Losing Salvation ?!

[J0Hnnatcc3]

Just curious you proclaim people cannot lose their salvation. So if you personally decided to take the mark of the beast do you actually believe you are still saved

Hey man.

Those who accept the mark of the second beast (working with the first) actually were never in "The Book of Life."

Revelation 13:8
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.


If you really wanted to oppose OSAS or Calvanism, you'd probly have a better shot quoting MT 24:24 or Rom 11:22

 

[Cee]

Hey man.

Those who accept the mark of the second beast (working with the first) actually were never in "The Book of Life."

Revelation 13:8
and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.


If you really wanted to oppose OSAS or Calvanism, you'd probly have a better shot quoting MT 24:24 or Rom 11:22

Let me save him the trouble.

Matt 24:24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

"If it were possible". Therefore not possible.

Next one...

Romans 11:22 Therefore, consider God’s kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen but God’s kindness toward you—if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

At first glance this appears to be talking about "you" as in the reader, but it's not. Read Romans 11 carefully. It's discussing the election of Gentiles vs Jews. If you GENTILES forget the kindness of God toward you, well then you can be cut off just like the natural grafted ones were through their UNBELIEF.

 

[dcontroversal]

Let me save him the trouble.

Matt 24:24 24 False messiahs[a] and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

"If it were possible". Therefore not possible.

Next one...

Romans 11:22 Therefore, consider God’s kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen but God’s kindness toward you—if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

At first glance this appears to be talking about "you" as in the reader, but it's not. Read Romans 11 carefully. It's discussing the election of Gentiles vs Jews. If you GENTILES forget the kindness of God toward you, well then you can be cut off just like the natural grafted ones were through their UNBELIEF.

AMEN.....glad to see another sword defending the eternal security found in faith for a genuine believer........I was going to hammer it, but figured someone would........

 

[PrynceNY]

Hey man. Those who accept the mark of the second beast (working with the first) actually were never in "The Book of Life." Revelation 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. If you really wanted to oppose OSAS or Calvanism, you'd probly have a better shot quoting MT 24:24 or Rom 11:22

Well people will believe whatever they desire i dont bother opposing those who believe in OSAS when God will handle it himself

 

[Cee]

Well people will believe whatever they desire i dont bother opposing those who believe in OSAS when God will handle it himself

Hi Prynce,

What empowers believers to live holy lives? Are they new creations in Christ or do they do it in their own power?

 

[J0Hnnatcc3]

Let me save him the trouble.

Matt 24:24 False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

"If it were possible". Therefore not possible.

Next one...

Romans 11:22 Therefore, consider God’s kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen but God’s kindness toward you—if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

At first glance this appears to be talking about "you" as in the reader, but it's not. Read Romans 11 carefully. It's discussing the election of Gentiles vs Jews. If you GENTILES forget the kindness of God toward you, well then you can be cut off just like the natural grafted ones were through their UNBELIEF.

Right. See how when people look at verses like these, without considering their context and application, they are likely to misunderstand them.

Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

 

[Cee]

There's a far deeper issue here, it's called unbelief in the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. And it is a tradition that tries to neuter the power of Christ in us. And it could be called an antichrist spirit. Because "Christ" is the word for Anointing. And when we forget that Christ is with us, in us, and He was raised from the dead (therefore so we will be) we are living anti to His message and ministry.

 

[PrynceNY]

Only through Christ, however i rarely have seen anyone on the forums speak about backslidding or how the scriptures talk about how it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. Just primarily people saying regardless of what we do we are saved which i mean if people wanna believe that thats on them

 

[J0Hnnatcc3]

Only through Christ, however i rarely have seen anyone on the forums speak about backslidding or how the scriptures talk about how it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. Just primarily people saying regardless of what we do we are saved which i mean if people wanna believe that thats on them

Yes, I thought you might quote 2 Peter 2.

Peter writes that it would have been better for them not to have known, not better for them not to have been saved.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, I thought you might quote 2 Peter 2.

Peter writes that it would have been better for them not to have known, not better for them not to have been saved.

AMEN.......I cannot get over the simple promises of JESUS ad words concerning HIS WORK in us...

Jesus will LOSE NONE that the Father has given him
JESUS is the beginner of our FAITH
JESUS will FINISH our FAITH
JESUS WILL compete that GOOD work "of faith" he began IN US
HE will NEVER leave us or forsake us
NOTHING can separate us from the LOVE of Christ
HE saves to the UTTERMOST<--look that word up
We are KEPT by the POWER of GOD
etc....

Not to mention the words salvation, eternal, everlasting, justified, sealed, sanctified, born of incorruptible seed, born again, ETC. applied unto ALL who believe....

There is so much that must be denied, rejected, swept under the table, twisted etc. to teach that one can lose salvation and or give up the faith to the point of being lost AGAIN........

