Not By Works

[Stephen63]

Originally Posted by Stephen63

There are no one-time events, quoted or implied in the Bible. It doesn't exist. G777 quotes that from a hypergrace site, which is against the rules.




So, the truth came out that it is indeed slander and not true,. This is the very reason to not interact with these types because we know the purpose of it and as Paul says to "mark them and avoid them" Rom. 16: 17

We pray for them and ask the Father to reveal the beauty , love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ to them.

If we were in a proper church setting - the true leadership would have dealt with this behavior - but we are not, so we must do what Paul says to stay away from interacting with them as nothing good comes from it.

Unfortunately until there is repentance which only God can grant - we need to not interact with these types of people that continue to exhibit deceitfulness and cause divisions by. 1 Cor. 15:33 and Hebrews 12:15 can happen to any of us.

In the meantime we will let them slander and be deceitful all they want because we can't stop them but I will not be responding to this behavior anymore. The Lord is our defense and He has all of our backs.

Guard your heart brethren!

All is well. The Lord will be faithful to all of us! We have a great salvation in Him.

I openly admitted I was wrong.

How long you gonna beat this dead horse?

Think you can squeeze anything else outta it?

 

[Stephen63]

2Thess 2: 1Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

 

[UnderGrace]

Originally Posted by Stephen63

There are no one-time events, quoted or implied in the Bible. It doesn't exist. G777 quotes that from a hypergrace site, which is against the rules.

Being born again spiritually is a one time event. One physical birth, one spiritual birth...Jesus said so.

 

[Stephen63]

Being born again spiritually is a one time event. One physical birth, one spiritual birth...Jesus said so.

Sorry, dear, we weren't talking about salvation.

As usual, you don't know what's going on.

 

[PennEd]

Mr. thief on the cross believed when he realized, & believed till he died.

NO ONE can judge how many times he exercised his faith before he died, because scripture doesn't say.

Saying Mr. thief on the cross believed only one time is like saying there was only three wise men who visited baby Jesus.

Maybe you should apologize to everyone on the BDF for not studying your Bible. It would do ALL of our hearts good to see you FOR ONCE, humble yourself.

Stephen, I will gladly humble myself. Whether I am right or whether I am wrong on various issues like the ones discussed here is completely secondary to the fact that YOU are my brother in Christ. You trust in the Blood of Jesus Christ to wash away your sin. As do I, AND Bruce. So I love you both Stephen.

Further, I think you are right in saying that Bruce's posts have taken a slightly harsher tone of late. Frankly, I'm surprised it has taken this long for his patience to wear thin, when day after day he is verbally assaulted and demeaned by many here.

For a year and a half he has displayed the kind of love and patience I pray to God to attain.

But think Stephen of the power YOU possess! Just imagine if you were to display love and grace to those that you disagree with on issues here. YOU have the power to change the whole attitude and direction of the BDF.

Actually every ONE of us here has that power. But to show others that the love of Christ burns in you, I'd implore you as your brother in Him to use that power!

May God Bless you and your family.

 

[stonesoffire]

2Thess 2: 1Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. 2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

You sure this is 2thess 2:1?

 

[maverich]

Paul calls them saints and faithful because they are one spirit with Christ. It is a description of who they are because of Christ in them.

What you are trying to do is "back-load" the gospel and make it into "works saves us again".

Paul is saying to those that "heard" the gospel message and believed that they are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

True biblical belief is of the heart - not in the head or mind. God looks on the heart - man look on the outward appearance.

Getting "saved" is simple but it was not cheap - it cost our Lord His life and blood to obtain eternal redemption. Heb. 9:12

Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10 [/SUP] for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The process is simple too.

1) we hear the message of Christ - the gospel of our salvation in Him

2) we believe the message from our hearts

3) we were sealed with the Holy Spirit

( Jesus said in John 14:16 that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever - now was Jesus lying or is he like a "bait and switch" car salesman that has "fine print" which He doesn't talk about )

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, = 1)

the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, = 2)

you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, = 3)

you were sealed = aorist indicative tense / passive voice = a one time event in the past that stays in effect.

Passive voice = the sealing was not done by us but by an outside force - the Holy Spirit Himself.

Is Jesus a liar? He said that the Holy Spirit will be in you forever. John 14:16

If Jesus lied to us about that and about the truth that everyone who comes to Him - He will not cast out - can we really trust Him? I say Jesus is NOT a liar and that He can be trusted.

May our Father richly bless you, May He make his light to shine on you. You are blessed and highly favored.
I found Grace after 20 years of church my wife and i discovered Grace when I discovered thru a still small voice that HE LOVES ME

 

[UnderGrace]

Actually it is the exact opposite, I wish I did not know what was going on, simple bible truth, of the complete work of the

cross and the faithfulness of God, passed down through the ages by a small remnant of believers, denied at every turn of these

pages saying we have to do our part because God is not able or willing to do what he Has promised.

