Not By Works

[FranC]

Fran's errors and blatant lies have been pointed out multiple times by numerous people, but she is too proud and stubborn to admit to any such thing. Instead she judges and slanders people in a way she has become accustomed to, and then constantly complains about people taking things personally.

No Magenta...

I don't complain about people taking things personally, because I don't post personal comments.

It's OTHERS who post personal things about ME.
Like, for instance, asking if I'm saved.
Asking if I know about the Holy Spirit.
And other such nonsense.

And YOU...
Just because a person DOES NOT AGREE with you, because you're wrong of course, does not make them a liar.

You should find out what a liar is. You've called many on this thread a liar.
Apparently you're accustomed to doing this.

I'm sure God is very pleased with you.
The kindness and love you show toward others is overwhelming.
Just like a Christian should be.
Instead of being safe and secure in your NON-CHRISTIANITY, you should make
an effort to find out what a REAL Christian acts like (and I'm not talking about me)
Yes. I know many of them.

I am happy that I've met many here who believe as I do that we are EXPECTED to act like our Master, Jesus.
We are to emulate His very life and nature to the best of our ability.

Maybe some day you'll learn how to do this.

 

[PHart]

Fran's errors and blatant lies have been pointed out multiple times by numerous people, but she is too proud and stubborn to admit to any such thing. Instead she judges and slanders people in a way she has become accustomed to, and then constantly complains about people taking things personally.

Actually, I see her being harassed and provoked by some very arrogant bullies. No names mentioned. I've meant to PM her to remind her she's dealing with demons that are being riled up in various people who post here. I've done more than a little 'cold call' style evangelizing and I'm well acquainted of what it looks and sounds like when a demon gets stirred up in a person to whom you're talking to about the things of God. And folks, she ain't one of them. It's the bullies in these on-line forums that are entertaining demons. Bullies who won't discuss doctrine but are here to forcefully press what they insist you are to only believe through the intimidation of determined, dogmatic rhetoric, and suppression of your right to speak.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think it's wonderful that we can all sit here and enjoy each other's company.
Praise the Lord and pass the pecan pie!

Too be honest.....regardless of the banter, sometimes heated discussions, scriptural sword play, arguments over the word and even the sometimes civil discussion......I enjoy this site and most threads.....these are just words on a page and most give as good as they get.......at the end of the day...the real heat is coming in the near future for anybody and everybody that names Jesus regardless of flavor.....

Pass the pie.......coconut crème or banana crème for me thanks.....especially hot "out da oven"

 

[PHart]

I think it's wonderful that we can all sit here and enjoy each other's company.
Praise the Lord and pass the pecan pie!

Didn't Horshack say that on Welcome Back Kotter once?

 

[Magenta]

Actually, I see her being harassed and provoked by some very arrogant bullies. No names mentioned. I've meant to PM her to remind her she's dealing with demons that are being riled up in various people who post here. I've done more than a little 'cold call' style evangelizing and I'm well acquainted of what it looks and sounds like when a demon gets stirred up in a person to whom you're talking to about the things of God. And folks, she ain't one of them. It's the bullies in these on-line forums that are entertaining demons. Bullies who won't discuss doctrine but are here to forcefully press what they insist you are to only believe through the intimidation of determined, dogmatic rhetoric, and suppression of your right to speak.

Of course people who have been bullied by Fran are going to disagree with you. People she has tried to provoke and whom she has mercilessly harassed will disagree with you, also. People who have witnessed her repeated hypocrisy will disagree with you. So they will disagree with you, too, when you attempt to defend the slanderer known as Fran and pretend she is above what she has been legitimately charged with. Fran refuses to admit when she is wrong though, and you are free to be as blind as she is if you wish

 

[PHart]

...even though we all had stated a saved child of God will bear fruit just that fruit/works do not keep saved...

If you believe this then why are you and others perpetuating this thread????? Nobody that I know of on the 'fruit in salvation' side of this argument in any way shape or form said works earn, and keep earning your salvation. So can we shut this horrible thread down........please? What's your beef?

