Not By Works

[preacher4truth]

faith comes from hearing the word... faith starts with the individual

No, you're incorrect.

Faith is external, stemming from God; Romans 10:17. It does not start with the individual as you falsely claim, as it is a gift granted by God; Romans 12:3, Philippians 1:29. This faith is, being from God, not man, the same power that raised Christ from the dead; Ephesians 1:19. Therefore it does not start with man, but from God, and in this you greatly and gravely err.

and i will not call them a true believer at this stage.

That's OK, God does this, and He doesn't require your approval.

You're acting way above your pay grade in that your practice is to determine who you believe to be lost and who you believe to be saved, yet at the same time you yourself preach a false gospel of works.

 

[JIMBO43]

its funny how Gods Word is considred dogma when it is so clear isnt it? How is Jesus said repent and obey My Word......He is then teaching dogma or additions to salvation when He is the One offering salvation, but if it doesnt agree with unconditional salvation taught by the newest gog pastor then the person saying hey look Jesus said this.....they are a pharisee.

the thing that defined pharisees was thier refusal to believe Jesus word, they had no room for what He was saying because they had it all figured out already. Not everyine feels that way bro, some appreciate the truth. but ahead of time you know that people will reject , insult and accuse you because you do believe the Lords Word.

john 8:31-38 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?34Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. 37I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. 38I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

john 8:12-13 "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
john 8:51-52 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.

it seems as if the pharisees refused to believe Jesus words on the matter when he mentioned Keep my word its eternal Life. and im pretty sure Jesus said many times repent and obey my commands. dont worry when people treat you like they treated Jesus bro , its not you they cant accept its the Word of God

and amen bro

 

[JIMBO43]

No, you're incorrect.

Faith is external, stemming from God; Romans 10:17. It does not start with the individual as you falsely claim, as it is a gift granted by God; Romans 12:3, Philippians 1:29. This faith is, being from God, not man, the same power that raised Christ from the dead; Ephesians 1:19. Therefore it does not start with man, but from God, and in this you greatly and gravely err.



That's OK, God does this, and He doesn't require your approval.

You're acting way above your pay grade in that your practice is to determine who you believe to be lost and who you believe to be saved, yet at the same time you yourself preach a false gospel of works.

you sound quite God like your self to may i add


Romans 10:17English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[JIMBO43]

Disarming the enemy is living for the praise of God and not selfish ambitions such as for recognition. Have the impression that God purposely made the simplicity of Christ (walking in His Spirit), controversial so that we would not think we know and stop learning. We can learn from each other, when we acknowledge we don't know as we should. Those who have God working in them are Labourers with Him, involved in the work. Even Jesus said, "I can do nothing of myself but what I see the Father doing. If He then was powerless to take things in His hands before the resurrection when all power in heaven and earth was given to him, how much more should we be in submission to the Father of Spirits and Live.

After the Marriage break 16 years ago I fell into addiction and sin and saw how dead I was and felt Christians were missing it, that we did not have opportunity to rejoice; then the Lord told me: Because I Live you shall Live also. The Holy Spirit sets opportunities for us to Learn to walk in Love, patient and longsuffering with us. Those of you here who have accused one another to defend your point of view need to recognise it's your point of view your defending, God doesn't need our help, doesn't need to defend Himself. "Love does not insist on it's own way.

During the second world war the enemy caused Christians in Germany to fight against Christians. The time that the daily sacrifice was taken away and the abomination set up 2,300 days, approximately the length of the war. In 1944 Christmas eve Americans and Germans sang to the Lord together on the front lines, the beginning of the restoration of the daily sacrifice. The German army woke up from their deceit of being a superior God chosen nation and lost their motivation to fight except for the younger generation still in oblivion, military armament was given to the younger generation. The account of the enemy fighting against the Holy people, this includes Israel put to death as a nation, Daniel 8:23, There is one more world war described as a time of trouble such as never was, against Cristian and in my lifetime. 34 years ago, the Lord told me: Behold I am with you in a time of trouble such as never was and shall never be again." When I spoke this to someone else, he added: For it is coming upon all people as a testimony against them." I don't claim to know what I'm talking about, just sharing: we need to stop fighting among ourselves.

ok but should you need to prove you love some one ?

