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They live more religious lives, but how many of them truly know how to love? I challenge your benchmarks. And this idea that, "I'm saved anyway" so I don't have to be obedient is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. You don't have to be obedient, you GET to be obedient. God desires cheerful from the heart obedience and only the goodness and kindness of God leads to that kind of repentance.
How do we please God? Faith.
Does what you're teaching here produce more or less faith?
Remember when looking at a section scripture.. guidelines to get it in the right context..
- Who is talking to whom
- What is the occasion?
- What is the subject?
- What time in history is it?
For example-- there is a verse that says 'God heareth not sinners'
So-- the novice-- will then say-- oh! God won't hear a sinner!!
Guess what?
The person that said 'God heareth not sinners' was not a saved man himself! It wasn't Jesus saying this! It was a fallen, sinful man who didn't have the right idea about God.
So think about time, place, who is talking to whom, subject, occasion when looking at Hebrews 6.
It isn't about losing eternal life. Earlier chapter context isn't about that.
- Who is talking to whom
- What is the occasion?
- What is the subject?
- What time in history is it?
For example-- there is a verse that says 'God heareth not sinners'
So-- the novice-- will then say-- oh! God won't hear a sinner!!
Guess what?
The person that said 'God heareth not sinners' was not a saved man himself! It wasn't Jesus saying this! It was a fallen, sinful man who didn't have the right idea about God.
So think about time, place, who is talking to whom, subject, occasion when looking at Hebrews 6.
It isn't about losing eternal life. Earlier chapter context isn't about that.
I am fairly confident the bible teaches that the just shall live by faith<--Not works
and everyone I know who believes in OSAS also teaches that fruit and or works are a by product or result of the faith and salvation that one already possesses in Christ....
This whole misnomer that we say you can live like the "debil" Bobby Bouche is a farce that no one I know pushes.....
The Lord said, Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. So yes God desires for his people to be obedient. If you love me obey my commandments. Yes we obey out of love for the lord. However i dont know where you got "You dont have to be obedient" When obedience is what the lord expects. Be holy for i am holy
Yes we get to be obedient. The Lord's command is this: Love one another as I have loved you. He says you will know who are My disciples by the love they show for one another. He compares those who are Sheep and Goats by their love for one another. Which is really their love for Him.
The Lord said BE Holy as I am Holy. In Christ you are Holy, thats why you have Holy Spirit. As a result of BEING Holy you live holy, but you don't live holy to try to be holy. You are holy because Christ is Holy and you're joined with Him.
Yes we are to be obedient to Him, as His children this is the mark of a son those who do the will of their Father, those who are lead by the Spirit are the sons of God, but a renewed mind that understands the goodness and kindness of God goes from I "have to be obedient" to "I get to be obedient" He is the creator of the universe, He is so good, so kind, and so loving. His ways are far better than our ways, we get to follow Him. We get to love people and introduce them to Him. We get to see His good news (gospel) cover the Earth with our lives.
If no one says "What?..are you saying people can just go and sin all we want now because of grace?" ..if no one says that - then you are not preaching the gospel of the grace of Christ.
No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached.
He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.
The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.
Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord.
But sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.
We don't water down the gospel because some don't understand it and think that we are free to sin now. New creations in Christ want to live free from sin because it is in our true nature now.
We need to learn how to walk by the spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.
Only the accurate hearing of Christ and what He has already done for us will bring about true transformation as our minds are renewed to the realities of us being in Christ and He in us. It is by grace through faith we are saved to begin with and this is how we are to live the rest of the time while in this earthen vessel.
Make no mistake about it - the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.
The answer to shall we sin is in the understanding of Romans chapters 6-8.
No one is saying to go out and sin all you want now because of grace but people should be accusing you of saying that if you are really preaching the same gospel that Paul preached.
He was continuously slandered with this same accusation. In 4x times alone in Romans Paul had to come against those that were accusing Paul of being antinomian.