 

[DJ2]

Nothing can separate us from the Christ. Nothing.

Even apostates can not be separated from Christ?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Who is Hebrews 6 adressing to ?

1. The same Hebrew Christians for whom the whole epistle was written.

2. All Christians in all ages

3. It is not about losing salvation but a warning about becoming apostates

But most people fail to note this conclusion: But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. (Heb 6:9)

 

[Limey410v2]

"If you could lose your salvation, you would." John MacArthur

None of us are good enough, smart enough, strong enough, to keep ourselves from falling. We can't fall because we are IN Christ.

Thank you. Have a good night. Don't forget to tip your waiter/waitress. Don't foget to lock up when you leave.

Amen, amen and amen. The study of scripture shows us the true character of God, and He is NOT playing a shell game!

 

[Cee]

Only through Christ, however i rarely have seen anyone on the forums speak about backslidding or how the scriptures talk about how it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. Just primarily people saying regardless of what we do we are saved which i mean if people wanna believe that thats on them

Awesome only through Christ, we are in total agreement. If we don't believe it's through Christ, according to Paul we fall from grace, right? Galatians.

Now let's discuss the Scripture you tossed in there:

2 Peter 2:19They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

Please notice:
1. This is talking about freedom.
2. Notice those who are teaching this are slaves. They are ensnared. Trapped. Prisoners.
3. Now if they were made free and THEN entangled again, they are EVEN more a slave.
4. Thus, the LAST state is worse than the first.
5. Jesus said something similar, when one demon goes and returns with friends, if it isn't fully occupied.

Check out the context:
v17: Talking about false teachers (not saved)
v18-20: Those duped by false teachers' teaching.

It would have been better for them to not know the way of freedom than to be ensnared again. The idea I believe Peter is striving at here is don't be a prisoner! Don't be imprisoned by lusts of the flesh. And I am in TOTAL agreement.

Life here on this Earth and the consequences of sin will be far worse than if you weren't a believer. God will turn up the heat if you don't repent. Your conscience will condemn you.

As a Christian have you ever sinned and ignored the conviction of God? I have it. It sucks.

David said something along the lines of it feels like his bones were hollow. Like an empty shell.

This idea that sinning is somehow a good thing is the real issue here. Sin isn't good and while it might SEEM fun, it actually is death and destruction with a pretty bow. But once your EYES are opened, you're free of it's lure, so don't get twisted inside of it again.

But because so many people don't understand the GOODNESS of God they think this only warning them of the "time to come". This is so blasphemous to me because God is really good, knowing Him, being free, and living a life of love, joy, and peace are really GOOD things.

Sure, we get persecuted, but that's all in the name of love. And it reminds us of how Jesus was persecuted in the name of love for us while we were still sinners. He chased us even though we didn't love Him back, we ridiculed and insult His children, but He kept loving us and we broke. And when we called Him Lord, we were set free.

Let's not go back a life of bondage, death, destruction, anxiousness, worry, jealousy, lust, or any of that other completely filthy way of life. Let's not be those who return back to the filth.

Further, Some also say this passage is about unbelievers which is also possible, but there are clearly 2 different points of view that should not be used to retranslate simple Scriptures that Jesus gave us that if we believe we ARE saved - forever.

 

[Limey410v2]

Wanna know what else John MacArthur said? He said those who take the mark can still be saved. So goodluck following him

Hopefully we are all only following Christ.

And people can say something that is both correct and wrong in the same sentence. Choosing to listen to the correct thing someone says is called discernment.

 

[PrynceNY]

Awesome only through Christ, we are in total agreement. If we don't believe it's through Christ, according to Paul we fall from grace, right? Galatians. Now let's discuss the Scripture you tossed in there: 2 Peter 2:19They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. Please notice: 1. This is talking about freedom. 2. Notice those who are teaching this are slaves. They are ensnared. Trapped. Prisoners. 3. Now if they were made free and THEN entangled again, they are EVEN more a slave. 4. Thus, the LAST state is worse than the first. 5. Jesus said something similar, when one demon goes and returns with friends, if it isn't fully occupied. Check out the context: v17: Talking about false teachers (not saved) v18-20: Those duped by false teachers' teaching. It would have been better for them to not know the way of freedom than to be ensnared again. The idea I believe Peter is striving at here is don't be a prisoner! Don't be imprisoned by lusts of the flesh. And I am in TOTAL agreement. Life here on this Earth and the consequences of sin will be far worse than if you weren't a believer. God will turn up the heat if you don't repent. Your conscience will condemn you. As a Christian have you ever sinned and ignored the conviction of God? I have it. It sucks. David said something along the lines of it feels like his bones were hollow. Like an empty shell. This idea that sinning is somehow a good thing is the real issue here. Sin isn't good and while it might SEEM fun, it actually is death and destruction with a pretty bow. But once your EYES are opened, you're free of it's lure, so don't get twisted inside of it again. But because so many people don't understand the GOODNESS of God they think this only warning them of the "time to come". This is so blasphemous to me because God is really good, knowing Him, being free, and living a life of love, joy, and peace are really GOOD things. Sure, we get persecuted, but that's all in the name of love. And it reminds us of how Jesus was persecuted in the name of love for us while we were still sinners. He chased us even though we didn't love Him back, we ridiculed and insult His children, but He kept loving us and we broke. And when we called Him Lord, we were set free. Let's not go back a life of bondage, death, destruction, anxiousness, worry, jealousy, lust, or any of that other completely filthy way of life. Let's not be those who return back to the filth. Further, Some also say this passage is about unbelievers which is also possible, but there are clearly 2 different points of view that should not be used to retranslate simple Scriptures that Jesus gave us that if we believe we ARE saved.

