Not By Works

eternally-gratefull · Aug 1, 2017

Nope. it is called a hope. If we have no hope of eternal life. Hope of salvation, Hope of an inheritance which is set aside for us, Hope of the seal given to us, Hope of the fact God says we passed from life to death and are no longer condemned.

We have no faith.

what you call a check Box. God calls an inheritance.

JIMBO43 · Aug 1, 2017

royalscot said:

OH I SEE SO IF ITS YOUR POINT FIRST THEN IM A LIAR AND A THIEF OF YOUR POINTS,,, ??? is that how it is coz thats how your mentality seems TOTALY AND UTTERLY

Meggido · Aug 1, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Titus 2.11-15 says you are very wrong....
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

The problem you have with us is something we know you cannot come to terms with...we understand Grace keeps us and gives us power over SIN and we do not let SIN entangle our minds, trip us, make us stumble or fall and consume us all the time as you guys do...we understand our imputed righteousness is a position not our personal performance....we are not sinless perfectionists, nope we sin and some times they are doozies, but we have crucified our flesh along with its passions....we have put the old man in the ground and left him there, because he was dead and buried with Christ, because there is not any truth to 2 old dogs fighting for supremacy in a Born again believer....if there is...you need to stop fighting and get saved...our new man Spirit is made perfect, and we renew our minds to the truth of God's word, that I am not a sinner saved by grace anymore, I am sin-forgiven saint that will still sin....and we do not frustrate the grace of God by suggesting it gives us a license , hall pass, permission to sin....we have not attained perfection by any means, but we do not look back at the old things, we forget them and we apprehend what we see in front of us and we press towards the mark of the high calling Jesus Christ.....

Grace is far more than a license to sit back and be passive and hoping you got it right...and warring with yourself.....grace catapults you into action....to advance the kingdom and have the assurance that you are who God says youa re and allows you to move into spiritual maturity to be who he also called you to be....

never again try disregard us as lascivious again...ever....Titus 2.11-15 rebukes you soundly and completely...

you are in walking in a 2 inch puddle and proclaiming how great you are and most of us are in river waters you have to swim in.....and truly letting the current take us where he needs us to go....

You place your faith into your faith....and always have....my faith is instinctive reaction to having face to face relationship with him and knowing him...

go lay the foundation with people that need it....on the solid rock we stand all other ground is shifting and sinking sand... At the end of the day....this whole thread seems to be nothing more than an juvenile experiment by you and few others trying to convince us of your own salvation....why is that? especially if you have the confidence and assurance you all state...

JIMBO43 · Aug 1, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

funny thing you seem to think you cant lose your inheritance so how come you have hope ?

eternally-gratefull · Aug 1, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

If it is based on any merit whatsoever, it is not of grace it is of works. It is not a gift, it is a reward. It is not of faith, it is of doing.

The only people that get cut off are people that have the word in their hands, eternal life in their grasp, the truth in their minds, and end up walking away from it, because they never received it in faith and assurance, they just tried it out for a bit to see if they liked it, and since they never experienced it truly, decided their were better things to grasp.

royalscot · Aug 1, 2017

tourist said:

the people in the bible, done what god told them to do. you either take that, as fact or fiction.
without reading a bible. they demonstrated this, if you read there account, even when they did not understand ,why, they did what they did. so when did faith, know all the answers. if it did not understand, what changes were being made. (70 ad)

how do you know, what changes god, whats to make in your life. without being in contact with him.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 1, 2017

Meggido said:

No, Matt 25 will only catch wanna be christian's unaware. A true child of God bears fruit, He does not sit and do nothing, People who do that, as jame's said, have no faith,

How can one be saved if they have no faith?

JIMBO43 · Aug 1, 2017

Meggido said:

Titus 2.11-15 says you are very wrong....
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, [SUP]12 [/SUP]instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, [SUP]13 [/SUP]looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

The problem you have with us is something we know you cannot come to terms with...we understand Grace keeps us and gives us power over SIN and we do not let SIN entangle our minds, trip us, make us stumble or fall and consume us all the time as you guys do...we understand our imputed righteousness is a position not our personal performance....we are not sinless perfectionists, nope we sin and some times they are doozies, but we have crucified our flesh along with its passions....we have put the old man in the ground and left him there, because he was dead and buried with Christ, because there is not any truth to 2 old dogs fighting for supremacy in a Born again believer....if there is...you need to stop fighting and get saved...our new man Spirit is made perfect, and we renew our minds to the truth of God's word, that I am not a sinner saved by grace anymore, I am sin-forgiven saint that will still sin....and we do not frustrate the grace of God by suggesting it gives us a license , hall pass, permission to sin....we have not attained perfection by any means, but we do not look back at the old things, we forget them and we apprehend what we see in front of us and we press towards the mark of the high calling Jesus Christ.....