 

[preacher4truth]

you sound quite God like your self

You're being dismissive.

The Word is clear and you're in error which has been shown you. Why not just admit your erroneous claims in the face of Scripture?

Again, faith doesn't start with the individual as you've claimed, yet this is to be expected from you as according to your gospel it is nearly always about man and his abilities and rarely of God and His grace.

 

[JIMBO43]

Yeah. Yeah.
I know you really like me.
You just can't admit it because Magenta might get all bent out of shape...

lol you mean like if you pass my hate you tests ill love you ....

 

[Ariel82]

It's good not to count the Fruits of the Spirit as Works.

But just before Galatians 5:22, Paul is talking about what NOT to do. These are the deeds of the flesh:
The desire of the flesh is set AGAINST the desire of the spirit, the are in opposition to each other --- that you may NOT DO the things that you please.
Galatians 5:17

The deeds of the flesh are:
immorality
impurity
sensuality
idolatry
sorcery
enmites (hate)
strife
jealousy
anger (outbursts)
disputes
dissentions
factions
envying
drunkenness
carousing

Paul says that those who practice these things WILL NOT inherit the kingdome of God. And He's speaking to CHRISTIANS!
PAUL is talking about works --- which ones NOT to do.

Then he goes on to talk about what we SHOULD DO:

The FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT IS:
Love
joy
peace
patience
kindness
goodness
faithfulness
gentleness
self-control

Galatians 5:22-24


"If we LIVE by the spirit, let us also WALK by the spirit"
Galatians 5:25

Take a look at all the fruit... Those are all "works" that we do.
Walking by the spirit means that our INNER LIFE will be demonstrated OUTWARDLY.

Otherwise, what's the use of having the gift???

If you study the N.T. properly and with no pre-conceived notions, you find that works is all over the place.

In Galatians 3 Paul is speaking about how we are no longer slaves to the Law, but are children of God.
Paul, does, however, go on to say that we are to be as God would want us to be.
He exhorts the believers to act accordingly.
He NEVER says that FAITH ALONE is necessary.
Even Paul tells us that we must WALK as we believe.
THIS is works. DOING what God would want us to do.

It's an easy concept once you get over the terrible "works" word.

The fruit of the Spirit is NOT called the works of the Spirit for a reason.

Neither is works of the flesh the same as works of the law.
.if you would read the Bible without your preconceived notions you would see there is a distinction made for a reason.

Here I will highlight some verses you seem to like to skip in your reading of Galatians in order to make works necessary according the the Gospel of Fran.
*****

6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
****

1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected bya the flesh? 4Did you sufferb so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
****
10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
****
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
*****
4You are severed from Christ, you who would be justifieda by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

You twist the Bible to fit your theology that works are required to stay saved.

Faith is all you need to become a child of God.

Then God works in you to produce fruit by teaching you how to walk with Him.

On your walk with God, He may bless you to do good works for others or he may not. You may be the person receiving the good works done by others.

It's all in God's hands.

If you see an opportunity to do good. Pray and then do it.

Why you do good works is MORE IMPORTANT than outward actions.

You can do good works outwardly that are just filthy rags if you think they earn or maintain your salvation.

Good works are only truly good if they are done because it is God's will and for His glory alone....not because you expect payment or punishment, but because you know God's love and want to share it with others.

If you don't understand that I will keep you in prayer, but won't waste any more words in dialog with you.

 

[JIMBO43]

You're being dismissive.

The Word is clear and you're in error which has been shown you. Why not just admit your erroneous claims in the face of Scripture?

