than one adam ,,,,,, hence thr 4 species of humans.....

antarcites nothern.............southernites.........western....ites and of cause easternites....asian..

hahaa asian white african european.. = 4 adams end of story.. missing Gospels..

As in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[Limey410v2]

Is it everlasting for Israel in unbelief? Or even the world in unbelief? I would think so. But, not for the body of Christ. We have Spirit to lead.

Thank God!

 

[Magenta]

If someone repeatedly lies to you, and they call themselves
an honest person, should you also call them an honest person?

 

[stonesoffire]

Thank God!

amen. I read your previous post and saw you saying the same thing. Am so behind on this thread.

 

[JIMBO43]

As in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

all in adam where also under the father... move on sister..