Grace is far more than a license to sit back and be passive and hoping you got it right...and warring with yourself.....grace catapults you into action....to advance the kingdom and have the assurance that you are who God says youa re and allows you to move into spiritual maturity to be who he also called you to be....

never again try disregard us as lascivious again...ever....Titus 2.11-15 rebukes you soundly and completely...

you are in walking in a 2 inch puddle and proclaiming how great you are and most of us are in river waters you have to swim in.....and truly letting the current take us where he needs us to go....

You place your faith into your faith....and always have....my faith is instinctive reaction to having face to face relationship with him and knowing him...

go lay the foundation with people that need it....on the solid rock we stand all other ground is shifting and sinking sand... At the end of the day....this whole thread seems to be nothing more than an juvenile experiment by you and few others trying to convince us of your own salvation....why is that? especially if you have the confidence and assurance you all state...

amen to be zelouse maybe this is a flower too.. i cant tell you how zealous for good deeds i have wanted to be everyday i thank God for this gift..

garee · Aug 1, 2017

It would seem you would be in agreement with those in the Hebrews 6 boat. Better things accompany salvation called redemption.

In other words your confidence is in your ownself by having (usurping) the faith of Christ(the faith of God) as the work of Christ (Christ’s work of faith as his labor of love ) as that which does work in the believer, to both will and do His good pleasure .Just as that pefect work of Christ's faith it worked in and therfore with both Abraham and Rehab.Again you having it in respect to your own self. Scripture identfies that kind of faith of towards God as blasphemy.

Many questions. How many times does Christ have to pay the “eternal” wage of sin (there is no temporal wage). Does he command us to … go do a good work and say, amen no eternal wage? Does doing a good work pay the eternal wage of a sin that has been performed by you. Does the good work you perform cast the eternal wage as far as East is from the West never to be brought to mind evermore?

Or is it you do not sin and if you slip God turns around and looks away? Are you a sinner as a transgressor of the law, seeing there is no partial sinner who lives in a body of sin (decay)

1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The contempt should turn you towards Him the one who has grace why would you turn to your own self as if you were the cause of repenting (comforting yourself ) If he who has no form does not first turn you to hear Him no man could repent.

Making rentance into a dead work you could offer towards him is turning things upside down

He does all of the work of salvation to include drawing us back into the flock. It is like the prophets said turn me and I shall be turned then after being turned we can ease ourselves called repenting . No voice, no easement. Hear the voice hear easement

When you do shrink before him in helplessness when being defeated by sin. Do you crucify him over and over each time by offering dead works, coming from a dead faith as that which you offer towards him as if it was not from Him?

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

What are dead works that comes from a dead faith? Are they offering our good works towards God and call that a source of grace, us being gracious to Him? . Are they something we who are dead in our trespasses and sins can perform or a work of faith that he performs in us towrds us . Can’t serve two masters .

If you are trusting in your good works as a source of Grace you have done despite to the Spirit of Grace .It is according to His labor of love alone. Seeking it after it as a sign something you perform is what the apostate Jews (outward of the flesh) sought after it made the cross without effect. Its self righteousness is designed to perform .Christ said they already have their reward of pride. How would a person spend pride wisely?

royalscot · Aug 1, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

history mark a date, in the bible if you studded it.

a writer can only date a page, when he wrote anything on that paper,

losing ones life ,to regain it, was not done for god.

thats the funny part, why he had to conquer death, in the first place,

PHart · Aug 1, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

A lot of Christians seem to be oblivious to the fact that grace is not for nuthin'. It is given on the basis of trust in Christ. But it seems that so many Christians think just because grace is not given on the basis of work that it is given on the basis of nothing at all, and therefore, the reasoning goes, you can't lose it. But they don't realize grace is conditioned on trust in Christ:

4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:4-5 NIV)

Trust in Christ is the condition for justification. Stop trusting in Christ and you lose that justification. That's not a works gospel. As we can see in the above passage, trust is CONTRASTED with works for obtaining justification. But the twisted OSAS message says if you have to trust/believe to stay saved then you are guilty of trusting in your own works to be saved. That's not what Paul says.

So it's clear--trusting in Christ as the condition for not losing salvation hardly amounts to one working for his salvation. Quite the opposite in fact. Paul said so. Trust is not a work that does not justify that it somehow makes you guilty of relating to God through a works gospel.