Again, faith doesn't start with the individual as you've claimed, yet this is to be expected from you as according to your gospel it is nearly always about man and his abilities and rarely of God and His grace.

romans 10:17 says diffrent

 

[JIMBO43]

The fruit of the Spirit is NOT called the works of the Spirit for a reason.

Neither is works of the flesh the same as works of the law.
.if you would read the Bible without your preconceived notions you would see there is a distinction made for a reason.

Here I will highlight some verses you seem to like to skip in your reading of Galatians in order to make works necessary according the the Gospel of Fran.
*****



You twist the Bible to fit your theology that works are required to stay saved.

Faith is all you need to become a child of God.

Then God works in you to produce fruit by teaching you how to walk with Him.

On your walk with God, He may bless you to do good works for others or he may not. You may be the person receiving the good works done by others.

It's all in God's hands.

If you see an opportunity to do good. Pray and then do it.

Why you do good works is MORE IMPORTANT than outward actions.

You can do good works outwardly that are just filthy rags if you think they earn or maintain your salvation.

Good works are only truly good if they are done because it is God's will and for His glory alone....not because you expect payment or punishment, but because you know God's love and want to share it with others.

If you don't understand that I will keep you in prayer, but won't waste any more words in dialog with you.

tut tut and she wished you a lovely sunday

 

[Ariel82]

i think the answer is to create are own sun... lols

I think the answer is to look for light in God's son.

 

[JIMBO43]

Just a couple of points to ponder.....

a. Have we not been bought with a price?

God will not do deals with satan.. we where boght for the prize of Gods son having to suffer... thats the only price if you want to call it that..

 

[JIMBO43]

OH YEAH...

oh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol..

 

[JIMBO43]

I think the answer is to look for light in God's son.

are you saying we cant create Gods work

 

[JIMBO43]

ARE WE WORTHY SERVANTS OF GOD?

Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS’.

.

amen amen and amen... Gods rewards for remaining faithful to him ... our works from individuals brought about rewards from the father..


so who can say we should not work for rewards but only expect them when he says

 

[JIMBO43]

This is the most amusing thread in the history of Christian forums.
I hope no one watching is taking any thing serious.
They really all love each other, or else they wouldn't be Christians, would they?

yup those who dont take the word seariously will often find stuff amusing..

 

[JIMBO43]

Originally Posted by FranC

Paul was taught by direct revelation.

CUTE.

JESUS DIDN'T NEED TEACHING OF ANY KIND.

When you have some doubt about anything... you go to what Jesus said.

Who hung on the cross, Paul or Jesus ??

If you study JESUS, you'll get your doctrine right.
He's the one who is going to judge you, NOT PAUL.

Scary, isn't it???...

Jesus said "be not afraid", so you're trying to scare people? Does this fall into the credit column of your "works"?

personaly i think its you who are scared because youve believed a martin luther dogma all your life..and your scared of change..

 

[JIMBO43]

I don't believe works are necessary to make you a child of God but is necessary to show God's love to the world.

so are saying this is a works we must do ?

 

[JIMBO43]

Exactly....and works do not save, keep saved, help with salvation, facilitate salvation, secure salvation, procure salvation, make one saved, lead to salvation, top off salvation, and or any other word of like caliber and order....it is faith and faith alone that saves a man eternally....ONCE for ALL.........any questions?

so you declared that faith alone saves welll you said it pal.. tell me will you have any change in this belief of yours... will you still stay this in 20000 pages more ? befor youve read the beliefs of those who disagree with you ??????????

 

[JIMBO43]

If I can see that the word of God is working in you by your words of Godly wisdom,knowledge, and understanding, then you are performing the works of the spirit,and not by worldly knowledge and wisdom as some do. This kind of work is what pleases God, and not the works of your hands.

so you know that you can tell them by there fruits..

but do you also know that is only being saved and not the done deal ?

 

[JIMBO43]

It is not all sunshine and rainbows. Sometimes it is necessary to show the
filth others are pushing through their falseness. It is ugly and distasteful.

what happend to the ginger cake here then,,