Sorry, dear, we weren't talking about salvation.

As usual, you don't know what's going on.

 

[dcontroversal]

"[FONT=&quot]You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24
[/FONT]

You should study the word context....then go to Romans where Paul said that BEFORE GOD a man is justified by faith WITHOUT WORKS.....

again the word is CONTEXT

 

[dcontroversal]

Folks think this is about two christian groups fighting over their doctrine..... not true.

One group isn't christian at all, but fallen away to false doctrine.

This is why this side constantly fights & bashes others..... such fruit doesn't belong to God.

A careful reading of your posts will reveal the latter point of your post.....as much as the next....there is a word for that...

 

[Stephen63]

You sure this is 2thess 2:1?

It's not.(enbarrassed) It's 1 John 5:1.

Whew! Been a long day!

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey Bruce, I think Abraham believed God well before Isaac. God told him to move himself and all his household to Canaan.
He did.

Interesting that he took his sweet old time obeying God, as he first just moved upriver a couple hundred miles to Haran.

Well before he was circumcised and probably 25 to 35 or more years before he offered Isaac......

 

[BillG]

Mr. thief on the cross believed when he realized, & believed till he died.

NO ONE can judge how many times he exercised his faith before he died, because scripture doesn't say.

Saying Mr. thief on the cross believed only one time is like saying there was only three wise men who visited baby Jesus.

Maybe you should apologize to everyone on the BDF for not studying your Bible. It would do ALL of our hearts good to see you FOR ONCE, humble yourself.

Stephen you are falling foul of yourself. I understand you are passionate about what you believe, just like others are.
I understand that you are passionate about doctrine that leads to Jesus, just like others are.
Your following quote to me is not humble.
You say it's not about two Christian groups and the say the other group isn't Christian at all and this side fights and bashes the other. I certainly hope I don't fall foul of that, and I am sure you hope you don't either. But to say to someone apologise to everyone for not studying your bible and humble yourself is fighting and bashing.

I have no wish to cause angst but should posting my observations

Folks think this is about two christian groups fighting over their doctrine..... not true.

One group isn't christian at all, but fallen away to false doctrine.

This is why this side constantly fights & bashes others..... such fruit doesn't belong to God.

Anyway With regards to the thief on the cross.

We read

Mark 15:31-32


31 Likewise the chief priests also, mocking among themselves with the scribes, said, “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. 32 Let the Christ, the King of Israel, descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe.”
Even those who were crucified with Him reviled Him.

Then we read

Luke 23:39-40


39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?

Its intersting.
I had a conversation with someone who believes baptism saves. No baptism no salvation.
Do I asked him about the thief on the cross and he said he would have been baptised by John and quoted the following verses

Mark 1:4-5


4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.

His emphasis was on ALL OF THE LAND OF JUDEA, therefore the thief would have been baptised, therefore saved.

I don't know what your thoughts are on this, and I'm would like to hear them.

My thoughts were if a man had been baptised what on earth was he doing hanging on the cross? Obviously not truly repentant.
So he wasn't actually baptised at all.

That being the case then he only exercised faith when on the cross and not before that.

You say no one could judge how many times he exercised faith before he died but we know he died on the cross.

Surely at one point in time he exercised his faith, maybe he was baptised, the baptism of repentance and afterwards he went astray, I am just surmising here.

But the fact is on the cross he asked Jesus to remember me when you come into your kingdom.

Whether he placed faith in Jesus before hanging on the cross or on the cross what we do know is that it was a saving faith.
If the faith that saved him was before he hung on the cross given what we know about him that faith did save him.

Jesus said "Today you will be with me in paradise"

Not looking for an argument, just giving my thoughts.

Ps do,you believe baptism saves?

 

[dcontroversal]

There is in fact a glaringly obvious, classic, INDISPUTABLE example of just that. A ONE TIME EVENT DISPLAYING FAITH THAT RESULTED IN SALVATION.

Our brother and friend, Mr. thief on the cross.

Maybe you should apologize to your brother Bruce. It would do ALL of our hearts good to see you FOR ONCE, humble yourself.

Good luck with that request.....he already declared that those who believe in grace dia faith salvation to not be Christian......

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen and Amen......when one Believes On the Truth of His LOVE
He wants us to believe what He has said is true. He is Love!

He is our Living Water

It gives power through His Spirit to leave the old covenant behind and walk a new walk, based on the love that He sheds abroad in our hearts, we no longer have to gaze at sin or the LAW only HIS beauty and we are motivated to have our life in Him so that our works naturally flow from Him....NOT US ........to show all mankind that He is LOVE!!!!