JIMBO43 · Aug 1, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

sound like you have your salvation worked out tell me have you trembled when you worked this out ?

Ok so can i go and blast my head of for the next 50 years dabble in cocaine and all that jazz and still expect salvation ?

eternally-gratefull · Aug 1, 2017

Meggido said:

and again I would agree with you 100 percent, and this does not refute anything i have said. In fact it supports it.

It is God who redeemes us, it is God who purifies us, God will never fail. And since it is grace which brings us salvation, not our merited works.It is all based on God,

I also said it is grace which teaches us to be righteous, and how it is the means of growth and not performance.

So once again, Because of your utter disregard for anything I say, and in your attempt to attack me, You again slander me and attack me based on a false knowledge of what I actually believe.

I suggest you either start listening to me, or give up your war..

More slander, Where have I ever said I let sin trip me up. This is nothing but a feeble attempt to try to justify your thought process. for it is doing nothing else. You can not judge me, if you do not even know where I come from. all it does is make yourself look bad.

If you are not going to take the time to understand what people believe, you need to just stop. for all you are doing is openly sinning, The bible says you shall not bear false witness, if you do so, you are seen as a sinner, and judged by the law as guilty

Do not come in here trying to show people how you have made it, and how righteous you are, and how people you openly attack are in sin, When all you are doing is bearing false witness against them,

It is called being a hypocrite.

Again, and you called me one?

Like I have told a few other people. you need to look in the mirror.

PennEd · Aug 1, 2017

PHart said:

A lot of Christians seem to be oblivious to the fact that grace is not for nuthin'. It is given on the basis of trust in Christ. But it seems that so many Christians think just because grace is not given on the basis of work that it is given on the basis of nothing at all, and therefore, the reasoning goes, you can't lose it. But they don't realize grace is conditioned on trust in Christ:

4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:4-5 NIV)

Trust in Christ is the condition for justification. Stop trusting in Christ and you lose that justification. That's not a works gospel. As we can see in the above passage, trust is CONTRASTED with works for obtaining justification. But the twisted OSAS message says if you have to trust/believe to stay saved then you are guilty of trusting in your own works to be saved. That's not what Paul says.

So it's clear--trusting in Christ as the condition for not losing salvation hardly amounts to one working for his salvation. Quite the opposite in fact. Paul said so. Trust is not a work that does not justify that it somehow makes you guilty of relating to God through a works gospel.

Amazing how often you speak about what "a lot" of Christians believe in their heart!

Meggido · Aug 1, 2017

PHart said:

The Fear of the Lord is lost upon those who must constantly lay the foundations of elementary doctrines....eternal security removes the Fear of the Lord and replaces it with: Since God is Good.... I am also good....and I will be ok....

eternally-gratefull · Aug 1, 2017

PHart said:

Grace is given based on the work of Christ. It takes trust in Christ to recieve it.

if it can be lost, it is not unmerited, it is merited based on whatever a person has to do to maintian it ,or keep it, or keep from losing it, period.

It is not merited.

now. lets get off this OSAS kick You are blinded by this thing called osas, and it has you unable to listen to a word anyone else has to say.

Yoju want to talk about the gospel. lets talk. I am sick of talking about how works merit salvation and how OSAS people love sin. Both of which are not true. ..

JIMBO43 · Aug 1, 2017

royalscot said:

So tell me whast would have happend if God lost and commited sin in an earthly body ?

Tell me what would have happened if God wouldnt have born a saviour of the world.. or better still why did the seed had to be so far down the line from adam befor he could be born into this world..

The answer God knew he could defeat satan..

God is not a God of chances..

God knows what he is doing and what he is saying..

So when he says bare fruits perform faithfulness or be cut of he knows exactly what he is saying...

why is that so diffacult to understand

eternally-gratefull · Aug 1, 2017

JIMBO43 said:

Nope. God worked out my salvation. And he gave it to me because he loved me.

Now that I have it, Yes I tremble that I would do something which would prevent me from being a witness to God. I want, ike paul to be a light to the world. don't you?

royalscot · Aug 1, 2017

and for the record, the temple manuscripts were stolen from the jewish temple on more, that one occasion.

so there is a good chance, there was a copy of the torah , some ware. before 70 ad, given only a rabbi could read, from that script.

strange thing change, can open your eyes, when the truth sets you free.

JIMBO43 · Aug 1, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

hmmm so we are not to workout our salvation ? hmmm ok so what does this instruction mean then..2Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good pleasure.…

Perhaps you can show me diffrent ?

Not By Works

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