 

[Cee]

Here's where I believe the error to be:

In our desire to see people do the good works of God we emphasize works unto salvation. Which is good and totally understandable, but unfortunately if handled incompletely it can also diminish the reality of the present power of God to transform hearts. Emphasizing works is good when it is understood as clearly declaring the work of God already done in us. Where it gets messy is when we think it has something to do with making us loving, righteous, or holy before God.

And here's why:

It His work in us that shows the world His gospel.
It His love for us that allows us to love one another.
It His forgiveness for us that empowers us to forgive others.
It is His grace in us that reveals Christ.
It is His Spirit that declares what we've been given in Christ.
It is by His stripes were are healed.
It is by His becoming poor that we have been made rich.
It is by His being broken that we have been made whole.
It is by His death that we have received life and life abundantly.
It is by His goodness. And His kindness. That we joyfully repent to His ways.

He is the cause. He is the driving force and power. He is the one who changes us, transforms us, leads us, guides us, teaches us, dwells with us, unifies us, and as we are "renewed in our minds, repent, and put off the old to put on the new" we declare the goodness of God with our lives.

And all of creation is eagerly awaiting to see Him in us.

I don't diminish holiness. No, I believe the true gospel is what empowers it.

C.

 

[LoveGodForever]

If you believe this then why are you and others perpetuating this thread????? Nobody that I know of on the 'fruit in salvation' side of this argument in any way shape or form said works earn, and keep earning your salvation. So can we shut this horrible thread down........please? What's your beef?

This is great ... we can come out of Babylon now?

Rev 18:2-4,
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

 

[PHart]

Here's where I believe the error to be:

In our desire to see people do the good works of God we emphasize works unto salvation. Which is totally understandable, but unfortunately handled incompletely it can also diminish the reality of the present power of God to transform hearts. Emphasizing works is good when it is understood as clearly declaring the work of God already done in us. Where it gets messy is when we think it has something to do with making us loving, righteous, or holy before God.

And here's why:

It His work in us that shows the world His gospel.
It His love for us that allows us to love one another.
It His forgiveness for us that empowers us to forgive others.
It is His grace in us that reveals Christ.
It is His Spirit that declares what we've been given in Christ.
It is by His stripes were are healed.
It is by His becoming poor that we have been made rich.
It is by His being broken that we have been made whole.
It is by His death that we have received life and life abundantly.
It is by His goodness. And His kindness. That we joyfully repent to His ways.

He is the cause. He is the driving force and power. He is the one who changes us, transforms us, leads us, guides us, teaches us, dwells with us, unifies us, and as we are "renewed in our minds, repent, and put off the old to put on the new" we declare the goodness of God with our lives.

And all of creation is eagerly awaiting to see Him in us.

I don't diminish holiness. No, I believe the true gospel is what empowers it.

C.

Good, then you agree that works are 'required' in salvation. Not because works somehow earn or keep earning our salvation, but because that's what salvation looks like in a person, more and more as they grow up into that salvation.

When I see defensiveness about works in salvation (not you, just whoever) that immediately sets off warning bells in me. This thread is so horrible because of the people who are demonstrating this defensiveness about works in salvation.

 

[LoveGodForever]

Here's where I believe the error to be:

In our desire to see people do the good works of God we emphasize works unto salvation. Which is totally understandable, but unfortunately handled incompletely it can also diminish the reality of the present power of God to transform hearts. Emphasizing works is good when it is understood as clearly declaring the work of God already done in us. Where it gets messy is when we think it has something to do with making us loving, righteous, or holy before God.

And here's why:

It His work in us that shows the world His gospel.
It His love for us that allows us to love one another.
It His forgiveness for us that empowers us to forgive others.
It is His grace in us that reveals Christ.
It is His Spirit that declares what we've been given in Christ.
It is by His stripes were are healed.
It is by His becoming poor that we have been made rich.
It is by His being broken that we have been made whole.
It is by His death that we have received life and life abundantly.
It is by His goodness. And His kindness. That we joyfully repent to His ways.

