Losing Salvation ?!

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PHart

Guest
That is how David discovered justification by faith apart from works. A murderer is what David used to be.

Nope, David was called a man after Gods heart when haws a child in the fields, he was chosen by God then, David Nderstd justfication by faith better than you do, he proved that in high s confession in the psalms, when understood sacrifice and burnt offering God did not desire.
And he didn't know the blessed of the man whose righteousness is given by faith in God apart from works (Romans 4:6-8)until he was guilty of murder. He found out then that only through the faith that Abraham had could he be counted righteous and not have to endure the just penalty of death for having murdered.


Actually it is you who have been thought wrong,

james made a statement of fact, if you commit the smallest sin, your as guilty as if you commuted the largest sin, when it comes to eternity and out standing we all stand condemned, not just the murderer,
Lol, no, I'm not guilt of literally murdering someone if I steal an apple. Really, I'm not, lol. That's not what James or Jesus is saying.
But since salvation is based on perfection (which is why we need Christ's perfection) I am guilty of having not kept the full standard for justification (the law) if I violate even a single part of it. Understand?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,178
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What you are not entitled to do is condemn.

But you are certainly entitled to judge a person to be an unbeliever (Matthew 18:17, Matthwe 7:20).
do not judge means just that. I ( and others ) do not care about your opinions of what the Bible says. we care about the words.

and one should NOT change Scripture. this what you are attempting to do with your little spins.....
 
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PHart

Guest
do not judge means just that. I ( and others ) do not care about your opinions of what the Bible says. we care about the words.

and one should NOT change Scripture. this what you are attempting to do with your little spins.....
When you can understand how it is that we can judge people's fruit, yet not judge people, then you will understand the difference between condemning someone and simply judging someone and recognizing they do not belong to God, as John says those who are characterized by sin do not belong to God.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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You got to keep in mind,every one must keep in mind that Jesus went down to the pits of hell and preached the gospel,and all that believed was saved. everybody, the living and dead got a taste of the gospel of Jesus Christ. He left no soul out.
 
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PHart

Guest
You got to keep in mind,every one must keep in mind that Jesus went down to the pits of hell and preached the gospel,and all that believed was saved. everybody, the living and dead got a taste of the gospel of Jesus Christ. He left no soul out.
I do not believe in Universalism. I do not believe that all people are saved.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
And he didn't know the blessed of the man whose righteousness is given by faith in God apart from works (Romans 4:6-8)until he was guilty of murder. He found out then that only through the faith that Abraham had could he be counted righteous and not have to endure the just penalty of death for having murdered.


Lol, no, I'm not guilt of literally murdering someone if I steal an apple. Really, I'm not, lol. That's not what James or Jesus is saying.
But since salvation is based on perfection (which is why we need Christ's perfection) I am guilty of having not kept the full standard for justification (the law) if I violate even a single part of it. Understand?
where do you come up with this stuff? I mean really?

david understood the law could not save him, thus he understood grace, murder was not his first sin,

and yes, if you steel, in gods eyes you are just as guilty as a murderer, that's your problem, like the Pharisee, you think because you do not commit certain sins, your ok, you will never understand grace until you understand your guilt,

You will never understand security until you understand condemnation, and why we are condemned.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You got to keep in mind,every one must keep in mind that Jesus went down to the pits of hell and preached the gospel,and all that believed was saved. everybody, the living and dead got a taste of the gospel of Jesus Christ. He left no soul out.
No one was ever sav d after they physically died

when he went t preach, shared the truth t them, the lost were still lost, their fate had just been sealed, the saved were still saved, their salvation was just completed,

the lost stayed in hades, the saved entered paradise,
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,178
6,547
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When you can understand how it is that we can judge people's fruit, yet not judge people, then you will understand the difference between condemning someone and simply judging someone and recognizing they do not belong to God, as John says those who are characterized by sin do not belong to God.
um, see I do not think I am " better " than anyone else. and, in my experience , a " holier than thou " attitude is what is behind thinking that Jesus commanded us to be fruit inspectors.

oh, and just in case you have not been reminded lately, you still sin as does every human on earth, believer or not.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Then you don't believe Jesus when he said he went down to hell to preach then. You just called him a liar.man must live by every word that proceed out of the mouth of God.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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Preaching brings salvation in hell and on earth. the purpose of preaching is to save souls. period.
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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you cant say that. that is like showing a hamburger to a hungry person and not giving them any. he did not tease.
 
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PHart

Guest
where do you come up with this stuff? I mean really?

david understood the law could not save him, thus he understood grace, murder was not his first sin,

and yes, if you steel, in gods eyes you are just as guilty as a murderer, that's your problem, like the Pharisee, you think because you do not commit certain sins, your ok, you will never understand grace until you understand your guilt,

You will never understand security until you understand condemnation, and why we are condemned.
Why are you people all about being PC about judging until you want to judge someone, lol?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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It's all in the definitions.