Regardless of my disagreement with OSAS, I hope those who follow it does enter the kindom and are not among those saying Lord, Lord because that would be horrific.

 

[dcontroversal]

Regardless of my disagreement with OSAS, I hope those who follow it does enter the kindom and are not among those saying Lord, Lord because that would be horrific.

A careful reading of your referenced scripture will reveal those who trusted into works to get them in...not those who trusted into faith to get them in......

 

[Cee]

Regardless of my disagreement with OSAS, I hope those who follow it does enter the kindom and are not among those saying Lord, Lord because that would be horrific.

Amen my friend. And you bring up another Scripture.

The Lord, Lord, one.

Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Please note:
1. They call Him Lord
2. But they point to their works
3. Not His work
4. And He says I never you

Jesus doesn't say, I'm sorry you believed in OSAS therefore you're not saved anymore. He says, I never knew you, you were never saved. Not you fell of the wagon along the way and stopped believing you could lose your salvation.

I get it, the idea that people argue you can't lose your salvation is that we do it, because we want to live lives in complete and utter sin. We want all the drugs, all the debauchery, all the death and destruction we can handle. But, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who wants or believes that who knows the Lord. No, it's usually those who think you can lose your salvation that struggle the most because they haven't truly received they are free.

No, I do it for a completely different reason. I do it to EMPOWER people to be Holy. I do it so Christ might be their full focus. That might realize HOW forgiven they are and truly understand how LOVED they are. And when THIS happens they become an encounter of His love and freedom on the Earth. We ARE new creations in Christ and ALL of creation is waiting for us to be revealed. So they might know the living God as we know Him. Fully and completely set free to love, to be joyful, to be thankful always, rejoicing in Him, and showing people the glory of the One we proclaim. We are His witnesses on the Earth empowered by the Spirit of God to love well and live pure. Not because we desire to be saved, but because we ARE saved. And HE transformed and is transforming us.

 

[PrynceNY]

A careful reading of your referenced scripture will reveal those who trusted into works to get them in...not those who trusted into faith to get them in......

Believe what you desire i just hope for your sake you wont be saying lord lord either as much as you preach osas on the forums

 

[PrynceNY]

Amen my friend. And you bring up another Scripture. The Lord, Lord, one. Matt 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ Please note: 1. They call Him Lord 2. But they point to their works 3. Not His work 4. And He says I never you Jesus doesn't say, I'm sorry you believed in OSAS therefore you're not saved anymore. He says, I never knew you, you were never saved. Not you fell of the wagon along the way and stopped believing you could lose your salvation. I get it, the idea that people argue you can't lose your salvation is that we do it, because we want to live lives in complete and utter sin. We want all the drugs, all the debauchery, all the death and destruction we can handle. But, I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who wants or believes that who knows the Lord. No, it's usually those who think you can lose your salvation that struggle the most because they haven't truly received they are free. No, I do it for a completely different reason. I do it to EMPOWER people to be Holy. I do it so Christ might be their full focus. That might realize HOW forgiven they are and truly understand how LOVED they are. And when THIS happens they become an encounter of His love and freedom on the Earth. We ARE new creations in Christ and ALL of creation is waiting for us to be revealed. So they might know the living God as we know Him. Fully and completely set free to love, to be joyful, to be thankful always, rejoicing in Him, and showing people the glory of the One we proclaim. We are His witnesses on the Earth empowered by the Spirit of God to love well and live pure. Not because we desire to be saved, but because we ARE saved. And HE transformed and is transforming us.

On the contrary i've found those who don't follow OSAS, walk in more obedience to the lord and reflect holy lives. The danger of teaching OSAS to a new believer is they will take it as im saved any way so i dont have to be as obedient. But again people can believe in what they desire