He is the cause. He is the driving force and power. He is the one who changes us, transforms us, leads us, guides us, teaches us, dwells with us, unifies us, and as we are "renewed in our minds, repent, and put off the old to put on the new" we declare the goodness of God with our lives.

And all of creation is eagerly awaiting to see Him in us.

I don't diminish holiness. No, I believe the true gospel is what empowers it.

C.

Hi Cee,

I like your post. I don't think anyone disagrees what what your saying though. It is true however sometimes people here from what I observe anyway sometimes push too far one way or the other. Perhaps this may be causing misunderstandings between people? At the end of the day we are all only saved by faith in God's Word end of story it is Jesus working in us. His Word in us as we believe His Word produced fruit. Faith without works is not faith at all it's dead.

God bless

 

[Cee]

I agree that faith produces fruit. And fruit produces works.

He is the Vine, we are His branches, And He is pruning us for fruitfulness.

Good, then you agree that works are 'required' in salvation. Not because works somehow earn or keep earning our salvation, but because that's what salvation looks like in a person, more and more as they grow up into that salvation.

When I see defensiveness about works in salvation (not you, just whoever) that immediately sets off warning bells in me. This thread is so horrible because of the people who are demonstrating this defensiveness about works in salvation.

 

[FranC]

Good, then you agree that works are 'required' in salvation. Not because works somehow earn or keep earning our salvation, but because that's what salvation looks like in a person, more and more as they grow up into that salvation.

When I see defensiveness about works in salvation (not you, just whoever) that immediately sets off warning bells in me. This thread is so horrible because of the people who are demonstrating this defensiveness about works in salvation.

I'm sorry to say that it goes beyond defensiveness.
Persons here who understand about how Jesus wants us to do good works have actually been
ACCUSED of not being spiritual Christians.

As if to be a "spiritual Christian" one has to NOT do good works, or deeds.
I find this rather horrifying.

 

[Cee]

Good, then you agree that works are 'required' in salvation. Not because works somehow earn or keep earning our salvation, but because that's what salvation looks like in a person, more and more as they grow up into that salvation.

When I see defensiveness about works in salvation (not you, just whoever) that immediately sets off warning bells in me. This thread is so horrible because of the people who are demonstrating this defensiveness about works in salvation.

I agree with everything you said until the bolded part. I don't personally see this, I see people who are zealous about their understanding and revelation of God. And it's beautiful. I don't see anyone saying we don't have good works after salvation. But if we are going to discuss good works, I think how we treat one another is a good example of what a "good work" looks like.

John 13:25 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

 

[Cee]

In regards to good works:

John 13:25 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

This Scripture is the most important one for us if we wish to reveal we are His disciples.

So let's discuss it:

How do we know experientially (from the heart) what love is? By His love for us.

And He expects us to love one another to the degree that we understand His love for ourselves.

Let's ask ourselves are we loving one another to the degree that we believe He loves us? If not, let's ask Holy Spirit to first prune ourselves before we try to remove specks in each other's eyeballs.

If we are going to preach the need for good works, let's reveal it ourselves. Or else we are simply a hypocrite. I do not desire to be one. He tells us that it is by our fruit that we shall see who truly believes what one is preaching.

 

[LoveGodForever]

I'm sorry to say that it goes beyond defensiveness.
Persons here who understand about how Jesus wants us to do good works have actually been
ACCUSED of not being spiritual Christians.

As if to be a "spiritual Christian" one has to NOT do good works, or deeds.
I find this rather horrifying.

Its ok FranC at least your not being called the AntiChrist practicing spiritual witchcraft and mind manipulation.

 

[FranC]

Its ok FranC at least your not being called the AntiChrist practicing spiritual witchcraft and mind manipulation.

LOL

Whoeva woulda thought I'd get a good laugh out of this thread!!!
Thanks !!

 

[Grace777x70]

I agree with everything you said until the bolded part. I don't personally see this, I see people who are zealous about their understanding and revelation of God. And it's beautiful. I don't see anyone saying we don't have good works after salvation. But if we are going to discuss good works, I think how we treat one another is a good example of what a "good work" looks like.