Can you LOSE your salvation? No way.

Can you TURN AWAY from your salvation? Absolutely - and it will be like you never had it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
It's all in the definitions.

Can you LOSE your salvation? No way.

Can you TURN AWAY from your salvation? Absolutely - and it will be like you never had it.
thats because they you never had it,

as john said, they departed from us (another way to say turned away from us) because they were never of us, if they were of us, they never would have departed (turned away)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Why are you people all about being PC about judging until you want to judge someone, lol?
God judges I can not judge anyone

I can share the word though, and the word says if you break the least of the law, your guilty of it all, and Under a curse, it says it in Deuteronomy27, in Galatians 3 and in James tells us also,

if you steel, your as guilty as if you committed murder, those are not my words, they are Gods.
 
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PHart

Guest
God judges I can not judge anyone

I can share the word though, and the word says if you break the least of the law, your guilty of it all, and Under a curse, it says it in Deuteronomy27, in Galatians 3 and in James tells us also,

if you steel, your as guilty as if you committed murder, those are not my words, they are Gods.
So be clear: Am I guilty of having literally murdered someone, or literally kidnapping someone when I steal an apple? Or are you just not willing to come right out and say you agree with me that the guilt of 'all of the law' is in regard to not having kept it all?
 
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PHart

Guest
thats because they you never had it,

as john said, they departed from us (another way to say turned away from us) because they were never of us, if they were of us, they never would have departed (turned away)
Someday, somewhere, someone will be able to explain that if this is the correct interpretation of 1 John 2:19 why John then warns the saved people he is telling this to to not also depart but to continue in the word they first heard and are abiding in (vs. 24).

If it's true that John meant only 'not really' saved people fall away then why does he feel the need for these people whom he himself says are saved to be told to not fall away but rather continue in the word they first heard? Simple question.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Great observation and question.

I would answer it like this:

Because he believes they are saved. And he is renewing their mind to who they are in Christ.

Exactly the same reason this was written:

Hebrews 6:9 But even if we speak like this, beloved, we are persuaded of better things concerning you, and things accompanying salvation.

Someday, somewhere, someone will be able to explain that if this is the correct interpretation of 1 John 2:19 why John then warns the saved people he is telling this to to not also depart but to continue in the word they first heard and are abiding in (vs. 24).

If it's true that John meant only 'not really' saved people fall away then why does he feel the need for these people whom he himself says are saved to be told to not fall away but rather continue in the word they first heard? Simple question.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Oh, you are going to address the point I brought up in my post, right?

Why is it impossible for the unbeliever who never believed who rejects the gospel to later repent and accept Jesus, per Hebrews 6:4-6. If that's what many Christians say the passage means, why do unbelievers only get one crack at repentance?

Obviously, that interpretation of the passage is absurd. It's obviously not about people who never believed not getting a second chance to come to Christ after passing up the one and only chance God gives them. It makes much more sense that the author is talking to and about his audience--saved, sanctified true believers being tempted to abandon the justification they have received in Christ and going back to a so-called justification by the law. There is no return possible for the person who tramples on the blood of Christ that sanctified them (unbelievers have not been sanctified by the blood of Jesus) by going back to the law, or anything else, for justification.
I have used this analogy before regarding Hebrews 6. Maybe you have seen it maybe you haven't.

If you have ever been on a wine tasting tour you know that you go from vineyard to vineyard TASTING various wines. You smell the wine, you swill the samples around your mouth, and you ultimately spew them out. You can do this all day long WITHOUT getting the effects (intoxication) of the wine. You can be AROUND those who DID imbibe and see the intoxicating results of actually imbibing INSTEAD of merely TASTING but you yourself won't get intoxicated by spewing the wine.

I believe THIS is what the writer of Hebrews is trying to relate. There are those that hear the Gospel. Maybe repeatedly. They have TASTED the Lord's goodness, and maybe even seen Him work in their life. They may have associated for a time with those that HAVE imbibed (accepted) Jesus, and seen Him work in THEIR lives. but THEY NEVER accepted Him. Just tasted Him AND SPEWED HIM OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS. Rejecting that Jesus is the ONLY Way, or that they need a Savior at all.
Judas is a prime example of this type of person. He saw the works of Jesus, His goodness, His miracles, and yet NEVER believed Jesus was who He said He was.

Interesting that this is somewhat what Jesus will do to those wishy washy, lukewarm, in name only Christians. SPEW THEM OUT OF HIS MOUTH.

So once we CONSUME wine and get the effects (intoxication) we may vomit the wine out, BUT the EFFECTS (intoxication) don't go away.

In the same way, when we accept Jesus, and are SEALED with the Holy Spirit, we will NEVER lose the effects (eternal life) though other bad things may indeed happen to us by not following His direction.

Think on this. Don't give a kneejerk reaction. Pray on it. You DO NOT have to go through your walk fearing that at some point you will no longer believe in Him. Take rest in Him. His yoke is light.