The grace of God teaches us how to live godly in this present world as Titus 2:11-12.
Sin is stupid and against our new nature in Christ which is created in righteousness and holiness. Sin is deceitful and will destroy us on this earth as well as those we love and ruins our witness for the Lord.
But sin does not take away our eternal life in Christ. Our spirit is safe in Christ because we are in Him and it is His finished work that brings eternal salvation to us.
We don't water down the gospel because some don't understand it and think that we are free to sin now. New creations in Christ want to live free from sin because it is in our true nature now.
We need to learn how to walk by the spirit so that we don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.
Only the accurate hearing of Christ and what He has already done for us will bring about true transformation as our minds are renewed to the realities of us being in Christ and He in us. It is by grace through faith we are saved to begin with and this is how we are to live the rest of the time while in this earthen vessel.
Make no mistake about it - the gospel of the grace of Christ is scandalous.
The answer to shall we sin is in the understanding of Romans chapters 6-8.
Amen
The gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ being accurately preached and taught will provide the proper nutrients for the Christian to walk in Him.
In "it - the gospel of Christ Himself" is the power for salvation and true transformation by the Spirit of God.
Knowing that we are completely forgiven because of Christ's sacrifice makes us want to run to the Father for grace to walk free of sinning because we know that they are forgiven.
That does not make us want to go out and sin all we want as the carnal/religious mind thinks and accuses others of wanting to do?
It does the complete opposite. Jesus said "He who is forgiven much - loves much." It wants us to grow in the grace and knowledge of God and this is pleasing to Him. We have a new nature now.
We are a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.
Living by the flesh does not stop making us a new creation in Christ. It makes us deceived by sin and distorts our view of the Lord's love and grace towards us , others and ourselves and will bring some sort of destruction/death in this life on earth.
Take up shooting heroin in our arms and the reality of this truth will be evident quickly.
As we learn to walk by the spirit instead of the flesh - then we experience God's kind of life in our lives.
I have found the very same thing happening in my life. The more I see Christ and what He has done - and the more I agree with His work ( confess - means to say the same thing ) - the more He becomes manifested in my life and the things of the flesh just have fallen off like dead leaves on a branch.
Transformation is really the emerging new man that is in Christ being manifested in our bodies while we are here on this earth.
This transformation of what already is in us in Christ in our new creation ( It is not called a "new evolution" ) can be seen by man as our minds get renewed to the truth of Christ's work for us and in us. Rom. 12:2
We are simply "being" who we already are when we "put on Christ".
The new man in Christ is like the invisible man - when he put clothes on, people could then see him. We put on Christ and people see the new man in Christ manifested and God gets glorified.
This all happens by grace through faith in what Christ has already done and we participate in it with Him for it is God who is at work in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. He will be faithful to us. Phil. 2:13
We are transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:17-18 What do you see when you look into a mirror? We are joined as one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17
It's in knowing our "union" with the Lord as one and in "communing" with the Lord because of this union where the real Christian life is lived and it all starts knowing that Jesus has taken away the sin of the world and that "in Him" we have redemption - the forgiveness of sins.
Good conversation, thanks for keeping it civil.
God bless you bro, may you continue to be lead by the Spirit of God.
S
Sully
Guest
They had the Holy Spirit which left them upon eating the fruit and falling into sin. Thanks be to Jesus Christ now we have been restored.
John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
who so ever believe/ recieve Jesus/Gospel Will be save
Matt. 13
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
person in this verse recieve the word so he is save
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Seem to me this verse Said:
and because of tribulation he lost his salvation
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
who so ever believe/ recieve Jesus/Gospel Will be save
Matt. 13
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
person in this verse recieve the word so he is save
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Seem to me this verse Said:
and because of tribulation he lost his salvation
S
Sully
Guest
Good question, I'd say yes regarding we are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto salvation. But that's just my conjecture which is baseless on all the facts obviously.