May our Father richly bless you, May He make his light to shine on you. You are blessed and highly favored.
I found Grace after 20 years of church my wife and i discovered Grace when I discovered thru a still small voice that HE LOVES ME

 

[Stephen63]

Stephen you are falling foul of yourself. I understand you are passionate about what you believe, just like others are.
I understand that you are passionate about doctrine that leads to Jesus, just like others are.
Your following quote to me is not humble.
You say it's not about two Christian groups and the say the other group isn't Christian at all and this side fights and bashes the other. I certainly hope I don't fall foul of that, and I am sure you hope you don't either. But to say to someone apologise to everyone for not studying your bible and humble yourself is fighting and bashing.

I have no wish to cause angst but should posting my observations




Anyway With regards to the thief on the cross.

We read

Mark 15:31-32


31 Likewise the chief priests also, mocking among themselves with the scribes, said, “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. 32 Let the Christ, the King of Israel, descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe.”
Even those who were crucified with Him reviled Him.

Then we read

Luke 23:39-40


39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?

Its intersting.
I had a conversation with someone who believes baptism saves. No baptism no salvation.
Do I asked him about the thief on the cross and he said he would have been baptised by John and quoted the following verses

Mark 1:4-5


4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 Then all the land of Judea, and those from Jerusalem, went out to him and were all baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.

His emphasis was on ALL OF THE LAND OF JUDEA, therefore the thief would have been baptised, therefore saved.

I don't know what your thoughts are on this, and I'm would like to hear them.

My thoughts were if a man had been baptised what on earth was he doing hanging on the cross? Obviously not truly repentant.
So he wasn't actually baptised at all.

That being the case then he only exercised faith when on the cross and not before that.

You say no one could judge how many times he exercised faith before he died but we know he died on the cross.

Surely at one point in time he exercised his faith, maybe he was baptised, the baptism of repentance and afterwards he went astray, I am just surmising here.

But the fact is on the cross he asked Jesus to remember me when you come into your kingdom.

Whether he placed faith in Jesus before hanging on the cross or on the cross what we do know is that it was a saving faith.
If the faith that saved him was before he hung on the cross given what we know about him that faith did save him.

Jesus said "Today you will be with me in paradise"

Not looking for an argument, just giving my thoughts.

Ps do,you believe baptism saves?

I noticed you said nothing about PennEd..... I copied his words.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

At Bogadile: "It is rather strange that the Apostles forgot to tell us how much turning from sin"

Peter, Acts 2:38 - Repent.
Paul, Acts 20:21, repentance toward God
Hebrews 6:1 - Repentance
Revelation 3:19 - repent
2 Timothy 2:25,26 - grant them repentance
2 Corinthians 7:9,10 - sorrowful to the point of repentance
Matthew 3:8 - bear fruit in keeping with repentance
Acts 26:20 - turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance
First word out of John the Baptist' mouth: repent
First word out of Jesus' mouth when beginning to preach: repent

That does not mean turn from sin, it means change our thinking, and it means much more than what many in the church want t push.

 

[Limey410v2]

We create works BECAUSE we are continuing in the righteousness we received when we first believed

Abiding in Christ is characterized by a life of ever increasing holiness. If you do not have that life, yet you claim to be in Christ, John says you are a liar. The person who does not have a characteristically righteous life was either never born again to begin with, or they stopped believing somewhere along the line. Either way, works are the evidence of whether or not you really became a new person in salvation when you confessed Christ and whether you are continuing to be a new person by the Holy Spirit in a continuing salvation.

People who don't have the walk, even just a little, to match the talk have a faith that can not save them on the Day of Judgment. They either never had that faith, or they lost it somewhere along the line:

"3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:3-4 NASB)

"14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" (James 2:14 NASB)

Church, stop letting the church give you false comfort in a works-less salvation. Do what the Bible says. Make your calling and election sure--start acting like what you say you are. If you can't do that, then be born again for real this time.

If it is a work given to us from God, anything WE create is for our own self indulgence.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We thank God for grace. We're saved by grace through faith, not of works. But ... a faith that does not have corresponding works is a dead faith. We're not saved by works. Works are the fruit, not the root. But an absence of corresponding works of faithfulness and obedience indicates a dead, inoperative faith.

NO one is teaching otherwise my friend, if people say some are, they are not being honest.

true faith works, it is not stagnant,

 

[stonesoffire]

It's not.(enbarrassed) It's 1 John 5:1.

Whew! Been a long day!

No problem. None is perfect. But, we are in the perfect One.