John 13:25 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

Well said!

Works are no more necessary to be saved then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are saved first by grace through faith when we heard the gospel message of Christ. Eph. 1:13

Then the fruit of His life which is in the new creation if given the proper nutrients will manifest in His good works being in and through us and people will see the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord for them.

Get his backwards and we create a religion of works for salvation and it is a distortion of the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

We need to be preaching and teaching Christ and Him crucified and we too were crucified with Him and our life is hidden with Christ in God now. Paul says to "set our minds on things above" - not on the things of the earth.

This whole "lose your salvation" religious nonsense is just a ploy from the enemy to keep us away from Christ Himself and all that He has already done for us in His finished work. The righteous shall live by faith.

Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ Himself. Rom. 10:17

 

[royalscot]

Actually, I see her being harassed and provoked by some very arrogant bullies. No names mentioned. I've meant to PM her to remind her she's dealing with demons that are being riled up in various people who post here. I've done more than a little 'cold call' style evangelizing and I'm well acquainted of what it looks and sounds like when a demon gets stirred up in a person to whom you're talking to about the things of God. And folks, she ain't one of them. It's the bullies in these on-line forums that are entertaining demons. Bullies who won't discuss doctrine but are here to forcefully press what they insist you are to only believe through the intimidation of determined, dogmatic rhetoric, and suppression of your right to speak.

and the weaping wall , and the wall of jerico ,were build with poor peoples money, yet can not prove, them selfs lairs , but is ok to call others liars, because they are to thick to understand there own verbal comments ,condemnation alway come in the form of slander,

Matthew 4: The Temptation of Jesus
1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.2 And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.3 And the tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread."4 But he answered, "It is written,
"'Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple6 and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,
"'He will command his angels concerning you,'
and
"'On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.'"
7 Jesus said to him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'"8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.9 And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written,
"'You shall worship the Lord your God
and him only shall you serve.'"
11 Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.


and said watch the house they build for them self, even though , the stones were here before they were born.

any person with twin accounts, can like there own posts, and not be call a troll. you work out, there pie chart inside a 45 degree angle. even propaganda of a star shape badge , have fell for propaganda of the people,yet to be paid like judus , for given up your rite to smell the true rat , before he met death, is the joy of no wall, before you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good, then you agree that works are 'required' in salvation. Not because works somehow earn or keep earning our salvation, but because that's what salvation looks like in a person, more and more as they grow up into that salvation.

When I see defensiveness about works in salvation (not you, just whoever) that immediately sets off warning bells in me. This thread is so horrible because of the people who are demonstrating this defensiveness about works in salvation.

If works are required "in" salvation, they are required "for" salvation. There is no difference,

this should set f warning bells in anyone.

 

[PHart]

Well said!

Works are no more necessary to be saved then Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

We are saved first by grace through faith when we heard the gospel message of Christ. Eph. 1:13

Then the fruit of His life which is in the new creation if given the proper nutrients will manifest in His good works being in and through us and people will see the love and grace of our loving Father and Lord for them.

Get his backwards and we create a religion of works for salvation and it is a distortion of the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ.

We need to be preaching and teaching Christ and Him crucified and we too were crucified with Him and our life is hidden with Christ in God now. Paul says to "set our minds on things above" - not on the things of the earth.

This whole "lose your salvation" religious nonsense is just a ploy from the enemy to keep us away from Christ Himself and all that He has already done for us in His finished work. The righteous shall live by faith.

Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ Himself. Rom. 10:17

Why do you always hear the argument as 'you must work to earn and to continue to earn your salvation', instead of what is actually being said? Are you too proud to admit you did not understand the argument from the beginning and so you continue to misunderstand it instead of admitting you've been hearing it wrong?

So which is it? Are you going to admit you did not properly understand the argument, or, are you going to choose to continue to not understand the argument? Which is it?

There will be no peace in this thread until you start giving the courtesy of properly understanding the argument you are resisting.